Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

To be honest I'm not that much interested in the LFI really - as I said earlier, I was barely aware of its existence until the last few days. Its significance in those last few days has been in the fact the nearly all of the Labour quitters (seven out of the nine, I believe) were members, and because they have cited anti-Semitism as a major part of their decision to leave. I don't doubt that anti-Semitism exists in the Labour party and agree that Corbyn needs to act more decisively to root it out, but I do wonder how much of what is perceived as anti-Semitism is actually legitimate anti-Israeli sentiment based on the excesses of the Israeli state (Disclaimer: I do not seek to condone or excuse the vile abuse to which Luciana Berger has been subjected, which is of course disgusting).

You talk of the 'soul' of the Labour party - are you a supporter, or perhaps a member? I've never been a member, but was a firm supporter all my life until Blair took the party what I considered to be too far to the right (John Major used to joke that Blair was more right-wing than he was). From my perspective, Corbyn and McDonnell have given the party back its soul by reverting to a socialist agenda of state ownership of natural monopolies, fair taxation, protection of workers' rights and scrapping tuition fees. This to me is the most important question for Labour MPs and members - do you support this move to the left (where I believe the party belongs) or don't you? The quitters don't.

Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and join Labour Strolls? From what I read it is losing 6,000 members a month, Corbyn could do with your support. A long time ago I actually was, briefly, a member, in the early 80s during its last ultra leftist spasm. Corbyn was an ideological outlier then as he is now, intellectually third class at best.

You talk of the ‘soul’ of the Labour Party. In the old days this was always the heavily unionised skilled working class much more than a particular ideological position. Now that class no longer really exists - the unions are a side show and the aspirations of skilled workers takes them away from Labour, which is now the home of the Leftist bourgeoisie, as epitomised by Corbyn.

 

[Stroller]

Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and join Labour Strolls? From what I read it is losing 6,000 members a month, Corbyn could do with your support. A long time ago I actually was, briefly, a member, in the early 80s during its last ultra leftist spasm. Corbyn was an ideological outlier then as he is now, intellectually third class at best.

You talk of the ‘soul’ of the Labour Party. In the old days this was always the heavily unionised skilled working class much more than a particular ideological position. Now that class no longer really exists - the unions are a side show and the aspirations of skilled workers takes them away from Labour, which is now the home of the Leftist bourgeoisie, as epitomised by Corbyn.

Leftist bourgeoisie! Isn't that an oxymoron? Of course, if you have a few quid you're not allowed to be in favour of a bit more taxation and a bigger state are you?

I'm off to watch the rugby, but may come back to this later.

 

[sb_73]

Leftist bourgeoisie! Isn't that an oxymoron? Of course, if you have a few quid you're not allowed to be in favour of a bit more taxation and a bigger state are you?

I'm off to watch the rugby, but may come back to this later.

I’m a member of the leftist bourgeoisie, or at least I have been in the past, no shame in that.

You seem to be genuinely passionate about the Momentum agenda Strolls, I’m honestly curious as to why you don’t get more involved. I’d love your feedback after a couple of constituency meetings. That’s what did for me.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

To be honest I'm not that much interested in the LFI really - as I said earlier, I was barely aware of its existence until the last few days. Its significance in those last few days has been in the fact the nearly all of the Labour quitters (seven out of the nine, I believe) were members, and because they have cited anti-Semitism as a major part of their decision to leave. I don't doubt that anti-Semitism exists in the Labour party and agree that Corbyn needs to act more decisively to root it out, but I do wonder how much of what is perceived as anti-Semitism is actually legitimate anti-Israeli sentiment based on the excesses of the Israeli state (Disclaimer: I do not seek to condone or excuse the vile abuse to which Luciana Berger has been subjected, which is of course disgusting).

You talk of the 'soul' of the Labour party - are you a supporter, or perhaps a member? I've never been a member, but was a firm supporter all my life until Blair took the party what I considered to be too far to the right (John Major used to joke that Blair was more right-wing than he was). From my perspective, Corbyn and McDonnell have given the party back its soul by reverting to a socialist agenda of state ownership of natural monopolies, fair taxation, protection of workers' rights and scrapping tuition fees. This to me is the most important question for Labour MPs and members - do you support this move to the left (where I believe the party belongs) or don't you? The quitters don't.

