Off Topic So, what now?

[BCFCRob]

I would be interested to know your solution Rob.

Accepting we’ve voted to leave so remaining isn’t an option , what’s your solution to the problem you’ve set out ? because it has to be solved , to do otherwise would set back democracy in this country,

I absolutely don't have a solution mate, but I'm not the one calling for it. Thing is I was under the impression you were advocating a no deal Brexit and therefore was hoping you might be able to come up with a solution. As it turns out I was wrong, so that's my fault.

I know you say about it being legal, and no deal WILL happen, etc, but that doesn't make it possible. Which is exactly my point. It might be legally enshrined and fully expected from all sides, but unless you want to accept genuinely uncontrolled immigration/smuggling of goods, or instead have an Irish border, then it is physically and politically impossible.

every port [ and airport?] in the UK /those bits of the UK we have in Belgium France etc have 2 very distinct lanes as it stands and has done for 40 years it says non eu /eu/ uk citizens, the freedom of movement is applicable only to EU citizens.
As they would say in the "house" point of order" you were remain, we are not now, democracy has spoken, you were remain. In the future, heaven forbid there is another vote you can be whatever you want. Respect your vote to want to remain, makes some of your posts more understandable …...

I know JGF, but this is my point. If we leave with no deal in March, there will be no hard border with the EU in Ireland. So your lanes would be completely irrelevant, people from all over Europe can fly into Ireland, and then literally walk into the UK with no checks whatsoever.

That would send illegal immigration sky high. Which ironically is why some people voted Brexit.

 

[RedorDead]

Any body think the Euro deal is bad
You ain’t seen nothing yet
Any of you like this,if you do you must be completely mad and need too give your head a wobble.

This is what happens when we stay in Europe
WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK MAY’s DEAL WAS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAINERS..
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!

Because I believe you’re an educated man who researched all this and spent the time to type all of this out for us.
Please can you elobarate on number 17 please?
Please no one else just RR, because he did spend his time writing this all by himself.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

I absolutely don't have a solution mate, but I'm not the one calling for it. Thing is I was under the impression you were advocating a no deal Brexit and therefore was hoping you might be able to come up with a solution. As it turns out I was wrong, so that's my fault.

I know you say about it being legal, and no deal WILL happen, etc, but that doesn't make it possible. Which is exactly my point. It might be legally enshrined and fully expected from all sides, but unless you want to accept genuinely uncontrolled immigration/smuggling of goods, or instead have an Irish border, then it is physically and politically impossible.



I know JGF, but this is my point. If we leave with no deal in March, there will be no hard border with the EU in Ireland. So your lanes would be completely irrelevant, people from all over Europe can fly into Ireland, and then literally walk into the UK with no checks whatsoever.

That would send illegal immigration sky high. Which ironically is why some people voted Brexit.

Is there freedom of movement now?, we still have to show our passport several times when flying out or when arriving in other countries including EU....
Challenging yes, impossible to sort? I don't think so, especially with the technology we have.. Personally, I think it's a bit of scaremongering!!

 

[BCFCRob]

Is there freedom of movement now?, we still have to show our passport several times when flying out or when arriving in other countries including EU....
Challenging yes, impossible to sort? I don't think so, especially with the technology we have.. Personally, I think it's a bit of scaremongering!!

You clearly don't get what I'm talking about mate.

After a no deal Brexit, let's suppose you're one of the 500,000,000 people with an EU passport. You don't have a visa to enter the UK. Therefore if you were to enter the UK it would be illegal.

What is stopping you flying to Ireland and walking across the border into the UK?

 

[raver]

Is there freedom of movement now?, we still have to show our passport several times when flying out or when arriving in other countries including EU....
Challenging yes, impossible to sort? I don't think so, especially with the technology we have.. Personally, I think it's a bit of scaremongering!!

It depends what you define as freedom of movement beyond a holiday. To spend more than 90 days in any 180 day period in the Schengen area or to work will be quite different

 

[wizered]

What is stopping you flying to Ireland and walking across the border into the UK?

Nothing mate, they can do it now, nothing will change.

 

[BCFCRob]

Nothing mate, they can do it now, nothing will change.

Yes but at the moment it's legal. After a no deal Brexit, it would be illegal, as European citizens would no longer have the right to enter our country freely.

That means 500,000,000 people, who are not allowed to enter our country, with a free border to walk across and smuggle anything they like into the country with zero checks.

What we have done in trying to take control of our borders, is actually (if we have no deal) open it up to everybody.

 

[wizered]

Yes but at the moment it's legal. After a no deal Brexit, it would be illegal, as European citizens would no longer have the right to enter our country freely.

So you agree then we would be taking back control, it's just how is your concern ?

 

[BCFCRob]

So you agree then we would be taking back control, it's just how is your concern ?

No we wouldn't have any control. At the moment to illegally enter our country you have to go via Calais, or have a dangerous trip across the sea.

In a no deal scenario, all you would have to do to illegally enter our country is walk across the Irish/Northern Irish border. You're then free to go wherever you like in the United Kingdom. If you have a substance allowed in the EU but banned in the UK, it doesn't matter. We wouldn't be able to check. If you're allowed in the EU but banned from the UK it doesn't matter, we wouldn't be able to stop you.

This is why no deal is impossible to implement, unless you want illegal immigration to absolutely skyrocket.

 

[wizered]

Nothing is impossible, that is a remainers clarion call, I would not want Jackboots, steel helmets and machine gun watchtowers every half mile but I think the light touch manning and new technology approach which has been suggested is good, enough goodwill and mutual, responsible coordination on both sides would suffice.

