Off Topic WW3 How Close?

[Smug in Boots]

I think it is unfair to put Zelenskyy in the same category as Trump and Putin, he is a victim of their policies.

I did think that as I posted but there's something that's irked me from the start of this conflict.

I said, from the outset, that he would've been better off finding a quick and peaceful solution even at the expense of territory. I felt, all along, that less would've been given up and countless lives saved not to mention the immense cost and destruction.

I know that may looked defeatist but any peace deal will be a defeat however it's painted.

 

[Ozzymac]

I did think that as I posted but there's something that's irked me from the start of this conflict.

I said, from the outset, that he would've been better off finding a quick and peaceful solution even at the expense of territory. I felt, all along, that less would've been given up and countless lives saved not to mention the immense cost and destruction.

I know that may looked defeatist but any peace deal will be a defeat however it's painted.

If Russia had said they wanted the North East would you have thought it's better to give up region to save lives etc?
I undertsand what you're trying to say but it's an easy solution to come up with from afar when it doesnt affect someone personally

 

[Smug in Boots]

If Russia had said they wanted the North East would you have thought it's better to give up region to save lives etc?
I undertsand what you're trying to say but it's an easy solution to come up with from afar when it doesnt affect someone personally

To misquote Pulp Fiction ' it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same sport'.

For hundreds of years the North East has been part of Britain, Ukraine, or parts of it, has changed hand countless times in the last hundred years. Ukraine has taken advantage whenever possible and 'foreigners' haven't always been welcomed.

It's always been a volatile part of the world and has served various masters. I'm still not convinced there hasn't been huge corruption and people taking stances to suit their own interests. In all honesty I'm not too sure of my 'facts' but I don't believe everyone else is. When Trump declared he'd put in people 'to control the country's mineral resources' there wasn't the outcry I'd expected. I don't know who'd benefit most but I doubt those at the top would be left impoverished.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Cats .
I love them .

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[Daz]

I did think that as I posted but there's something that's irked me from the start of this conflict.

I said, from the outset, that he would've been better off finding a quick and peaceful solution even at the expense of territory. I felt, all along, that less would've been given up and countless lives saved not to mention the immense cost and destruction.

I know that may looked defeatist but any peace deal will be a defeat however it's painted.

IMO giving up any territory would have led to another invasion for more territory, that's just how Putin thinks.

He would see it as a victory and as he pushes his luck constantly that would never be the end of it. I really think that's the reason the neighboring NATO countries are bolstering their military powers. He will 100% move into another country eventually.

And now Trump is at it....

 

[Ozzymac]

Whilst the current country Ukraine has changed hands many times of the last few hunders years it has been it's own independent country since the disolving of the USSR. History is irrelevant as at the end of the day no foreign country has the right to take any part of yours.

 

[Row 3]

To misquote Pulp Fiction ' it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same sport'.

For hundreds of years the North East has been part of Britain, Ukraine, or parts of it, has changed hand countless times in the last hundred years. Ukraine has taken advantage whenever possible and 'foreigners' haven't always been welcomed.

It's always been a volatile part of the world and has served various masters. I'm still not convinced there hasn't been huge corruption and people taking stances to suit their own interests. In all honesty I'm not too sure of my 'facts' but I don't believe everyone else is. When Trump declared he'd put in people 'to control the country's mineral resources' there wasn't the outcry I'd expected. I don't know who'd benefit most but I doubt those at the top would be left impoverished.

I think the uncertainty comes from it being Trump. Venezuela should be a Utopia given it's oil reserves but instead it's a basket case after decades of misrule. The oil industry infrastructure needs massive investment (we're talking billions) and that was only ever going to come from foreign investment. Would we rather it was Russia or China? The whole regime change thing is distasteful but ultimately could be good for Venezuela in the long run. If Obama or Biden had done this would there be such an outcry? I say this as one of Trump's biggest critics btw.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Whilst the current country Ukraine has changed hands many times of the last few hunders years it has been it's own independent country since the disolving of the USSR. History is irrelevant as at the end of the day no foreign country has the right to take any part of yours.

I don't want to play 'tit for tat' but I'd guess Ukraine has done that on numerous occasions.

 

[Ozzymac]

I don't want to play 'tit for tat' but I'd guess Ukraine has done that on numerous occasions.

Not since they became an independent nation in 1991 as far as i'm aware.

As i said, i get what you're saying and agree that all things should be considered to prevent destruction of both property but more importantly human life. Russia claims that it's what the 2 donbass's wanted however thats not what the election results indicate. If it was as claimed that ethnic Russians were being persecuted then surely it woukd have been simpler for Russia to accept those ethnic Russians as refugees? Instead they kidnap 20k Ukrainian children

 

[Smug in Boots]

I think the uncertainty comes from it being Trump. Venezuela should be a Utopia given it's oil reserves but instead it's a basket case after decades of misrule. The oil industry infrastructure needs massive investment (we're talking billions) and that was only ever going to come from foreign investment. Would we rather it was Russia or China? The whole regime change thing is distasteful but ultimately could be good for Venezuela in the long run. If Obama or Biden had done this would there be such an outcry? I say this as one of Trump's biggest critics btw.

I always go back to Homer and his lobster at times like this.

