Would going out of the CL in the group stage be such a bad thing?

[AndyI]

The thing about the Europa League though, is that the win is hollow because the best teams are not in it, you know you won a trophy where you did not have to play the very best, and that this is the tournament where the B players go. You only go into this tournament on the literal fact that you weren't good enough in the UCL so they dumped your ass here.

It's like the American presidential republican debates, the candidates that aren't so popular don't go on the main debate, they have another pre-debate, not really glamorous is it?

What a load of Ignorant and arrogant bollox.

Are you really suggesting that every win in the UEFA and Cup Winners (or even the Inter-city fairs cup) should be derired because they weren't the European cup.

FFS, that is such a modern plastic footy fan attitude. I remember Arsenals win in the CWC against a very good Parma side. Obviously it means **** all as the good teams (Milan and Barca) were busy in the EC final. I also remember defeats in UEFA and CWC finals. Do they not hurt as it's not the EC or CL

Arsenal have only won 2 european trophies in their history. That is well down the list of winning clubs. The Europa might be 2nd rate in your opinion but it is still a tough competition and should be celebrated as a major trophy (far bigger than the FA cup imo) if won.

 

[Arsenal87]

What a load of Ignorant and arrogant bollox.

Are you really suggesting that every win in the UEFA and Cup Winners (or even the Inter-city fairs cup) should be derired because they weren't the European cup.

FFS, that is such a modern plastic footy fan attitude. I remember Arsenals win in the CWC against a very good Parma side. Obviously it means **** all as the good teams (Milan and Barca) were busy in the EC final. I also remember defeats in UEFA and CWC finals. Do they not hurt as it's not the EC or CL

Arsenal have only won 2 european trophies in their history. That is well down the list of winning clubs. The Europa might be 2nd rate in your opinion but it is still a tough competition and should be celebrated as a major trophy (far bigger than the FA cup imo) if won.

Back then we had nowhere near the resources we do now, so was ok then, not now.

 

[lazarus20000]

People are going off topic a little. I think the main argument is what's the point of being in a tournament if you have little chance of winning. Most fans think that we have little chance in the CL, but Europa would be a more realistic chance.

For me the CL is getting rather boring for us as we seem to be going through the same drudgery every year. The FA cup was a welcome break and the league looks more like a realistic prospect now.

Ultimately I'd love for us to win the CL but at the moment that won't be possible and probably won't be with Wenger in charge. But the league is certainly gettable at the moment.

 

[Sanj]

People are going off topic a little. I think the main argument is what's the point of being in a tournament if you have little chance of winning. Most fans think that we have little chance in the CL, but Europa would be a more realistic chance.

For me the CL is getting rather boring for us as we seem to be going through the same drudgery every year. The FA cup was a welcome break and the league looks more like a realistic prospect now.

Ultimately I'd love for us to win the CL but at the moment that won't be possible and probably won't be with Wenger in charge. But the league is certainly gettable at the moment.

Also CL in the recent few years has only been won by the three truly elite teams in Europe. Barca x2, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, and once again these three are the front runners this season. To beat any of those three you need to have a serious squad with a serious manager, we have neither.

 

[lazarus20000]

Also CL in the recent few years has only been won by the three truly elite teams in Europe. Barca x2, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, and once again these three are the front runners this season. To beat any of those three you need to have a serious squad with a serious manager, we have neither.

This is where i find the CL a money spinning joke. I agree with Cym in that the Champions League should be reserved for the Champions and maybe to the runners up, to make up the numbers and make it a bit more interesting. But they've made this qualification round for all the crap Euro teams who get 4th in the league (if stretching it to 3rd place is bad enough) and then we go through the drudgery of the league groupings. It's bloody boring and only really gets going when in the finals, when it's time for all the crap teams to get knocked out and we're left with the usual suspects.

Taking my Arsenal hat off, i would say that we don't belong in the CL right now, but then I would say the same about half of the teams in this joke tournament. But the money is too great, so the chances of them removing the crap teams is unlikely. As it stands, the EPL should only have max 2 teams, the standard is that poor at the moment.

 

[Bobby Pires]

People are going off topic a little. I think the main argument is what's the point of being in a tournament if you have little chance of winning. Most fans think that we have little chance in the CL, but Europa would be a more realistic chance.

