How will our NHS have £100m a week more spent on it? By Boris Pollard, Gove-adder and Wayne Duncan Smith? The same people who suggested privatisation, consultation charges and contracting out?
Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...
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How will our NHS have £100m a week more spent on it? By Boris Pollard, Gove-adder and Wayne Duncan Smith? The same people who suggested privatisation, consultation charges and contracting out?
Thats why I've voted out. TTIP opens the NHS to privitisation companies. At least if we block it, we can stop the Tories selling it off.
The City of London will implode? Good - it's high time for a re distribution of wealth. The City doesnt give a toss about any of us. They made us poorer with the recession while they got wealthier.
If you really think that the City crashing will someone generate a positive in terms of wealth redistribution, then you seriously need to go and give your head a wobble mate.
Interest rate hikes, unemployment, pay freezes, pension pots decimated, house prices crashing, a complete contraction of the entire economy due to a lack of liquid cash from the man in the streets spending power being massively reduced........sounds idyllic.....
Ok when the dust settles and the uk is a backwater give me a call.. if you can find a phone by the sounds of it.
Interesting that your signature shows Italy. Their economy is on the brink, with France not far behind. Now I accept everyone is suspicious of so-called 'facts' in this referendum with Remainers shamelessly scare-mongering and some Brexiteers stretching the truth at times, but what I've just posted is absolutely a fact. The Italians and French cannot service their current levels of debt unless there is a very dramatic turnaround in their economies. Some quick research will prove this to be the case. They are the two worst economies in the EU right now:
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/04/28/frances-economic-woes-in-charts/
Ask yourself where you want us to be when that particular explosion happens. Another Greek bailout is also looming.
But whether you accept this or not it doesn't matter really. So many conflicting arguments on both sides. It's a personal choice, and for me it boils down to one thing - an obscene lack of democracy. The unelected Commissioners must forsake their national interest and promote EU integration as part of their oath of office. Can you name ours? I had to look him up. It is they that initiate legislation - laws that not a single European citizen has voted for or in many cases wants. Our elected MEPs offer nothing more than a debating chamber with less powers than our own House of Lords (another democratic obscenity). They are forbidden from proposing a bill to the European Parliament - that mechanism doesn't exist. If you need something changed in your life that the EU holds sway over don't bother writing to your MEP because they can't do anything. How is that defensible?
When the Swedish Commissioner in charge of the secret TTIP trade negotiations said "I hold no mandate from the European people" many were shocked that she should say it. Thing is, she was dead right. Greenpeace had to leak that document as MEPs were forbidden to tell their constituents about its content....and having read it you wonder why Obama wants us to remain? Come on.
So for me that's what matters. Our system in the U.K is far from democratic but the British people have recently rejected PR so we're stuck with FPTP for now and have to deal with it. But the EU is flagrantly anti-democratic and an insult to everything a modern, Western democracy stands for. In essence, it's a dictatorship. I know it's a little dramatic but one wonders why thousands of men ran up the beaches in Normandy in 1944 and got their heads blown off doesn't it? Since then our leaders have gradually given away our democratic rights without anyone noticing, like water slowly leaking out of a bath because of a loose plug and before you know it you're freezing your bollocks off.
If you think that the way the EU works is a trade off for the 'good' it brings' then you'll vote to remain. Personally, it makes me sick to my stomach.
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/04/28/frances-economic-woes-in-charts/
Ask yourself where you want us to be when that particular explosion happens. Another Greek bailout is also looming.
But whether you accept this or not it doesn't matter really. So many conflicting arguments on both sides. It's a personal choice, and for me it boils down to one thing - an obscene lack of democracy. The unelected Commissioners must forsake their national interest and promote EU integration as part of their oath of office. Can you name ours? I had to look him up. It is they that initiate legislation - laws that not a single European citizen has voted for or in many cases wants. Our elected MEPs offer nothing more than a debating chamber with less powers than our own House of Lords (another democratic obscenity). They are forbidden from proposing a bill to the European Parliament - that mechanism doesn't exist. If you need something changed in your life that the EU holds sway over don't bother writing to your MEP because they can't do anything. How is that defensible?
When the Swedish Commissioner in charge of the secret TTIP trade negotiations said "I hold no mandate from the European people" many were shocked that she should say it. Thing is, she was dead right. Greenpeace had to leak that document as MEPs were forbidden to tell their constituents about its content....and having read it you wonder why Obama wants us to remain? Come on.
So for me that's what matters. Our system in the U.K is far from democratic but the British people have recently rejected PR so we're stuck with FPTP for now and have to deal with it. But the EU is flagrantly anti-democratic and an insult to everything a modern, Western democracy stands for. In essence, it's a dictatorship. I know it's a little dramatic but one wonders why thousands of men ran up the beaches in Normandy in 1944 and got their heads blown off doesn't it? Since then our leaders have gradually given away our democratic rights without anyone noticing, like water slowly leaking out of a bath because of a loose plug and before you know it you're freezing your bollocks off.
If you think that the way the EU works is a trade off for the 'good' it brings' then you'll vote to remain. Personally, it makes me sick to my stomach.
