Off Topic So, what now?

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BCFCRob said:
So if you don't mind 500m people being able to come into our country illegally, then I assume you would be happy to have a completely open border? Because that's essentially what you are saying.
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Now we are going right back to what this discussion is all about, I want us to have the complete independence to control our own borders, make our own decisions and choices, not have 7 unelected, overpaid(I see they have just awarded themselves a nice big, fat, sweaty pay increase) white, male, grey haired old buffoons ordering us how to live.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-official-pay-rise-Jean-Claude-Juncker-latest
 
wizered said:
Now we are going right back to what this discussion is all about, I want us to have the complete independence to control our own borders, make our own decisions and choices, not have 7 unelected, overpaid(I see they have just awarded themselves a nice big, fat, sweaty pay increase) white, male, grey haired old buffoons ordering us how to live.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-official-pay-rise-Jean-Claude-Juncker-latest
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Right. That's totally fair enough, I even agree with you with the final bit.

The problem is, a no deal Brexit gives us NO control over our Irish border. You do realise that don't you?

This is not project fear. It is just basic logic. Anybody who can travel to Ireland (hundreds of millions) can then walk into the UK without being checked.

This is the problem with no deal. And no one is able to solve it.
 
Checks on immigration are possible but it’s hard to forecast
World War II aside, there have never been controls on migration between the UK and Ireland.

The Common Travel Area means “minimal or non-existent border controls”, in the words of an Irish parliamentary report.

In practice the land border is almost completely open, but airlines and ferry operators still require photo ID, which doesn’t always have to be a passport. Passengers are always asked for passports at airports where immigration officers can’t tell that they’ve come from within the Common Travel Area.

Nevertheless, people can use the open border to travel illegally from Ireland to Northern Ireland and on to the rest of the UK, and likewise in the other direction.

This is currently addressed by “Operation Gull”, in which immigration officers check passengers on routes between Northern Ireland and the island of Great Britain. This is designed to compensate for the lack of checks on unauthorised travel across the north/south border.

Copied and pasted this, we have never had migration controls apart from world war 2, crazy it's now causing all of these problems.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-and-irish-border/
 
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I wonder if this will cause any problems up in the Baltic they have none at the moment.

Customs checks aren’t a big problem on the Norway/Sweden border
These checks could be fairly light touch. Because Sweden is in the EU and Norway is not, there are customs checks between those two countries.

They are spot checks, though, and don’t involve the checking of all vehicles.

Vans and lorries carrying imports could be told to attend a customs depot, which needn’t be at the border, with spot checks of commercial vehicles near the border as a deterrent against evasion. It might also be possible to use technology to reduce or eliminate the burden of physical checks.

I fully realise Norway is a member of EFTA.
 
wizered said:
I wonder if this will cause any problems up in the Baltic they have none at the moment.

Customs checks aren’t a big problem on the Norway/Sweden border
These checks could be fairly light touch. Because Sweden is in the EU and Norway is not, there are customs checks between those two countries.

They are spot checks, though, and don’t involve the checking of all vehicles.

Vans and lorries carrying imports could be told to attend a customs depot, which needn’t be at the border, with spot checks of commercial vehicles near the border as a deterrent against evasion. It might also be possible to use technology to reduce or eliminate the burden of physical checks.

I fully realise Norway is a member of EFTA.
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That's because Norway accepts all EU laws (without a say in how they're made) and has freedom of movement.

Under no deal we'd have neither. So that doesn't apply to us.
 
Now we've had a nice chat it seems obvious to me the way forward, so Mrs May listen to my suggestions, abandon the back stop, have light touch, suprise spot checks at the borders,vans and lorries carrying imports could be told to attend a customs depot, which needn’t be at the border, with spot checks of commercial vehicles near the border as a deterrent against evasion, use technology to reduce or eliminate the burden of physical checks..

There you go I bet that get's binned it's too simple and half of it is already used, tried and tested .
 
wizered said:
Now we've had a nice chat it seems obvious to me the way forward, so Mrs May listen to my suggestions, abandon the back stop, have light touch, suprise spot checks at the borders,vans and lorries carrying imports could be told to attend a customs depot, which needn’t be at the border, with spot checks of commercial vehicles near the border as a deterrent against evasion, use technology to reduce or eliminate the burden of physical checks..

There you go I bet that get's binned it's too simple and half of it is already used, tried and tested .
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It'll get binned because it won't work wiz. Ireland won't stand for it unless you want a return to the terrorism we saw 20/30 years ago. It won't stop people illegally entering the country, and how do you expect us to set up border crossing checks for nearly 300 crossings in the space of 2 months?