My voting record would not lead to anyone saying I was either. All I can say is that I have never voted Conservative and have voted Labour from time to time. Anyone who hears me speak or rage from time to time instantly accuses me (jokingly I hasten to add ) of being communist in my views! Basically I could not agree with all the manifesto commitments and have never been able therefore to vote consistently for the Labour candidate . Deep down I believe in fairness and equality of opportunity.

However, I am not in favour of reverse discrimination which now seeks to punish the talented in the interest of so-called greater diversity. The gender pay gap for example is a totally obnoxious concept in my view because opportunity for promotion in the workplace should be available to good candidates irregardless of their gender, race, religion or sexual orientation. Etc. That does not apply in the public sector and many private sector leading companies when you have candidates of similar merit but one happens to be from a disadvantaged minority because they are working to a pc agenda.

Gender pay reporting is based on a totally flawed concept because it does not pay heed to the fact that many if not most women choose voluntarily or by genuine agreement with their partners to work part-time only put simply because they prefer motherhood and nest building to full time work. There are a few exceptions where the role is reversed where the man has volunteered to stay at home or work part-time because he wants to do so or because he earns less and can swallow his macho pride. But certainly I do not see among the companies that I represent any inequality of pay between the sexes for the job roles they fulfill or any reluctance to choose female candidates who are better or more promising than their male counterparts. It's just that fewer apply. It is galling therefore to see those companies pilloried in the press because they have a large or widening gender pay gap simply because they are forced to employ more part-timers and more women hold those roles.

There is also excessive political correctness (spawned by left wing ideologies) and followed by most now because of process-drive American HR drivel. Each case needs to be judged on its merits and it will often be obvious whether any harm or offence has been caused, The best contribution on Thursday's QT was from one John Barnes who very eloquently dismissed the suggestion that Liam Neeson had been guilty of racism because he had admitted to a temporary rage which thankfully he did not follow through with after the sexual assault on his close acquaintance by one black man. I stand with him on that as opposed to the trite view of the Labour numpty who immediately went the other way.

As you have seen from my posts about Shamima Begum I don't subscribe to the view that everyone persistently has to be treated as innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Nor do I accept that everyone can be rehabilitated. In her case because she knew exactly what was going on and, in her words, it did not phase her at all. It does not matter to me whether she is White, Asian, Muslim or Jewish. She supports an evil cult which brings her religion into disrepute and has the effect as the leaders well know that innocent Muslims worldwide become targets for every nutter in the world

Fair taxation and benefits I certainly agree and would support an overall increase in taxation in order to ensure that public services can work properly. Public services should not be run with the intention that they are profitable. The answer to any Tory spokesman wheeled out to justify why people are dying in corridors in our hospitals because they can't be seen by an overstretched NHS who tells us blithely how they have spent an extra £---------- this year is not how much extra it is but rather that they have not spent enough to ensure these things do not happen and the reason they have shown that dereliction of duty is because a Treasury bean counter says that is all they can spend without being penalised. It's all very well for the bean counter because s/he will not be in that position. S/he's alright Jack.


Left of centre but I can't be put into a box.

 

[Frome-Ranger]

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[sb_73]

Vinnie/Evander/ Lugless Douglas final update. The boy was discharged from specialist care last week after an outpatients review, with the consultant amazed at how well his ear has healed up given the initial damage and failure of the graft. He’s lucky, and even luckier that the twats who attacked him didn’t have knives.

The police meanwhile have been spectacularly useless. Zero, zilch, nada, nothing.

 

[Sooperhoop]

Vinnie/Evander/ Lugless Douglas final update. The boy was discharged from specialist care last week after an outpatients review, with the consultant amazed at how well his ear has healed up given the initial damage and failure of the graft. He’s lucky, and even luckier that the twats who attacked him didn’t have knives.

The police meanwhile have been spectacularly useless. Zero, zilch, nada, nothing.

Glad to hear he's made a good recovery. Sadly, the police response appears to be par for the course, unless it's an open goal and a tap-in they don't seem to bother their arses...

