Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

[saintanton]

I do find it bizarre that the people of this country that donned the jacket of progressive liberalism and bathed in the gift of democracy are now the ones screaming for us to ignore a democratic process at its most basic level.

If they truly believed there shouldn't be any referendum at all, you say so from the start and refuse to legitimise it by taking part. That's what Scotland and Northern Ireland, London should have done. Why didn't they? They thought they were going to win that's why. You can't accept the legitimacy of a political process and take part only accepting the result on the basis that you will win.

Then theres this new theory that the stupid, or gullible or even racist should be disqualified from voting...eeerrrm only people I remember putting voting qualifications into the system were Deep South politicians and the Apartheid SA govt...to stop blacks getting the vote...same list of reasons I'm hearing now from the pious intelligentsia..kind takes thevery pedestal out from under their feet.

Then theres the argument that some in the Leave campaign lied somehow renders the result invalid. ignoring the fact there were lies spouted on each side of this specific campaign..name me an election where the truth isn't at least fudged to downright manufactured? So exactly what result in any election would pass this test???

And what ever happened to the online rule (Godwin Law?) that the debates over when you reference Nazi Germany? Lol

I get your point about democracy, Frank, but how is that suggestion going to work? How does abstention undermine the legitimacy of the vote? All that does is give a free run to the other side.
Scotland NI and London are not homogeneous entities with some sort of single block vote.
Nobody knew how they were voting until it was done.

 

[Zanjinho]

Is that what you're doing? I don't want to get into a big argument with you, but it really doesn't come across like that.
It seems like you're trying to close down any discussion by repeating the "get over it" mantra.
Like it or not, this has got legs.

Nope, just posting snippets and watching the reaction mate. Basically, I'm being a ****

For me, it is a "get over it" situation but I also know not everyone can do that and I understand people being b passionate about it too.

I'm not happy about certain aspects as stated earlier in the thread (currently trying to move but this is supposedly going to effect house prices and mortgage rates etc) but as I've also said, what can I do about it?

I'm a very laid back person and I believe things always work out no matter how difficult or daunting things may seem.

In a nut shell; I've got my family so who gives a ****!

 

[saintanton]

Nope, just posting snippets and watching the reaction mate. Basically, I'm being a ****

For me, it is a "get over it" situation but I also know not everyone can do that and I understand people being b passionate about it too.

I'm not happy about certain aspects as stated earlier in the thread (currently trying to move but this is supposedly going to effect house prices and mortgage rates etc) but as I've also said, what can I do about it?

I'm a very laid back person and I believe things always work out no matter how difficult or daunting things may seem.

In a nut shell; I've got my family so who gives a ****!

Fair enough. I personally feel it's sad that you can't see further than that, but that's your business.
I'll stick to debating it with those who want to.

 

[Zanjinho]

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[DirtyFrank]

I get your point about democracy, Frank, but how is that suggestion going to work? How does abstention undermine the legitimacy of the vote? All that does is give a free run to the other side.
Scotland NI and London are not homogeneous entities with some sort of single block vote.
Nobody knew how they were voting until it was done.

No. I'm not saying it's a perfect idea but then I'm not complaining or challenging the process I took part in just because the result went against me (not saying you are either Saint)

IT was pretty evident without the vote how those three regions would vote..maybe London is a bit of a grey area but the other two are states within states that were always going to want to stay in the EU. If they had called for abstention rather than "vote remain" on the basis that it was a weighted system against those two states and the majority of the populace didn't vote..it would render the outcome in those areas meaningless and while it wouldn't have stopped the referendum or the result it could have been challenged with more authority by SNP and NI parties afterwards.

Rather than participating then asking for the result to be voided because it didn't go the way they wanted. Only saying it was an option open to them to highlight the lunacy of taking part then refusing to accept the result which was my main point. That and the truly horrendous idea of somehow qualifying who could or could not vote. That sounds like the Nazis more than anything I heard from the Brexit camp...(dammit broke Godwins law again lol)

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

May is a massive advocate of removing freedoms and privacy from uk citizens. She isn't someone I would want having full control. Now whilst I'm not suggesting Boris is some kind of brilliant choice, I would choose him over her. My personal preference would be for someone with a bit of integrity like Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Hence meh...

Johnson is awful.

 

[saintanton]

No. I'm not saying it's a perfect idea but then I'm not complaining or challenging the process I took part in just because the result went against me (not saying you are either Saint)

IT was pretty evident without the vote how those three regions would vote..maybe London is a bit of a grey area but the other two are states within states that were always going to want to stay in the EU. If they had called for abstention rather than "vote remain" on the basis that it was a weighted system against those two states and the majority of the populace didn't vote..it would render the outcome in those areas meaningless and while it wouldn't have stopped the referendum or the result it could have been challenged with more authority by SNP and NI parties afterwards.

