General Election 2019

[oldfrenchhorn]

The attitude of building inspectors both for the local authority and the LABC warranty scheme has changed dramatically since the Grenfell Tower tragedy. My new house that was basically finished in March but is still waiting for the LABC sign off because of new regulations on fire stopping in warm roof spaces. We may need to rip out a couple of walls to add the latest protection. The authorities also double checked the sizes of 'fire escape' windows on the first floor, which duly complied.

Surely bodies like BSI are the best testers for materials such as these.?

The trouble is that you now have a number of private testers, who under certain circumstances can take the word of the manufacturer that materials comply. The government has not done its job. Questions were asked in Westminster about the updating of the building regs. and the minister responsible was forced to admit that despite the revised ones due to be published six months earlier, work had not even begun. Two and a half years ago they were jolted into action so we thought, only to find out now that the process is some months away from completion. This government has spent billions on "smart motorways". They now say they are unsafe. Who is in charge? We are talking about making life safe for people, not having lunch with a consultant friend to find out if he would like a contract to advise.

 

[superhorns]

The trouble is that you now have a number of private testers, who under certain circumstances can take the word of the manufacturer that materials comply. The government has not done its job. Questions were asked in Westminster about the updating of the building regs. and the minister responsible was forced to admit that despite the revised ones due to be published six months earlier, work had not even begun. Two and a half years ago they were jolted into action so we thought, only to find out now that the process is some months away from completion. This government has spent billions on "smart motorways". They now say they are unsafe. Who is in charge? We are talking about making life safe for people, not having lunch with a consultant friend to find out if he would like a contract to advise.

Building regs on fire safety were updated in September, which is why I'm probably having belated problems with the new conditions to be satisfied.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Building regs on fire safety were updated in September, which is why I'm probably having belated problems with the new conditions to be satisfied.

You are talking about something different. What is not being addressed is the usage of new materials that are getting approval through a fragmented system of private testers. The material used on Grenfell was banned in many countries throughout the EU on any building above three stories. It came from the USA originally with general use certificates. Other countries tested it properly and banned its use. The UK didn't test it and accepted the USA certificate, or didn't look at the research from the other countries. This is something that will drag on for years in the hope that one day it might be forgotten. Meanwhile similar products, not exactly the same, but similar are being used. One of these went up in flames in Bolton, and it is lucky that no one else lost their life.

 

[superhorns]

You are talking about something different. What is not being addressed is the usage of new materials that are getting approval through a fragmented system of private testers. The material used on Grenfell was banned in many countries throughout the EU on any building above three stories. It came from the USA originally with general use certificates. Other countries tested it properly and banned its use. The UK didn't test it and accepted the USA certificate, or didn't look at the research from the other countries. This is something that will drag on for years in the hope that one day it might be forgotten. Meanwhile similar products, not exactly the same, but similar are being used. One of these went up in flames in Bolton, and it is lucky that no one else lost their life.

It is quite easy to insist on a British Standard to be applied by BSI in Hemel Hempstead. This could be superior to any EU standards currently used.

No, you claimed building regs had not been updated, which is certainly not true.

There is a knee jerk reaction at the moment with regulations suitable for high rise and new buildings using SIP type panels being wrongly used for traditional buildings such as my house. My dwelling already has a completion notice issued by the local authority as built safely, and in accordance with the architect and builder with 40 years experience. The only person asking for additional safeguards is a young Polish trainee working for LABC that is applying blanket conditions just to cover his back.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Roy Wilsher, chief of the National Fire Chiefs Council, said the fire "once again highlights how changes to building regulations need to be moved on at a much quicker pace".

Just what I have been saying. Trains, prisons, probation service, NHS , building control all have had chunks privatised with bad results. Just think yourself lucky that all the flights you have taken this year have been with European safety certificates and not left to a failing Grayling.

 

[superhorns]

As we face a general election and final act of Brexit this article puts a perspective on the so called differences currently being experienced in the UK. By comparison we are lucky to avoid much of what is happening on the continent.

Uncertainty, inequality, fragility: why France is a country at war with itself

 

[superhorns]

Roy Wilsher, chief of the National Fire Chiefs Council, said the fire "once again highlights how changes to building regulations need to be moved on at a much quicker pace".

Just what I have been saying. Trains, prisons, probation service, NHS , building control all have had chunks privatised with bad results. Just think yourself lucky that all the flights you have taken this year have been with European safety certificates and not left to a failing Grayling.

There is no doubt tragic mistakes were made by the building industry concentrating completely on the solving the insulation aspect to achieve new guidelines without sufficient protection for fire protection.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

"They are the emblem of a country that is at least as fractious and uneasy with itself as pre-Brexit Britain."

 

[superhorns]

"They are the emblem of a country that is at least as fractious and uneasy with itself as pre-Brexit Britain."

Maybe, but we do it without the violence.

