Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
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sb_73 said:
Anybody see the news on the fly past by the RAF and US Air Force in Sheffield for the crew of a US bomber which crashed in a park in 1944?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...l-for-75-years-watches-flypast-wwii-us-pilots

It’s a rather sad but also inspiring story, just what I needed as I began to sink in a sea of (justifiable) cynicism.

Right, let’s get back to hating each other.
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Yes, it was wonderful. I think I posted something about this in the Review Thread a while back. Heartwarming stuff.
 
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sb_73 said:
Anybody see the news on the fly past by the RAF and US Air Force in Sheffield for the crew of a US bomber which crashed in a park in 1944?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...l-for-75-years-watches-flypast-wwii-us-pilots

It’s a rather sad but also inspiring story, just what I needed as I began to sink in a sea of (justifiable) cynicism.

Right, let’s get back to hating each other.
Click to expand...

What's the betting Hollywood picks up on this story? A real tearjerker movie is waiting to be made - Spielberg probably.
 
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sb_73 said:
Anybody see the news on the fly past by the RAF and US Air Force in Sheffield for the crew of a US bomber which crashed in a park in 1944?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...l-for-75-years-watches-flypast-wwii-us-pilots

It’s a rather sad but also inspiring story, just what I needed as I began to sink in a sea of (justifiable) cynicism.

Right, let’s get back to hating each other.
Click to expand...

I saw Dan Walker on BBC Breakfast couple of days ago talking about this - he was really worried for the old fella that the weather wouldn't be good enough for the fly-past....thankfully, it was all ok. Great story, and good effort by Walker to bring it to public attention, so much so that the flybpast went ahead.
 
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Stroller said:
More balance, less black and white, more acknowledgement of multiple shades of grey and nuance. Does 'Friends of Israel' suggest any of these things? Seems a bit one-sided to me.

My defence of Corbyn is against accusations that he himself is anti-Semitic. I don't believe that he is. There is undoubtedly anti-Semitism from some in the Labour party though, and it needs to be rooted out. This is where I would certainly criticise Corbyn - for his poor handling of the issue and for allowing it to drag on as it has. I would much rather his supporters in the party were focused a bit less on the Middle East and a bit more on domestic issues and the desperate need to get rid of this far-right government.
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I hope you read beyond the name of the group. If you had you would have seen that they advocate peaceful co-existence in a two state system in which the Jews and Palestinians recognise each other's sovereignty.

Whether you believe it or not his reluctance has caused a lot of damage and sown the seed of the doubts of many that under his leadership something toxic and highly unpleasant has been awoken in the soul of the Labour party. I've never had much difficulty in accepting that the Press being as right wing as it is does its best to publicise every horror story and gaffe but when decent Labour politicians who suffer from the sin of being closer to the centre and, even worse, being tarred and feathered as guilty by association with Tony Blair, so that their views do not get even a fair hearing are forced to leave, the chances of victory, which were certainly real, recede into the distance.

He cannot lay the blame elsewhere.for this scandal which is an affront to the image and core values of the party he leads.
 
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sb_73 said:
The countries in green do not recognise Israel’s right to exist, to which can be added organisations like Hamas, Al Queda and ISIS. Good luck with ‘peace and reconciliation in the Middle East’ until some Arab countries change their position. None of these are interested in the only viable answer, a two state solution (which Labour Friends of Israel also supports, as do the Labour Friends of Palestine).

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Over the years a variety of Israeli governments have implemented vile and in my view counter productive policies against the Palestinians (the result has been Hamas). The current Israeli Government is especially odious. However, it is the only government in the region which can actually be voted out of power by the (Jewish and Palestinian) citizens of Israel (there are Palestinian MPs in the Israeli Parliament). Israeli policy actually can be influenced by international opinion, but as long as they perceive they face an existential threat they will take extreme measures to protect themselves.

While I can deplore specific actions of the Israeli State in the overall context I would class myself as a friend of Israel.
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To summarise, it takes both sides to stop the war and hatred and the one little country in the middle of the map surrounded by enemies who would like to obliterate it from the map has an understandable sense of paranoia which will not go away until its neighbours change their attitudes.
 
YorkshireHoopster said:
I hope you read beyond the name of the group. If you had you would have seen that they advocate peaceful co-existence in a two state system in which the Jews and Palestinians recognise each other's sovereignty.

Whether you believe it or not his reluctance has caused a lot of damage and sown the seed of the doubts of many that under his leadership something toxic and highly unpleasant has been awoken in the soul of the Labour party. I've never had much difficulty in accepting that the Press being as right wing as it is does its best to publicise every horror story and gaffe but when decent Labour politicians who suffer from the sin of being closer to the centre and, even worse, being tarred and feathered as guilty by association with Tony Blair, so that their views do not get even a fair hearing are forced to leave, the chances of victory, which were certainly real, recede into the distance.

He cannot lay the blame elsewhere.for this scandal which is an affront to the image and core values of the party he leads.
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Excellent post, I've noticed every opportunity he has had to 'engage' with the Jewish community, such as the 70th anniversary of the State of Israel, he has been conspicuously absent with flimsy excuses yet he has always found time to mix with many abhorrent terrorist groups that wish to wipe out Israel. When the leader of a party is so biased the more extreme followers of the party are empowered and you have only to look at the pathetic way in which the number of anti-semitic complaints have been dealt with by Labour to realise there is a serious problem at the core of the party that is not going away any time soon...
 
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YorkshireHoopster said:
I hope you read beyond the name of the group. If you had you would have seen that they advocate peaceful co-existence in a two state system in which the Jews and Palestinians recognise each other's sovereignty.

Whether you believe it or not his reluctance has caused a lot of damage and sown the seed of the doubts of many that under his leadership something toxic and highly unpleasant has been awoken in the soul of the Labour party. I've never had much difficulty in accepting that the Press being as right wing as it is does its best to publicise every horror story and gaffe but when decent Labour politicians who suffer from the sin of being closer to the centre and, even worse, being tarred and feathered as guilty by association with Tony Blair, so that their views do not get even a fair hearing are forced to leave, the chances of victory, which were certainly real, recede into the distance.

He cannot lay the blame elsewhere.for this scandal which is an affront to the image and core values of the party he leads.
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm not that much interested in the LFI really - as I said earlier, I was barely aware of its existence until the last few days. Its significance in those last few days has been in the fact the nearly all of the Labour quitters (seven out of the nine, I believe) were members, and because they have cited anti-Semitism as a major part of their decision to leave. I don't doubt that anti-Semitism exists in the Labour party and agree that Corbyn needs to act more decisively to root it out, but I do wonder how much of what is perceived as anti-Semitism is actually legitimate anti-Israeli sentiment based on the excesses of the Israeli state (Disclaimer: I do not seek to condone or excuse the vile abuse to which Luciana Berger has been subjected, which is of course disgusting).

You talk of the 'soul' of the Labour party - are you a supporter, or perhaps a member? I've never been a member, but was a firm supporter all my life until Blair took the party what I considered to be too far to the right (John Major used to joke that Blair was more right-wing than he was). From my perspective, Corbyn and McDonnell have given the party back its soul by reverting to a socialist agenda of state ownership of natural monopolies, fair taxation, protection of workers' rights and scrapping tuition fees. This to me is the most important question for Labour MPs and members - do you support this move to the left (where I believe the party belongs) or don't you? The quitters don't.
 
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