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This is what a campaign of disinformation and lies does for you.
Suddenly a band of rich extreme right wingers and billionaire newspaper owners favour the poor working man and want a redistribution of wealth. They are now against the City and would now want to spend all the money saved put into the struggling NHS when a few weeks ago they wanted privatisation and all sorts of right wing solutions. Brexit will make all working men richer by diverting these £350m to the public sector and to the poor
IF we believe these blatant lies we are a band of thickos and we deserve every **** that's coming our way.
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We're not part of the Eurozone and have no responsibility for any bailout that may or may not end up being necessary, so what's your point?
The leave camp does not now bother to hide their lies.
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Today, in response to questions about this from journalist, the IFS has put a short statement on its website saying Gove was misrepresenting its analysis. It says:
Michael Gove claimed on Friday that the IFS had said that leaving the EU would free up £8bn to spend on the NHS. We have not said that. We have looked carefully at the likely public finance implications. We conclude that the net UK contribution to the EU over the next few years is indeed likely to be about £8bn a year, £8bn which would become available for other things were we to leave. However we also point out that even a small negative effect of just 0.6% on national income from leaving the EU would damage the public finances by more than that £8bn. There is virtual unanimity among economic forecasters that the negative economic effect of leaving the EU would be greater than that. That is why we conclude that leaving the EU would not, as Michael Gove claims we said, leave more money to spend on the NHS. Rather it would leave us spending less on public services, or taxing more, or borrowing more.
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And everything else being repeated by the right wing press are also blatant speculation and untruths.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-live-cameron-harman-leave-campaign-con-trick
__________________________
Today, in response to questions about this from journalist, the IFS has put a short statement on its website saying Gove was misrepresenting its analysis. It says:
Michael Gove claimed on Friday that the IFS had said that leaving the EU would free up £8bn to spend on the NHS. We have not said that. We have looked carefully at the likely public finance implications. We conclude that the net UK contribution to the EU over the next few years is indeed likely to be about £8bn a year, £8bn which would become available for other things were we to leave. However we also point out that even a small negative effect of just 0.6% on national income from leaving the EU would damage the public finances by more than that £8bn. There is virtual unanimity among economic forecasters that the negative economic effect of leaving the EU would be greater than that. That is why we conclude that leaving the EU would not, as Michael Gove claims we said, leave more money to spend on the NHS. Rather it would leave us spending less on public services, or taxing more, or borrowing more.
____________________________________
And everything else being repeated by the right wing press are also blatant speculation and untruths.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-live-cameron-harman-leave-campaign-con-trick
If I have to explain the 'point' about the concept of anti-democracy then I'm wasting my time. I thought it was pretty clear. You're either fine with it or you're not.
As for bailouts, I never mentioned that word pertaining to France and Italy. I merely point out that the Eurozone is doomed (I actually think the EU in its current format has had it regardless of 23rd June) and I think the further away we are from it when it inevitably happens the better. If we are able to trade on our own terms with the rest of the world more freely, the French and Italian economies, as part of a trading bloc that hasn't grown in over 10 years, will have less of an impact on the U.K. when they implode.
But such things can be debated upon. I've yet to see a credible counter to the democratic deficit argument - mainly because there isn't one.
FYI kifflom, the reason MITO has italy alongside most of the board members having different flags is because they have to show them in their Pool Euro Sweepstake teams XD
The same IFS that failed to predict the 2008 crash? The one that gets a lump of its funding from Brussels? That one?
Maybe you should think more about a Chancellor who created the ONS because Treasury forecasts "cannot be trusted" yet now he's putting forward (wait for it)...Treasury forecasts.
Future is the most difficult thing to predict, but it is better to be safe than sorry. If there is going be war a crippled person needs
to start his running before others...(that's a wise crippled man).The devil you know is better than the angel you do not know.
Britain remaining in Europe is the safest option.
to start his running before others...(that's a wise crippled man).The devil you know is better than the angel you do not know.
Britain remaining in Europe is the safest option.
The same IFS that failed to predict the 2008 crash? The one that gets 10% of its funding from Brussels? That one?
The IFS is not 100% infallible in all its predictions etc. But they are as independent as any. It is interesting that not a single economist or any reputable organisation (out of hundreds) has come out to support any of the economic predictions of the leave camp. They must all be in the pockets of the remain camp
. This is what a campaign of disinformation does for you. Suddenly you cannnot distinguish the wood from the trees.When you have a group of rabid right wingers like Gove, Patel, Duncan Smith and Murdoch and other rich newspaper owners on one side and then mostly the Labour party people and the unions on the other, and you truly believe the former must be in favour of the working man and a redistribution of wealth.
The 'safest option"? Please. With uncontrolled immigration meaning house prices soar so that youngsters can't get on the housing ladder, with over-stretched NHS hospitals and GPs, with people in parts of the country unable to get their kids into a school? With a city the size of Newcastle landing on us every year and with every possibility of that rising when the minimum wage goes up. With the inevitable arrival of Albania, Macedonia and Turkey at some time in the future? With the head of Interpol saying that 5,000 Jihadis have already come through? Safe? For whom, exactly?