 

[Hornet-Fez]

The problem is that St. Gobain, the manufacturer of Celotex, had falsified test results. Neither was the insulation as efficient as they claimed and nor was its flammability rating. Bear in mind that this particular material is already banned in Germany and the Netherlands from use in high rise buildings.
The existing Building Regulations are generally sufficient in themselves but are not adequately enforced. In the case of Grenfell Tower cheaper cladding was specified by the privately run KCTMO (taking over from the local authority as a result of Tory legislation) for the renovation in 2015/6.
The Grenfell Action Group had been raising concerns since an independent fire risk inspection in 2012 but were effectively gagged.

What it comes down to is: intransigence and neglect of upkeep by KCTMO; cost cutting during the renovation tender process by KCTMO resulting in inappropriate materials and installation; lack of support and worse for the residents by the local authority; cuts to the Emergency Services by successive governments; inadequate enforcement of the existing Building Regulations and, as has come to pass, the inadequacy of the government approved inspection regimen (which is why SH is having problems, it is a large house and LABC are having now to cover their backsides).

LABC are also hamstrung now by the US style "where there's blame there's a claim" litigators and having to check all the materials as a result of the Celotex scandal.

I deal with this daily as part of my job. I also have friends who were indirectly affected by the disaster, including one of my University alumni who lives on the estate and is herself a Building Surveyor... I phoned her and her adult son on the morning to make sure that they were okay.

And don't forget: de pfeffel, rees-mogg, et al, voted against legislation to ensure Homes Fit for Human Habitation. Fortunately the legislation was passed but the "landlords" didn't like it as it forces them to meet minimum standards rather than the Dickensian conditions they're happy to impose on people.

 

[superhorns]

The Tories are steaming ahead in the latest polls with a 17 point lead. Hopefully they have not peaked too soon. It seems the only way the opposition can now stop the Tories is with Labour joining the anti-Tory pact, which looks extremely unlikely at the moment.

 

[colognehornet]

The Tories are steaming ahead in the latest polls with a 17 point lead. Hopefully they have not peaked too soon. It seems the only way the opposition can now stop the Tories is with Labour joining the anti-Tory pact, which looks extremely unlikely at the moment.

Very sad state of affairs when Britain could give a majority to a man who tried to close down parliament illegally, has suppressed publication of Russian involvement in UK politics, and, to top it all is being investigated for electoral corruption. So one of your 2 heroes is set for a fall SH. What reason would Farage or Widdicombe have to lie about offers of peerages to Brexit candidates for stepping down ? So is Farage lying or are senior Tories close to number 10 guilty of corrupt electoral practices ?

 

[superhorns]

Very sad state of affairs when Britain could give a majority to a man who tried to close down parliament illegally, has suppressed publication of Russian involvement in UK politics, and, to top it all is being investigated for electoral corruption. So one of your 2 heroes is set for a fall SH. What reason would Farage or Widdicombe have to lie about offers of peerages to Brexit candidates for stepping down ? So is Farage lying or are senior Tories close to number 10 guilty of corrupt electoral practices ?

No idea.

But both Farage and Johnson will become winners with a continuation of a Tory government for the next five years and a completed Brexit, is it xmas or something?

 

[colognehornet]

No idea.

But both Farage and Johnson will become winners with a continuation of a Tory government for the next five years and a completed Brexit, is it xmas or something?

This could be the case if Farage is lying - but if he's not then it is a very serious charge, which if proved, would have unforeseen consequences. Maybe we should have neutral observers brought in to oversee our election, like in Togo or Somalia. Would you feel happy living under a government which is guilty of electoral fraud ?

 

[superhorns]

This could be the case if Farage is lying - but if he's not then it is a very serious charge, which if proved, would have unforeseen consequences. Maybe we should have neutral observers brought in to oversee our election, like in Togo or Somalia. Would you feel happy living under a government which is guilty of electoral fraud ?

I would be very happy with a Conservative government rather than one being run by the Marxist brothers.
It is ironic the remainer MPs delaying Brexit has probably not only ensured a Conservative government but is likely to produce a harder Brexit.

 

[colognehornet]

I would be very happy with a Conservative government rather than one being run by the Marxist brothers.
It is ironic the remainer MPs delaying Brexit has probably not only ensured a Conservative government but is likely to produce a harder Brexit.

What sort of answer is that to a direct question SH Would you feel happy living under a government which was guilty of electoral corruption ?

 

[superhorns]

What sort of answer is that to a direct question SH Would you feel happy living under a government which was guilty of electoral corruption ?

see previous answer

 

[superhorns]

In the latest Survation poll 47% thought Boris was the best person for PM, Corbyn polled 17%.

In another poll traditional Labour heartlands have indicated they would be switching to the Tories rather than vote Labour. This is the price to be paid for some anti democrats trying to ignore the referendum result.

 

[colognehornet]

see previous answer

So, if that is your answer then you are happy to live under a Conservative government regardless of the manner in which they got there - regardless of corruption, electoral fraud, and crime. I actually mentioned Togo and Somalia earlier - maybe you should go there because they have ideas of democracy which are similar to your own.

 

[colognehornet]

In the latest Survation poll 47% thought Boris was the best person for PM, Corbyn polled 17%.

In another poll traditional Labour heartlands have indicated they would be switching to the Tories rather than vote Labour. This is the price to be paid for some anti democrats trying to ignore the referendum result.

A bit late to be waffling on about democracy now SH.