 

[sb_73]

Glad to hear he's made a good recovery. Sadly, the police response appears to be par for the course, unless it's an open goal and a tap-in they don't seem to bother their arses...

They started off with ‘this is a top priority’ because the crime was so unusual and nasty for round here, but that seemed to equate to putting an ancient part time detective who didn’t even know how to start his lap top on the case. So far he has reviewed CCTV, getting nothing, and that’s it.

 

[DT’s Socks]

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Top opinion how could anyone argue against what he has said here ?

Betrayal of the next generations
Idiots of yesteryear

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Sadly I can answer that. 'Twat'. 'Muppet' 'Another moaning Remoaner.' 'Senile traitor'. 'The decision's been made, we won you lost. Get over it.' Another rousing chorus of 4th Reich or two. And to him personally, I dare say he will get a few offensive messages but doubt he will be get death threats. Not when there are so many female politicians those brave correspondents can muster the courage to try to bully in to silence.

 

[DT’s Socks]

You do talk some **** sometimes. Some of it good **** - some of it indecipherable and some of it cobblers.

Thank you and I totally agree there
On Israel however I really don’t agree with what they have been getting away with for years and I certainly do not agree with the western support or blind eye that seems to be unconditionally given.

You only have to simply swap news channels in the U.K. to receive a completely different reportage ... ie Aljazeera

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[kiwiqpr]

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heres another one who wants to return
those scottish pasties must be tasty
has anyone told him doctor who is a woman

 

[kiwiqpr]

Douglas Carswell‏Verified account@DouglasCarswell 8h8 hours ago
Did you know that @sarahwollaston sponsored a Bill to make it compulsory for MPs switching parties to face by elections? And why has not a single broadcaster, to my knowledge, raised this with her?

 

[Stroller]

I’m a member of the leftist bourgeoisie, or at least I have been in the past, no shame in that.

You seem to be genuinely passionate about the Momentum agenda Strolls, I’m honestly curious as to why you don’t get more involved. I’d love your feedback after a couple of constituency meetings. That’s what did for me.

I've never really been one for activism, I'm afraid. Never joined a political party and never been on a demo and it's probably too late to start now. I'm certainly passionate politically, but my efforts are restricted to voting at every opportunity, heated pub discussions with mates, and getting on people's nerves on here. What enthuses me about the Labour party at the moment is its policy manifesto (which I don't believe was written by Momentum, by the way). I see this as returning Labour to where it belongs - a radical left-wing alternative to laissez-faire Capitalism. I suspect that McDonnell deserves most of the credit for the manifesto, and would probably have been a better choice to lead from the left than Corbyn.

I heard a bonkers interview with Maureen Lipman on John Pienaar's politics show this morning (why would a Jewish Blairite such as she be on, I wonder?) where she claimed that Corbyn was happy for the anti-Semitism row to drag on because it drew attention away from Labour's 'awful' policies. This is plainly not true, because the polices are popular, as demonstrated in the last GE. They are just too radical for the right of the party. Anyway, Brexit is all-consuming, so no one's much interested in any other policy issues right now. I see May has taken the ball to the corner flag again by delaying a further vote on her deal until March 12th. The votes on Wednesday could be interesting though, as McDonnell has been saying that Labour is moving towards supporting a further referendum.

 

[DT’s Socks]

I've never really been one for activism, I'm afraid. Never joined a political party and never been on a demo and it's probably too late to start now. I'm certainly passionate politically, but my efforts are restricted to voting at every opportunity, heated pub discussions with mates, and getting on people's nerves on here. What enthuses me about the Labour party at the moment is its policy manifesto (which I don't believe was written by Momentum, by the way). I see this as returning Labour to where it belongs - a radical left-wing alternative to laissez-faire Capitalism. I suspect that McDonnell deserves most of the credit for the manifesto, and would probably have been a better choice to lead from the left than Corbyn.

