In my post, I distinguish between Remainers and Remoaners, Stan, and acknowledge and greatly respect your position. It mirrors how I would have approached a Remain majority win. Leavers could have revisited the referendum vote in 10 or 20 years time, but until then, the issue was settled. So, now, we have to leave the EU (which includes out of the CU and SM and EU institutions) but in 10 or 20 years time, if there is a campaign to rejoin, then fine. This whole concept that if you vote for the Brexit Party, you are "rabid" as one poster has said, is simply bad loserism. I see Bercow, who is meant to be politically impartial, is now staying on as Speaker so he can be politically partial. How long before he is attacked (politically) for bringing his office into disrepute. Interesting this morning, that even the BBC is reporting that some EU leaders are saying in private that the Irish backstop pushed the UK too far. If they solve that one, everyone moves on.
I do t think that programme has any credibility to British politics... in fact it is designed to brainwash us the mob nothing more Behind everything that is put out in the media there is design of influence of course but the U.K. is without doubt the worse inflicted imo by a long way... and some of us all wonder why we have such a self obsessed nation void of responsibility and full to the brim with blame culture It will take a sweeping trend over the next few years to get us rid of this crap The Cons are just about to serve up another recipe of crap imo and many will swallow it all They are so out of touch it’s criminal and the Labour Party the same Wishing for radical change that brings us more in line to today’s free thinking politics. The U.K. has to reinvent itself inside or outside of Europe My viewpoint has always been built around loss of faith in the current state of the U.K. I still do not see us being able to stand alone in business and industry without a union ... the U.K has been in serious decline for 50 years or more and no bullshit speech from any of our political leaders will change that ever ... we are unable to understand revolution it’s that simple
I don't recognise your characterisation of the UK as a country in decline for 50 years, DT. It was in decline in the 1960's and 70's and lost much of its manufacturing due to uncompetitiveness and industrial dispute. But since, then it has done well, which is why immigration is so high. People want to come and live here. London was/is the fifth biggest French city, after all. As I said to Stan, if the UK and EU solve the backstop problem, I believe everyone can move forward. Won't be easy to negotiate the free trade agreement, but at least we'll have reached the next stage, the EU can focus on matters that are challenging it, and the UK can start to enter bilaterals with trading partners worldwide
Agree about the 'since then' bit Goldie - in fact you could fill in the missing lines there and say it has done well since joining the EU. By the way - immigration (the European variety) is not 'high' in the UK. There are far more EU. immigrants, as a percentage of population, in other EU. countries such as Germany, France, the Netherlands etc. Just to sober up a little - there are 1.2 million Rumanians in Italy, and 800,000 in Germany. There are 2 reasons why immigration to the UK. is high - the first is language, and the second is that many people think that the chances of getting casual, semi legal, cash in hand jobs is higher there - in addition, there is no real registration there and so many feel they can easily disappear.
My post wandered a bit, though your response confirms we have a mountain to climb to get back to any sense of civility, on both sides, no matter what the outcome. Remainers/Remoaners and Leavers/rabid Brexiters have sincere and completely incompatible beliefs. And their numbers are roughly equal. I’m not really interested in the technicalities of Brexit (though they will doubtless impact my life), more in what kind of country I will see out my life in. I was actually even more interested in who’s interests you (and anyone else) think the State, in a liberal democracy like ours, serves, both ideally and in reality. I’m testing a theory.
I agree that The Common Market was positive for the UK, Cologne. If we were talking about a trading organisation now, I'd vote for it. But the press by people like Verhofstadt for a fast move towards a centrally run federal state, together with the fact that the UK's trade and services with countries outside the EU is increasing faster than with those in the EU has made the difference to the thinking of many. Perhaps the changes in the make up of the EU Parliament will be a change for the good, perhaps moving on the dinosaurs like Junckers will help too. I want the UK to have a positive relationship with the EU. Agree with your comments about immigration. The international nature of London is of course a big draw for EU and non EU immigrants alike. They are not arriving at a country in decline. There's an interesting programme on here at the moment on Thatcher, and is dealing with the start of her premiership in 1979. If you look at the state of the country then, and the prosperity most of us have now, in a country with record high employment, the two are incomparable. And for those struggling financially, poverty had a different definition then, than it does now.
That last paragraph could be an Oxbridge examination question! In my view, the state should serve the populace, and provide a platform for individuals to make the most of their talents and proclivity for hard work and be successful in whatever they do, at the same time, providing a safety net for those who for reasons like unemployment and ill-health, fall on hard times. That's a narrow definition and the best I can do in 3 lines.
He'd be better than Maggie or May. Actually, I quite like him. Which means he won't get anywhere near of course.
It succeeds at least as well as any other country on earth. Of course, nothing is perfect. There are the disgustingly rich, and the deserving poor. But at present, the rich do pay a huge whack of tax. More needs to be done to help poorer children achieve their potential in life, though the state can only do so much and parents must take on that responsibility (and most do). If you have some talent and work hard, you can achieve great things in this country.
I would say London is now a country of its own Goldie it’s the best city in the world imo It’s the large towns I fear are all becoming very much the same It’s about money sadly and imo everything in the modern U.K. comes from the origin of London I agree totally that if the deal is solved then of course why not ? What I cannot see at the moment is exactly how this will happen ... a no deal will be truly awful for some areas of the U.K. London will be fine whatever happens but with so many industries outside the U.K. we will be in a poorer position . Madness to think that a divided nation with the current culture will care about everyone Makes little difference to me as it’s time to move on regardless except a no deal must not be allowed to happen
I don't think I'd heard of Rory Stewart before which says more about me than him. But having seen a few interviews he seems to be that rare commodity a Tory MP who appears to have an ounce of genuine compassion and empathy.
Certainly agree about London being a country in its own right. And it's happened in the space of about 40 years This is all very topical because John Cleese has put out a tweet stating that it is no longer English, which is probably right. It is a great city though. I agree with you also that I don't think a no-deal would ever happen. Both sides have too much to lose. But if the UK want a reasonable deal, they have to genuinely head for no deal. All this bluster from the likes of Junckers about not opening up the withdrawal agreement is total bollocks. The EU leaders like Merkel and Macron would be punished by their own electorate if they allowed a no-deal to happen without lifting a finger, leading to the inevitable heavy job losses in their respective countries.
Been to Newcastle recently? It’s ****ing brilliant, I love it. Though I don’t like them quite as much Birmingham, Liverpool and Bristol all have distinctive feels. Edinburgh and Glasgow- and to a lesser extent Cardiff - you are in a different country. Sure, the big shops are all the same and there is too much glass at ground level, but these places have clear, individual character. The dormitory towns in the south east I give you, identikit.
