The Third Meeting.

[dennisboothstash]

He’s offering an opinion, he has been rudely dealt with and challenged to offer his idea of a way forward - so why the aggressive and insulting attitude to someone who simply takes a different view to disliking and opposing the Allams? It’s very Allam-like and very poor.

My view on Ming is similar to Voltaire’s quote
“Think for yourselves, and allow others the privilege to do so, too.” (and no, he didn’t say the one about defending to the death people’s right to express views he disagreed with)
I don’t agree with his original position on how important knitwear was, but he has posted some interesting posts and it’s at least keeping the debate going

He has done exactly what you accused Ben of though, referring to others as ‘cavemen’ because he disagrees with their view

I think we all realise that you’ll get extreme views on here, but that’s often the fun of it. People will argue with each other, but nothing to get excited about...it’s not real life (these discussions over a pint would be much more conciliatory on everyone’s part...but not as much fun written down!)

I am interested in which part of Harlem he’s from though

Alllams Out

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

My view on Ming is similar to Voltaire’s quote
“Think for yourselves, and allow others the privilege to do so, too.” (and no, he didn’t say the one about defending to the death people’s right to express views he disagreed with)
I don’t agree with his original position on how important knitwear was, but he has posted some interesting posts and it’s at least keeping the debate going

He has done exactly what you accused Ben of though, referring to others as ‘cavemen’ because he disagrees with their view

I think we all realise that you’ll get extreme views on here, but that’s often the fun of it. People will argue with each other, but nothing to get excited about...it’s not real life (these discussions over a pint would be much more conciliatory on everyone’s part...but not as much fun written down!)

I am interested in which part of Harlem he’s from though

Alllams Out

He’s not from one particular place, he’s a globetrotter.

 

[Charon]

My view on Ming is similar to Voltaire’s quote
“Think for yourselves, and allow others the privilege to do so, too.” (and no, he didn’t say the one about defending to the death people’s right to express views he disagreed with)
I don’t agree with his original position on how important knitwear was, but he has posted some interesting posts and it’s at least keeping the debate going

He has done exactly what you accused Ben of though, referring to others as ‘cavemen’ because he disagrees with their view

I think we all realise that you’ll get extreme views on here, but that’s often the fun of it. People will argue with each other, but nothing to get excited about...it’s not real life (these discussions over a pint would be much more conciliatory on everyone’s part...but not as much fun written down!)

I am interested in which part of Harlem he’s from though

Alllams Out

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some guy kept a Tiger in his apartment in Harlem about 15 years ago

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

He’s not from one particular place, he’s a globetrotter.

A comic parody of the real thing?

 

[TIGERSCAVE]

Indirect action is not designed to get the pulses racing but, I would venture to suggest, it would cause more difficulties for the Allams than the “caveman” tactics being suggested on here.

MoH

Ive suggested nothing!!!! yet!!

 

[dennisboothstash]

Any protests that disrupt the game will be no more annoying than VAR.

Disrupting the games would be great, getting them abandoned would be better. There should be no boundaries.

It’s the West Park marches that I find futile. If a march is deemed necessary then make it to his house on a Saturday afternoon & protest outside it for the duration of the game & every game thereafter.

Spot on

(And brilliant introduction of VAR into the debate )

 

[juleskaren]

No it won’t. What you need to do is adopt a long term strategy. In the 1980s many animal cruelty charities used direct action to try and get animal laboratories closed down. What happened? Not much. Then, they got smart. They began to focus their attention on the people who supplied the animal laboratories with equipment, foodstuffs etc. They bought shares, they got people on the inside and then they applied financial pressure. They attended AGMs as shareholders. Result? A significant number of suppliers stopped doing business with the laboratories. They starved them of oxygen and they brought change to the industry. Through indirect action.

What can we do? Well, number one should be a blanket cancellation of memberships. Not piecemeal as it has been. This will send out a message that there is a united approach to challenging their ownership.

Number two, do not attend home/ away matches.

Number three, and this is where it gets interesting, collectively fund a forensic accountantcy firm to analyse the accounts of all of the Allams holdings (specifically focussing on those directly related to Hull City). We would be looking for financial irregularities obviously but it would also enable us to understand the structure of their business holdings. Concurrently we should look to understand the rules and regulations of the Premier League and the EFL. If they are guilty of omissions in failing to hold the Allams to account we should take legal action against them too.