This is an interactive map showing ONLY migrant crime in Germany during the first three moths of this year. These are official figures. You may want to stick your head in the sand but this is reality. Note the phenomenon of swimming pool sexual assaults. No, of course not every migrant is like this but it cannot be ignored. It should not be ignored:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs
Safe? You're having a laugh.
Besides, nobody's had a crack at the question of the democratic deficit yet. Any takers?
This is an interactive map showing ONLY migrant crime in Germany during the first three moths of this year. These are official figures. You may want to stick your head in the sand but this is reality. Note the phenomenon of swimming pool sexual assaults. No, of course not every migrant is like this but it cannot be ignored. It should not be ignored:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs
Safe? You're having a laugh.
Besides, nobody's had a crack at the question of the democratic deficit yet. Any takers?
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I didn't know Kate Hoey, Jim Mellon, George Galloway or the various trades unionists I've seen on the Brexit side were rabid right wingers.The IFS is not 100% infallible in all its predictions etc. But they are as independent as any. It is interesting that not a single economist or any reputable organisation (out of hundreds) has come out to support any of the economic predictions of the leave camp. They must all be in the pockets of the remain camp
When you have a group of rabid right wingers like Gove, Patel, Duncan Smith and Murdoch and other rich newspaper owners on one side and then mostly the Labour party people and the unions on the other, and you truly believe the former must be in favour of the working man and a redistribution of wealth.
Do you genuinely think that Corbyn wants to remain? A 32 year parliamentary career in which he consistently criticised the EU as did people like Foot and Benn in the past. Even Kinnock, until he discover the gravy train and earned about £10M out of it thank you very much.
Corbyn on Maastricht: The treaty "takes away from national parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers who will impose the economic policies of price stability, deflation and high unemployment throughout the European Community".
He voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and in one article on his website, said the EU had "always suffered a serious democratic deficit".
Anyone who thinks this man is a genuine remainer is deluded.
If you completely comprehend what another Eurozone default would mean to the UK i.e. nothing, then you bringing it up in the context you did was totally disingenuous.
As for a supposed 'democratic deficit', we have a very strong position within the EU and voice (and veto) has allowed us to rebuff any form of federalism ideas, including the Euro.
Some of our strongest areas of economic development are virtually exclusively funded with EU money. Most of our University R&D being one for example. If you think this would be replaced with cash from the UK Govt post the economic fallout following an exit from the EU, then you're going to be disappointed
The IFS is not 100% infallible in all its predictions etc. But they are as independent as any. It is interesting that not a single economist or any reputable organisation (out of hundreds) has come out to support any of the economic predictions of the leave camp. They must all be in the pockets of the remain camp. This is what a campaign of disinformation does for you. Suddenly you cannnot distinguish the wood from the trees.
When you have a group of rabid right wingers like Gove, Patel, Duncan Smith and Murdoch and other rich newspaper owners on one side and then mostly the Labour party people and the unions on the other, and you truly believe the former must be in favour of the working man and a redistribution of wealth.
Hmmmm.... whilst i don't think the economy will get better, i thought i would put the line in bold highlighted to test Just did a quick google and voila
http://www.economistsforbrexit.co.uk/about-us/
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/economists-reject-brexit-boost-cameron - this suggests 1 in 10 support brexit.
For those too lazy about the leading economists in link 1:
PROFESSOR PATRICK MINFORD
Professor of Economics at Cardiff University, formerly director and founder of Liverpool Research Group which built the ‘Liverpool Model’ Of the UK economy, which was hugely influential in forecasting and policy analysis in the 1980s.
RYAN BOURNE
Head of public policy at the Institute of Economic Affairs. Having previously worked for the Centre for Policy Studies and Frontier Economics, he has written widely on a range of economic issues.
ROGER BOOTLE
Chairman of Capital Economics, Europe’s largest macroeconomics consultancy. He is a specialist adviser to the House of Commons Treasury Select Committee and the author of several award winning books on the economy.
etc etc
Also the managing director of Goldman Sachs (The invesment bank which predicted the 2008 crash) David Sismey also believes money would be saved in a brexit and supports it.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/eu-vote-300-business-leaders-064951596.html
Weak, floppy effort of a response.
You completely misunderstand the concept of federalism. It actually works. Having lived in the U.S and Australia, the idea of larger countries having localised governments that defer on some issues to a national parliament is a good thing. The EU is not federalist, it's a dictatorship. The central body that sets down 64% of our laws (on our own government's figures) is unelected and can't be removed by the people....and that doesn't bother you?
If our "strong voice" is so effective why are we increasingly being outvoted on matters in the Council? The VoteWatch Europe study found that during EU Council votes between 2009-15 “the UK government was on the losing side a far higher proportion of times than any other EU government”.
In the EU Parlaiment it's even worse.Between 2009 and 2014, 1936 votes were held in the European Parliament, and 576 of them were opposed by a majority of the UK’s 73 elected representatives, but of those, 485 were still passed.
Yes a very "strong voice".
Nice try on the democratic deficit. Try again. I'll return later to mark your homework.