For me the CL is getting rather boring for us as we seem to be going through the same drudgery every year. The FA cup was a welcome break and the league looks more like a realistic prospect now.

Ultimately I'd love for us to win the CL but at the moment that won't be possible and probably won't be with Wenger in charge. But the league is certainly gettable at the moment.

Replace CL in your sentence with Premier League and we now know how all of the teams outside 'the big 6' feel in the Prem.

 

[lazarus20000]

Replace CL in your sentence with Premier League and we now know how all of the teams outside 'the big 6' feel in the Prem.

Very true, but then again, the Premier league isn't called the "Champions League", which has teams as low as 3rd and 4th competing in.

 

[afcftw]

Very true, but then again, the Premier league isn't called the "Champions League", which has teams as low as 3rd and 4th competing in.

So instead rename it the European cup and you'll be happy?

Not sure what I'd do to spice up European competition, make the CL just league winners, have a cup winners cup and then the europa for the teams who aren't league or cup winners. Maybe. Haven't thought about it much lol

 

[lazarus20000]

So instead rename it the European cup and you'll be happy?

Not sure what I'd do to spice up European competition, make the CL just league winners, have a cup winners cup and then the europa for the teams who aren't league or cup winners. Maybe. Haven't thought about it much lol

Keep the Champions League for just the league winners and possibly the runners up, to make it more interesting. And the next 3 league positions (3-5) in the top leagues, should enter Europa. But I would clean up the Europa league and get rid of the crap teams like Spurs.

 

[cini65]

Keep the champions league as is and rename it the 'European League' or something. It draws the crowds, brings in loads of money and gets exciting in the latter stages for the big teams, and exciting all the way through for small teams. No way UEFA will do away with it.

But also then have an actual brand new tiny event called the European Champions Trophy which is simply a small straight knock-out competition of the winners of the top ranked eight ranked (by UEFA co-efficient) leagues in Europe which takes place over one week at the end of the season (sort of like the ATP Champions tennis trophy thing at the millennium dome with the top 8 players). It would only take three rounds (4 x quarters, 2 x semis, 1 x final all single leg at neutral venues) over three nights spread over a week (Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday) at the start of June.

League winner of co-efficient 8 vs league winner of co-efficient 1
League winner of co-efficient 7 vs league winner of co-efficient 2
League winner of co-efficient 6 vs league winner of co-efficient 3
League winner of co-efficient 5 vs league winner of co-efficient 4
etc.

Would be the elite of the elite... taking a whole season to qualify for and immediate to the end of the season too so not skewed by losing all your best players over the Summer transfer window.

 

[lazarus20000]

Keep the champions league as is and rename it the 'European League' or something. It draws the crowds, brings in loads of money and gets exciting in the latter stages for the big teams, and exciting all the way through for small teams. No way UEFA will do away with it.

But also then have an actual brand new tiny event called the European Champions Trophy which is simply a small straight knock-out competition of the winners of the top ranked eight ranked (by UEFA co-efficient) leagues in Europe which takes place over one week at the end of the season (sort of like the ATP Champions tennis trophy thing at the millennium dome with the top 8 players). It would only take three rounds (4 x quarters, 2 x semis, 1 x final all single leg at neutral venues) over three nights spread over a week (Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday) at the start of June.

League winner of co-efficient 8 vs league winner of co-efficient 1
League winner of co-efficient 7 vs league winner of co-efficient 2
League winner of co-efficient 6 vs league winner of co-efficient 3
League winner of co-efficient 5 vs league winner of co-efficient 4
etc.

Would be the elite of the elite... taking a whole season to qualify for and immediate to the end of the season too so not skewed by losing all your best players over the Summer transfer window.

Great idea, unfortunately the dinosaurs in UEFA and FIFA would be averse to such things. Would make total sense and remove the tedium of anything that comes before the finals of the Champions League.

 

[cini65]

Out of interest A87, if Wenger goes at the end of the season how long does the new man get to make you the best of the best?

You're going to accuse Arsenal fans of potentially jumping on the back of a manager too quickly???? The same Arsenal fans who've patiently put up with a decade of nothingness under Wenger??

 

[lazarus20000]

You're going to accuse Arsenal fans of potentially jumping on the back of a manager too quickly???? The same Arsenal fans who've patiently put up with a decade of nothingness under Wenger??