That really is a rough outline of how I would approach this wicked problem.

And not one law broken!

MoH

You would never get every supporter to cancel their membership. I have not cancelled mine and have no intention of cancelling. I do not want to stay away from games either. My approach is I am not letting them stop me doing something I want to do (Okay I agree the results make it miserable at the moment). I would be in favour of their being more support but everyone united in their dislike of the Allams shown in something like the red card we used before. I am not in favour of anything that would disrupt the game and players on the pitch, got to be honest the ball throwing incident made me cringe. It is a very difficult situation and everyone has their own ideas of protest. I do like your other suggestion of looking into the accounts though.

 

[dennisboothstash]

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some guy kept a Tiger in his apartment in Harlem about 15 years ago

Ah
Well well
You do learn something every day ( well I do anyway)
Cheers Charon

 

[Gone For A Walk]

So concerned they cancelled the last meeting.

MoH

... and are now talking about rescheduling it to a few days before said game!

Another couple of weeks of them having to do nothing will have passed by, and, I'm sure they are hoping, plotting and scheming what they can say ahead of and during said meeting to head off the protests and save embarrassment to their name. Only then a few more weeks to go before the season's over. Mission accomplished. We're mugged off.

No, let them have hell. They deserve whatever is coming, and more.

 

[Quill]

The result was in those countries illegal action succeeded. They all had a functioning judicary.

Clearly Ming is one of those who liked the idea of the Tsar.

 

[originallambrettaman]

I am strongly against any protest that disrupts the game; for me that is not the way forward. It is very clear to me (and, therefore others) that GB is in bed with the HCAG - why else would he agree to the crass scarves proffering?

Many are labouring under the misapprehension that HullCityActionForChange are leading all the protests and are able to control what is and isn't going to happen and that's simply not the case.

 

[Barchullona]

My view on Ming is similar to Voltaire’s quote
“Think for yourselves, and allow others the privilege to do so, too.” (and no, he didn’t say the one about defending to the death people’s right to express views he disagreed with)
I don’t agree with his original position on how important knitwear was, but he has posted some interesting posts and it’s at least keeping the debate going

He has done exactly what you accused Ben of though, referring to others as ‘cavemen’ because he disagrees with their view

I think we all realise that you’ll get extreme views on here, but that’s often the fun of it. People will argue with each other, but nothing to get excited about...it’s not real life (these discussions over a pint would be much more conciliatory on everyone’s part...but not as much fun written down!)

I am interested in which part of Harlem he’s from though

Alllams Out

Glad someone else knows Voltaire was only quoting the person who originally said that.

 

[bunkers]

So the allams don't like AFC any more - surely this cannot be to get back at Hull City Action For Change (AFC).

 

[Barchullona]

Clearly Ming is one of those who liked the idea of the Tsar.

Probably didn't think we had a functioning judiciry when the illegal actions of the suffragettes brought about change, or the USA when the civil rights movement brought an end to segregation. Or the French at the time of their revolution

 

[Quill]

Probably didn't think we had a functioning judiciry when the illegal actions of the suffragettes brought about change, or the USA when the civil rights movement brought an end to segregation. Or the French at the time of their revolution

Careful Castro, context matters.

 

[dennisboothstash]

Glad someone else knows Voltaire was only quoting the person who originally said that.

Hmm
Actually I can’t recall exactly (apart from the fact it’s often misquoted as him)
I thought it was someone else’s quote describing Voltaire’s general view on things
I didn’t think Voltaire had said it all, even as a quote of someone else

Ming might know

 

[Barchullona]

Careful Castro, context matters.

You got to listen to some great singers on Civil Rights marches though. The crowd there was probably the largest crowd anyone had performed live in front of at the time.

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[ImperialTiger]

No it won’t. What you need to do is adopt a long term strategy. In the 1980s many animal cruelty charities used direct action to try and get animal laboratories closed down. What happened? Not much. Then, they got smart. They began to focus their attention on the people who supplied the animal laboratories with equipment, foodstuffs etc. They bought shares, they got people on the inside and then they applied financial pressure. They attended AGMs as shareholders. Result? A significant number of suppliers stopped doing business with the laboratories. They starved them of oxygen and they brought change to the industry. Through indirect action.

What can we do? Well, number one should be a blanket cancellation of memberships. Not piecemeal as it has been. This will send out a message that there is a united approach to challenging their ownership.

Number two, do not attend home/ away matches.