You can call me a remoaner all you guys like. I know there are debates about planes being able to fly and whether we will have food or medicine. I'll admit, I honestly don't know what's going to happen there. I don't know enough about it, so I won't argue about it.

But this border problem? I'm not lying gents. This is an impossible situation. And a no deal Brexit will mean that we have a 100% completely open border, which is not what any of you voted for. And I'm sorry but you're going to have to accept that, or accept that you were wrong.

EDIT: When I say accept that you were wrong, I mean just on this issue. Not on Brexit. That's entirely your choice.
 
BCFCRob said:
It'll get binned because it won't work wiz. Ireland won't stand for it unless you want a return to the terrorism we saw 20/30 years ago. It won't stop people illegally entering the country, and how do you expect us to set up border crossing checks for nearly 300 crossings in the space of 2 months?

You can call me a remoaner all you guys like. I know there are debates about planes being able to fly and whether we will have food or medicine. I'll admit, I honestly don't know what's going to happen there. I don't know enough about it, so I won't argue about it.

But this border problem? I'm not lying gents. This is an impossible situation. And a no deal Brexit will mean that we have a 100% completely open border, which is not what any of you voted for. And I'm sorry but you're going to have to accept that, or accept that you were wrong.

EDIT: When I say accept that you were wrong, I mean just on this issue. Not on Brexit. That's entirely your choice.
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The Terrorism of years gone by was nothing to do with Eire, it was an internal issue in N/I Rob.

Wiz has explained how the border issue can be resolved to just say it won’t work because Ireland won’t stand for it and that will somehow bring back the ‘ troubles’ doesn’t make sense.
 
AshtonRed said:
The Terrorism of years gone by was nothing to do with Eire, it was an internal issue in N/I Rob.
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With all due respect, I don't think you know what you're talking about mate. The Unionists in Ireland wanted NI to stay with the UK. The Nationalists (IRA) wanted NI to stay with Ireland. If a border was set up in Ireland, it would rejuvenate the IRA and we would be back to the bombings of before.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I am mainly Irish, and one of my grandparents funded the IRA. I know what I'm talking about.
 
BCFCRob said:
With all due respect, I don't think you know what you're talking about mate. The Unionists in Ireland wanted NI to stay with the UK. The Nationalists (IRA) wanted NI to stay with Ireland. If a border was set up in Ireland, it would rejuvenate the IRA and we would be back to the bombings of before.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I am mainly Irish, and one of my grandparents funded the IRA. I know what I'm talking about.
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As you described a N/I internal issue , nothing to do with Eire, and Wiz didn’t suggest a hard border , don’t assume u r the only one who understands
 
AshtonRed said:
As you described a N/I internal issue , nothing to do with Eire, and Wiz didn’t suggest a hard border , don’t assume u r the only one who understands
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Sorry Ashton Red. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Nationalists in Northern Ireland wanting NI to be part of Ireland has nothing to do with Eire?
 
BCFCRob said:
In a no deal scenario, all you would have to do to illegally enter our country is walk across the Irish/Northern Irish border. You're then free to go wherever you like in the United Kingdom. If you have a substance allowed in the EU but banned in the UK, it doesn't matter. We wouldn't be able to check. If you're allowed in the EU but banned from the UK it doesn't matter, we wouldn't be able to stop you.
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You haven't thought this through have you!
 
wizered said:
I wonder if this will cause any problems up in the Baltic they have none at the moment.

Customs checks aren’t a big problem on the Norway/Sweden border
These checks could be fairly light touch. Because Sweden is in the EU and Norway is not, there are customs checks between those two countries.

They are spot checks, though, and don’t involve the checking of all vehicles.

Vans and lorries carrying imports could be told to attend a customs depot, which needn’t be at the border, with spot checks of commercial vehicles near the border as a deterrent against evasion. It might also be possible to use technology to reduce or eliminate the burden of physical checks.

I fully realise Norway is a member of EFTA.
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I’ve got friends in Sweden and I can only say what they’ve said to me.
Immigration is a big problem there, and they are saying gun and knife issues are getting worse by the day.
 
RedorDead said:
I’ve got friends in Sweden and I can only say what they’ve said to me.
Immigration is a big problem there, and they are saying gun and knife issues are getting worse by the day.
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Think our knife issues are pretty bad as it stands and getting worse.....not sure if it's down to immigration or lack of police and poor prison sentences.......Doesn't help with so many people on quite a small Island!!
 
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