Project fear is a busted flush, nobody of any sanity believes it.

 

[BCFCRob]

Nothing is impossible that is a remainers clarion call, I would not want Jackboots, steel helmets and machine gun watchtowers every half mile but I think the light touch manning and new technology approach which has been suggested is good, enough goodwill and mutual, responsible coordination on both sides would suffice.

Project fear is a busted flush, nobody of any sanity believes it.

I'm not here to debate it mate, it descended into arguments last time, partly my fault I know, so I'm not looking for arguments or anything. Just here to point out this fact that's all!

It's not project fear to point out that in a no deal scenario, anyone can walk into the country and they can bring anything they like. That's not project fear at all mate, that's total fact. And I'm not going to just assume we have the technology to deal with it because in reality none of us know.

All of this stuff about lack of food, flights, etc. That's debatable so I'm happy to just ignore that. But the above about an unmanned border WILL happen in a no deal Brexit scenario. It's just whether we're happy to accept it or not.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

I'm not here to debate it mate, it descended into arguments last time, partly my fault I know, so I'm not looking for arguments or anything. Just here to point out this fact that's all!

It's not project fear to point out that in a no deal scenario, anyone can walk into the country and they can bring anything they like. That's not project fear at all mate, that's total fact. And I'm not going to just assume we have the technology to deal with it because in reality none of us know.

All of this stuff about lack of food, flights, etc. That's debatable so I'm happy to just ignore that. But the above about an unmanned border WILL happen in a no deal Brexit scenario. It's just whether we're happy to accept it or not.

It's just logistics mate, like I said, with technology of today, there would be a way of working it out......and who ever does will make a fortune!!

 

[BCFCRob]

It's just logistics mate, like I said, with technology of today, there would be a way of working it out......and who ever does will make a fortune!!

You guys are going to have to explain how you're going to stop hundreds of thousands of people and illegally entering and smuggling into the country via the Irish border, more than just 'belief' that we can sort it.

Many people voted for Brexit because of immigration. If we were unable to deal with it properly in the EU at a border across the sea, what makes you think we can suddenly deal with it outside of the EU at a far easier border to cross with far more people?

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

You guys are going to have to explain how you're going to stop hundreds of thousands of people and illegally entering and smuggling into the country via the Irish border, more than just 'belief' that we can sort it.

Many people voted for Brexit because of immigration. If we were unable to deal with it properly in the EU at a border across the sea, what makes you think we can suddenly deal with it outside of the EU at a far easier border to cross with far more people?

They said, there would never be a united Germany when the wall was built but there is now.....
Ireland is small enough and imagine there's not many routes in, I'm sure that can be dealt with........Not wanting to get into arguments but there are trickier things in this world that's been dealt with, i'm sure there is one for this......

 

[BCFCRob]

They said, there would never be a united Germany when the wall was built but there is now.....
Ireland is small enough and imagine there's not many routes in, I'm sure that can be dealt with........Not wanting to get into arguments but there are trickier things in this world that's been dealt with, i'm sure there is one for this......

There are more crossings on the Ireland/UK border than the ENTIRE European border mate...

And what’s more tricky than stopping hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants wondering in across an unmanned border?

 

[wizered]

There are more crossings on the Ireland/UK border than the ENTIRE European border mate...

And what’s more tricky than stopping hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants wondering in across an unmanned border?

Population of Eire 2018 4,827,062, god help us by the way you are talking we will have roughly say 20% of Eire population sneaking in to our country in the first 6 months of our independence and we won't be able to anything about it, we will all be overwhelmed.

ROB it's project fear, it's a nonsense and I'm sure you don't really believe that will happen.

 

[BCFCRob]

Population of Eire 2018 4,827,062, god help us by the way you are talking we will have roughly say 20% of Eire population sneaking in to our country in the first 6 months of our independence and we won't be able to anything about it, we will all be overwhelmed.

ROB it's project fear, it's a nonsense and I'm sure you don't really believe that will happen.

Wiz, 500m people from the rest of the EU can travel into Eire legally via their EU passport. And then therefore into the UK. Correct or not?

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Wiz, 500m people from the rest of the EU can travel into Eire legally via their EU passport. And then therefore into the UK. Correct or not?

I don’t think they will would be my answer, I think a solution will be found, yes some will as they do now but with the aid of technology, anything’s possible and just think it’s a way of changing the minds of the leavers..

 

[wizered]

Wiz, 500m people from the rest of the EU can travel into Eire legally via their EU passport. And then therefore into the UK. Correct or not?

Do you honestly think we are going through all of this troube to control 500m people from Europe entering our country legally or illegally, yet we are wanting to trade openly and freely with the rest of the planet that has a population of 7.7 billion, can you see that lot sneaking in as well.

It's a nonsense, a remainer clarion call as already said and project fear

 

[BCFCRob]

I don’t think they will would be my answer, I think a solution will be found, yes some will as they do now but with the aid of technology, anything’s possible and just think it’s a way of changing the minds of the leavers..

Well that's all well and good mate but you believing that doesn't make it possible.

Do you honestly think we are going through all of this troube to control 500m people from Europe entering our country legally or illegally, yet we are wanting to trade openly and freely with the rest of the planet that has a population of 7.7 billion, can you see that lot sneaking in as well.

It's a nonsense, a remainer clarion call as already said and project fear

So if you don't mind 500m people being able to come into our country illegally, then I assume you would be happy to have a completely open border? Because that's essentially what you are saying.