Number three, and this is where it gets interesting, collectively fund a forensic accountantcy firm to analyse the accounts of all of the Allams holdings (specifically focussing on those directly related to Hull City). We would be looking for financial irregularities obviously but it would also enable us to understand the structure of their business holdings. Concurrently we should look to understand the rules and regulations of the Premier League and the EFL. If they are guilty of omissions in failing to hold the Allams to account we should take legal action against them too.

That really is a rough outline of how I would approach this wicked problem.

And not one law broken!

MoH

1. What do the fans want? I would guess that, at a base level, people would be happy with new owners (who will bring back concessions and use the club's name) and the club still being in existence.

In short, the owners to leave without liquidating the club. I'm sure most would accept administration if those aims were achieved.

2. How do you make the current owners leave (putting aside that no one tells them when to leave and this question will be perceived as a veiled threat)?

They will go when they are ready and not before. They want their gift back and the only leverage the fans have over them is whether they can prevent the £77m owed to Allamhouse at the end of 30 Jun 2017 from being repaid. Outside of this, I'm sure the Allams don't care what happens to Hull City Tigers Ltd.

With every parachute payment that is paid, the ability for the fans to influence this diminishes (I personally would say that somehow blocking payment from the Premier league to the club is the ONLY way to influence the Allam's departure without resorting to nefarious means).

Getting the club fined due to pitch invasion will cost the club, but not the Allams (unless the directors get fined), so I doubt they care if that happens. As long as they get their last tranches of parachute payments, and clear the loan to Allamhouse, I reckon they'll be happy. If they bring in a 3rd party at the end of the season, it'll be with the aim of making the club break even with crowds of 3k (i.e. Get ready to see lots of cheap youth players playing 50 games).

 

[brownbagtiger]

No it won’t. What you need to do is adopt a long term strategy. In the 1980s many animal cruelty charities used direct action to try and get animal laboratories closed down. What happened? Not much. Then, they got smart. They began to focus their attention on the people who supplied the animal laboratories with equipment, foodstuffs etc. They bought shares, they got people on the inside and then they applied financial pressure. They attended AGMs as shareholders. Result? A significant number of suppliers stopped doing business with the laboratories. They starved them of oxygen and they brought change to the industry. Through indirect action

......

And not one law broken!

actually, the biggest factor in changing the industry was convincing the law makers that the compulsive testing they were requiring (such as LD50, the amount of chemical needed to kill half the rats or rabbits you dosed) was meaningless in terms of determining safety for humans, and pointless and cruel. Changing the law and rules to ensure that testing is only done when absolutely necessary and done ethically as possible was far more effective.

Targeting suppliers of the laboratories only drove them abroad - the data is still required by law, it has to be generated somewhere. And animal welfare laws in the U.K. are some of the strictest in the world - the animal world certainly isn’t better off if testing happens in other, “cheaper” countries.

So, by that analogy, we should be targeting the FA and EFL to enforce existing laws and rules about fit and proper owners, and campaigning for new laws and rules where there are gaps that allow twattish behaviour by owners.

 

[Evington]

No it won’t. What you need to do is adopt a long term strategy. In the 1980s many animal cruelty charities used direct action to try and get animal laboratories closed down. What happened? Not much. Then, they got smart. They began to focus their attention on the people who supplied the animal laboratories with equipment, foodstuffs etc. They bought shares, they got people on the inside and then they applied financial pressure. They attended AGMs as shareholders. Result? A significant number of suppliers stopped doing business with the laboratories. They starved them of oxygen and they brought change to the industry. Through indirect action.

What can we do? Well, number one should be a blanket cancellation of memberships. Not piecemeal as it has been. This will send out a message that there is a united approach to challenging their ownership.

Number two, do not attend home/ away matches.

Number three, and this is where it gets interesting, collectively fund a forensic accountantcy firm to analyse the accounts of all of the Allams holdings (specifically focussing on those directly related to Hull City). We would be looking for financial irregularities obviously but it would also enable us to understand the structure of their business holdings. Concurrently we should look to understand the rules and regulations of the Premier League and the EFL. If they are guilty of omissions in failing to hold the Allams to account we should take legal action against them too.

That really is a rough outline of how I would approach this wicked problem.

And not one law broken!

MoH

Although to me at least, it seems it is too late in the day to adopt this approach (forensic accountancy firm). The first and second would have impacted without doubt.