Rather than participating then asking for the result to be voided because it didn't go the way they wanted. Only saying it was an option open to them to highlight the lunacy of taking part then refusing to accept the result which was my main point. That and the truly horrendous idea of somehow qualifying who could or could not vote. That sounds like the Nazis more than anything I heard from the Brexit camp...(dammit broke Godwins law again lol)

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure of the legal situation there. I'd imagine they would just be told they had their chance to have their say, and that's it. The point of the referendum is that it's a simple majority vote, and regional analysis may be interesting and informative, but isn't really relevant.
As for saying certain groups can't vote, has anyone seriously suggested that? Absurd on every level.
"Excuse me sir, are you a racist?"
"Damn right I am. Here's my card"
"Sorry, you can't vote"
"Oh, alright then. Bye for now"

 

[afcftw]

Hence meh...

Johnson is awful.

Those two as the options is rather "meh" - I'm hoping there are others who throw there hats into the ring.

Do I still need to be sectioned?

 

[carlthejackal]

And she lost that vote, partially due to the populous decision that their EU membership was of great value.

By now pointing out that there's no mandate for withdrawal in Scotland she's doing her ****ing job.

I'll take her over any of the English politicians. The latter seem like pygmies next to her with her clear no nonsense speaking.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I get your point about democracy, Frank, but how is that suggestion going to work? How does abstention undermine the legitimacy of the vote? All that does is give a free run to the other side.
Scotland NI and London are not homogeneous entities with some sort of single block vote.
Nobody knew how they were voting until it was done.

Besides which, when Farage conceded at 10pm Thursday when he thought he'd lost. he had a list of excuses and pledges for the fight to go on, more referendums, etc. But he won - oh wait, the process stops now and that's that, is it?

Democratically, I utterly accept the referendum decision and that we're out of the EU. Democratically I have the right to point out (especially when the evidence is so overwhelming) that there were many racist reasons for the vote going that way. Put it this way, if there was a plebiscite tomorrow to round up 'Pakis' and throw them in detention camps and deport them, are you confident that wouldn't win at least a third of the vote outside London, Scotland and most trans Pennine cities? Possibly even a majority in places like Sunderland, Barnsley and Wolverhampton.

Again, the glib point that not all Brexit is racist, but all racists are Brexit, but more importantly was that the majority was 1.3m - does anyone seriously deny Brexit had well over that number who voted for racist reasons?

 

[carlthejackal]

Besides which, when Farage conceded at 10pm Thursday when he thought he'd lost. he had a list of excuses and pledges for the fight to go on, more referendums, etc. But he won - oh wait, the process stops now and that's that, is it?

Democratically, I utterly accept the referendum decision and that we're out of the EU. Democratically I have the right to point out (especially when the evidence is so overwhelming) that there were many racist reasons for the vote going that way. Put it this way, if there was a plebiscite tomorrow to round up 'Pakis' and throw them in detention camps and deport them, are you confident that wouldn't win at least a third of the vote outside London, Scotland and most trans Pennine cities? Possibly even a majority in places like Sunderland, Barnsley and Wolverhampton.

Again, the glib point that not all Brexit is racist, but all racists are Brexit, but more importantly was that the majority was 1.3m - does anyone seriously deny Brexit had well over that number who voted for racist reasons?

Undeniable.

The amount of racism AND xenophobia shown before and after the referendum has been appalling. It has now been reported that there have been an increase in attacks against European migrants like Polish people in the last 2 days. In places like Oxford and Cambridge and others.

I pointed out 2 weeks ago that the language used by Boris Gove Patel and others aping Farage was totally irresponsible. Once they wake up the monster, they cannot hope to get it to sleep again or even to control it. They talked about controlling the migrants like one would control pests. "Swarm, Flooding, uncontrolled" words which were expected from the mouths of UKIP members but when uttered by supposedly respected politicians in the ruling party lend them a legitimacy which is utterly dangerous.

It is time that these politicians are slapped down and told in no uncertain terms that they have crossed a line. No objective not even Brexit is worth the spectre of racial strife in this tolerant country of ours.

 

[Treble]

Besides which, when Farage conceded at 10pm Thursday when he thought he'd lost. he had a list of excuses and pledges for the fight to go on, more referendums, etc. But he won - oh wait, the process stops now and that's that, is it?