If you know the scenario it's a man acting through greed who constantly corrects his mistakes and tries to redress some kind of balance. But, because he's basically an idiot, he never gets things right then ends up stuffing his fat face which was all he wanted in the first place, despite his claims to want what was best for everyone.

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[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

I think the uncertainty comes from it being Trump. Venezuela should be a Utopia given it's oil reserves but instead it's a basket case after decades of misrule. The oil industry infrastructure needs massive investment (we're talking billions) and that was only ever going to come from foreign investment. Would we rather it was Russia or China? The whole regime change thing is distasteful but ultimately could be good for Venezuela in the long run. If Obama or Biden had done this would there be such an outcry? I say this as one of Trump's biggest critics btw.

I’m not getting the outcry here. Surely getting rid of Maduro is a good thing for the people of Venezuela.
Here’s a view from a Venezuelan who has lived under the Chavez and Maduro regime and currently the Trump regime. It’s fairly clear which one he prefers.

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[WillD]

I liked the analogy of a next door neighbour getting social services involved because of child abuse, but instead of taking the kids away they took the parents.

Over simplified I know

 

[MadMackem77]

Personal opinion is the Venezuelan incident doesn’t do much to get close to WW3

The Venezuelans are generally happy the leader is gone, China and Russia aren’t interested, it’ll be as you were in a couple days when the media forgets

 

[Washysafc]

I did think that as I posted but there's something that's irked me from the start of this conflict.

I said, from the outset, that he would've been better off finding a quick and peaceful solution even at the expense of territory. I felt, all along, that less would've been given up and countless lives saved not to mention the immense cost and destruction.

I know that may looked defeatist but any peace deal will be a defeat however it's painted.

Any settlement on that basis would have just paused the war until the terms of the agreement had weakened Ukraine to the point Russia could just walk in.

He has no option other than fight to save Ukraine.

 

[Sunders53]

Any settlement on that basis would have just paused the war until the terms of the agreement had weakened Ukraine to the point Russia could just walk in.

He has no option other than fight to save Ukraine.

If there are any lessons from history they are that if you try and appease a war hungry tyrant... it only encourages them.... you have to fight. If we are not 'with-boots-on-the-ground' then at least we must supply Ukraine with arms/money. They are after all fighting on our behalf. Trump's fear/stupidity/kompromat of Putin, or couldn't care less attitude about NATO and Europe has left us weak.

Now Trump taking over Venezuela for it's oil, may mean the USA getting into armed conflict with South American countries
I would suggest we steer well clear of this.

 

[123Daveyboy]

If there are any lessons from history they are that if you try and appease a war hungry tyrant... it only encourages them.... you have to fight. If we are not 'with-boots-on-the-ground' then at least we must supply Ukraine with arms/money. They are after all fighting on our behalf. Trump's fear/stupidity/kompromat of Putin, or couldn't care less attitude about NATO and Europe has left us weak.

Now Trump taking over Venezuela for it's oil, may mean the USA getting into armed conflict with South American countries
I would suggest we steer well clear of this.

Trump may not be as bad as Putin, but imo just as dangerous.

 

[Montysoptician]

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[Hannah1989]

Just our luck, we’re doing well, could get European football and WW3 is about to start

 

[LBW]

During our Sunday afternoon session me and the lads were discussing Trump, Putin, Starmer, Xi, we all despise Starmer but we all agreed he is probably the most level headed amongst that list of tyrants, is that because we are not a threat to anyone and is he nervous ?
Trumps actions and comments regarding NATO must send a shiver down his spine, it does mine because without the might of the USA we are sitting ducks.
Conscription is inevitable if the world stays on its current path, Kier & Khan keep up with their Diversity is our strength quotes, will Diversity be a strength when the UK needs it in acts of war ? Will they stay and fight for the country that welcomed them or will they return to the countries they couldnt wait to leave ? We have many fighting age men who have deserted their home country because of war, have we inherited cowards that will flee again if war does land on our shores ? I have kids who would be conscripted and the thought terrifies me, they wouldnt have a choice though, whilst we all hope it doesnt come to war I think we would have a huge issue conscripting fighting aged men and women from certain communities.

 

[Washysafc]

During our Sunday afternoon session me and the lads were discussing Trump, Putin, Starmer, Xi, we all despise Starmer but we all agreed he is probably the most level headed amongst that list of tyrants, is that because we are not a threat to anyone and is he nervous ?
Trumps actions and comments regarding NATO must send a shiver down his spine, it does mine because without the might of the USA we are sitting ducks.
Conscription is inevitable if the world stays on its current path, Kier & Khan keep up with their Diversity is our strength quotes, will Diversity be a strength when the UK needs it in acts of war ? Will they stay and fight for the country that welcomed them or will they return to the countries they couldnt wait to leave ? We have many fighting age men who have deserted their home country because of war, have we inherited cowards that will flee again if war does land on our shores ? I have kids who would be conscripted and the thought terrifies me, they wouldnt have a choice though, whilst we all hope it doesnt come to war I think we would have a huge issue conscripting fighting aged men and women from certain communities.

Let’s remember that millions of those communities voluntarily join d up to fight in both World Wars. So I don’t think it will be the problem you fear.

The biggest problem is the USA going all out to break up NATO, to help Russia.