I heard a bonkers interview with Maureen Lipman on John Pienaar's politics show this morning (why would a Jewish Blairite such as she be on, I wonder?) where she claimed that Corbyn was happy for the anti-Semitism row to drag on because it drew attention away from Labour's 'awful' policies. This is plainly not true, because the polices are popular, as demonstrated in the last GE. They are just too radical for the right of the party. Anyway, Brexit is all-consuming, so no one's much interested in any other policy issues right now. I see May has taken the ball to the corner flag again by delaying a further vote on her deal until March 12th. The votes on Wednesday could be interesting though, as McDonnell has been saying that Labour is moving towards supporting a further referendum.

Respect for being honest
It’s armchair politics and exactly what I am harping on about in a way. I pass countless Jilet Jaunes protestors in France still out and active ... after how many weeks?
The differences I witness in cultural awareness and activity are polls apart
Last Rally I went on was in France as EDF has swallowed up my own communes hydro electricity company plus built 7 windmills ... they were not let off the hook not only have the historical villages in my area had new power lines put in underground but now they are being made to honour their promise that power prices will be kept exactly the same as before ... it’s a big question of honour imo

Last year we had the worse flood of all time which ripped out the main pylons EDF were on the scene in 3 hours three helicopters in 6 as my hamlet was cut off ... the equipment they have was like watching Thunderbirds

I believe this all happened because the voice and presence of the people was fully respected... Fast forward to the U.K. you can’t even get through to them on the bloody phone without a degree

We are Sheep in the U.K.

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[sb_73]

I've never really been one for activism, I'm afraid. Never joined a political party and never been on a demo and it's probably too late to start now. I'm certainly passionate politically, but my efforts are restricted to voting at every opportunity, heated pub discussions with mates, and getting on people's nerves on here. What enthuses me about the Labour party at the moment is its policy manifesto (which I don't believe was written by Momentum, by the way). I see this as returning Labour to where it belongs - a radical left-wing alternative to laissez-faire Capitalism. I suspect that McDonnell deserves most of the credit for the manifesto, and would probably have been a better choice to lead from the left than Corbyn.

I heard a bonkers interview with Maureen Lipman on John Pienaar's politics show this morning (why would a Jewish Blairite such as she be on, I wonder?) where she claimed that Corbyn was happy for the anti-Semitism row to drag on because it drew attention away from Labour's 'awful' policies. This is plainly not true, because the polices are popular, as demonstrated in the last GE. They are just too radical for the right of the party. Anyway, Brexit is all-consuming, so no one's much interested in any other policy issues right now. I see May has taken the ball to the corner flag again by delaying a further vote on her deal until March 12th. The votes on Wednesday could be interesting though, as McDonnell has been saying that Labour is moving towards supporting a further referendum.

Fair enough Strolls. Not sure if Andrew Fisher, who wrote the manifesto, is officially a Momentum member. He’s a former columnist for the Morning Star and was briefly suspended from Labour for urging voters in South Croydon not to vote Labour, but for the candidate for Class War (Stainsey’s mob). I’m afraid that, in my opinion, the Corbyn clique is full of entryists, for whom the Labour Party is a vehicle to power to implement a ultra left agenda, dragging us all towards the equality of poverty.

I don’t take political pointers from Maureen Lipman, and I hope no one else does. Labour has to deal with this Zionist/anti semitism stuff quickly and decisively, it’s a running sore.

May is kicking the empty can further down the road. Still in a game of chicken with the EU and MPs.

It’s a shame that all the commentators and the nonentities who have joined it can only see this Independent Group in terms of the past, a rerun of the SDP. A chance to reshape our moribund, ossified political landscape will pass us by.

Drinking Malbec while the lamb roasts, all is good with the world.

 

[ELLERS]

So" just leave this here !!

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore

 

[sb_73]

So" just leave this here !!

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore

Turkish posted this a few weeks ago. I looked the Treaty up, and asked him to post the relevant bits in reference to this stuff, because I couldn’t find any of it. He hasn’t had the time to do this yet.

It’s bullshit, fake news, propaganda. Do you not think it’s odd that Farage et al did not lead the leave campaign with this stuff - they didn’t because it’s a lie too far even for them. And it’s irrelevant, we are leaving the EU, what they choose to do is up to them.

I didn’t have you down as gullible Ellers.