Democratically, I utterly accept the referendum decision and that we're out of the EU. Democratically I have the right to point out (especially when the evidence is so overwhelming) that there were many racist reasons for the vote going that way. Put it this way, if there was a plebiscite tomorrow to round up 'Pakis' and throw them in detention camps and deport them, are you confident that wouldn't win at least a third of the vote outside London, Scotland and most trans Pennine cities? Possibly even a majority in places like Sunderland, Barnsley and Wolverhampton.

Again, the glib point that not all Brexit is racist, but all racists are Brexit, but more importantly was that the majority was 1.3m - does anyone seriously deny Brexit had well over that number who voted for racist reasons?

I prefer not to call them racists, but more like xenophobes. And THIS is exactly what a few of us were saying yesterday on the PL board. There's at least 5% who you could say fall into that bracket, along with the mongs who made the decision without looking at the facts but going on soundbites, and finally those who actually didn't eeven know that the decision was final... yes I kid you not, there are people who did not realise the finite implication of a Leave vote... and are now regretting it ffs!

 

[Treble]

David Cameron: Luis Suarez criticises 'appalling' campaign

Barcelona striker Luis Suarez says Prime Minister David Cameron set "the most appalling example" by losing the referendum of the United Kingdom's membership of the European Union.

"As a dad and as a human being, do I think we should have tough penalties when politicians behave like this? Yes," Mr Suarez told BBC Radio 5 live.

Mr Suarez had said that "it would be very understandable if the voters took into account that high-profile politicians are often role models".

"I made my own views clear, just as a dad watching the referendum," Mr Suarez added.

"I have a three-year-old son who loves Europe, loves watching debates and when politicians behave like this, it sets the most appalling example to young people in our country."

Woaaah!!! he certainly took a bite out of him there

 

[DirtyFrank]

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure of the legal situation there. I'd imagine they would just be told they had their chance to have their say, and that's it. The point of the referendum is that it's a simple majority vote, and regional analysis may be interesting and informative, but isn't really relevant.
As for saying certain groups can't vote, has anyone seriously suggested that? Absurd on every level.
"Excuse me sir, are you a racist?"
"Damn right I am. Here's my card"
"Sorry, you can't vote"
"Oh, alright then. Bye for now"

Has it been said as an official policy? Not that I've heard. Has the idea that some people are too stupid or too xenophobic to have their vote counted been aired? Yes...

 

[Treble]

Those two as the options is rather "meh" - I'm hoping there are others who throw there hats into the ring.

Do I still need to be sectioned?

Just for supporting Arsenal, yes

 

[Diego]

Are we to assume that everybody who voted remain knew exactly why they were doing it and what the consequences would be, did they each and all vote for a perfect righteous reason?

 

[DirtyFrank]

I prefer not to call them racists, but more like xenophobes. And THIS is exactly what a few of us were saying yesterday on the PL board. There's at least 5% who you could say fall into that bracket, along with the mongs who made the decision without looking at the facts but going on soundbites, and finally those who actually didn't eeven know that the decision was final... yes I kid you not, there are people who did not realise the finite implication of a Leave vote... and are now regretting it ffs!

All who have the right to vote, all based on their various unsavoury or questionable reasoning. That's the downside of allowing everyone a vote. But there's no viable alternative that doesn't lead to totalitarianism.

I'm reluctant to claim all 17.5 million of these people all fall into the brackets you named.

 

[Treble]

Are we to assume that everybody who voted remain knew exactly why they were doing it and what the consequences would be, did they each and all vote for a perfect righteous reason?

We're only going by what we see. Can you give poor examples of those who voted Remain? Don't get me wrong, there are idiots on both side, but I can't see any reasons that cross the line like some of those who voted out. And nobody who voted remain is saying afterwards, "ah I got it wrong"

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I prefer not to call them racists, but more like xenophobes. And THIS is exactly what a few of us were saying yesterday on the PL board. There's at least 5% who you could say fall into that bracket, along with the mongs who made the decision without looking at the facts but going on soundbites, and finally those who actually didn't eeven know that the decision was final... yes I kid you not, there are people who did not realise the finite implication of a Leave vote... and are now regretting it ffs!

I related the story yesterday of my daughter, an NUS rep at Teeside, trying to motivate some to get registered and vote. "Oh, but Brexit is bound to get in here (Middlesbrough)' she was told on several occasions. And they're university students.

 

[Treble]

All who have the right to vote, all based on their various unsavoury or questionable reasoning. That's the downside of allowing everyone a vote. But there's no viable alternative that doesn't lead to totalitarianism.

I'm reluctant to claim all 17.5 million of these people all fall into the brackets you named.

No not at all. I said a good 5% (and that's being modest) of the 17.5 million easily did. Actually I'd go as far as to say it's a lot higher than that.