Coming from a manure fan that hounded Moyes out of a job after a few months!

 

[Arsenal87]

Out of interest A87, if Wenger goes at the end of the season how long does the new man get to make you the best of the best?
Remember you will still be up against Chelsea and City (maybe us) in the league and Barca, Real and Bayern in Europe. Just how entitled do you feel to these trophy's?

I give him 3 seasons. I'm very confident if we get an Anchelotti or a Guardiola, we will be winning some of the big trophies within that time. And yes, I damn sure as hell feel entitled to win these big leagues with the amount of money I spend for my season ticket (the most expensive in the country), on top of the huge amount of resources we have. The club themselves said we will move to the Emirates to compete and win the big trophies, so why the **** shouldn't i feel entitled?

 

[Arsenal87]

Does the FA Cup mean anything?

If you enter the CL as 3rd or 4th in the league what does that make you "best" of, certainly not the league you are in.
A trophy is a trophy, nobody is entitled to win one you have to compete for that.

Yes, the FA Cup does mean something, because ALL TEAMS ARE INVOLVED, it's not a competition where the best are not involved, so you can happily say you were the best in the domestic cup competition.

I don't know why this is so hard to get? It's not bloody rocket science, the Europa League does not contain all teams, specifically the best teams, so you're winning a 'trophy' that didn't involve everybody, so again what does the trophy mean, what can you say you are the best of when the actual best are not even in the tournament? You can only say you are the best among the B-teams and teams who were not good enough for the UCL, how the **** is that something to be over the moon about?

 

[Arsenal87]

And here are the latest comments from Gazidis, speaking on having 193 million in cash reserves:

"Everyone at the club is determined to build on the FA Cup successes of the past two seasons.

"We continue to look to develop every aspect of our operations while remaining true to our principles around being self-funding, investing in youth, our style of play and our commitment to our fans and to our place in the community.

"We are focused on delivering more success."

So why should I not feel entitled when the club keep saying we are going to be delivering more success? When we have so much money available? When I pay the highest season ticket in the country? You damn straight I expect to see major success.

 

[TheBear]

Just a realist. Here's a stat for you, no team who has ever lost their opening group game in the CL has gone on to win the competition. CL is beyond us, for some reason this season in particular, I do not feel the same about the PL, so yes I do have a losers attitude for thinking we might actually have a chance to win the league.

You are ridiculous and this is a ridiculous thread. I'm not even sure how to classify you, certainly 'Arsenal fan' doesn't work.

If we get passed the group stage there is a chance we can win it. This is a Cup competition and a certain amount of luck is required.

Sure Bayern, Barca,Juve and Real have better sides than us.. But on our day we can still beat any of them.

 

[cini65]

You are ridiculous and this is a ridiculous thread. I'm not even sure how to classify you, certainly 'Arsenal fan' doesn't work.

If we get passed the group stage there is a chance we can win it. This is a Cup competition and a certain amount of luck is required.

Sure Bayern, Barca,Juve and Real have better sides than us.. But on our day we can still beat any of them.

I can guarantee right now that Arsenal won't win the Champions League this year. 100%. Guaranteed. There is not even a slight chance. No hope. You say on our day we can beat any of them. A lot of teams could say that. Shakthar Donetsk could say that. And they also have 0% chance of winning the CL this year. State the last time we knocked any of those teams out of a competition.

 

[lazarus20000]

You are ridiculous and this is a ridiculous thread. I'm not even sure how to classify you, certainly 'Arsenal fan' doesn't work.

If we get passed the group stage there is a chance we can win it. This is a Cup competition and a certain amount of luck is required.

Sure Bayern, Barca,Juve and Real have better sides than us.. But on our day we can still beat any of them.

No we can't. Maybe we could have said this 5 years ago, but strangely, we've regressed in the CL to the point where we are getting beaten by teams that we would usually beat. On the flip side, we've become more consistent in the league and we have a better chance there. We need a WC striker to stand a chance in the CL.

 

[TheBear]

I can guarantee right now that Arsenal won't win the Champions League this year. 100%. Guaranteed. There is not even a slight chance. No hope. You say on our day we can beat any of them. A lot of teams could say that. Shakthar Donetsk could say that. And they also have 0% chance of winning the CL this year. State the last time we knocked any of those teams out of a competition.

No you can't. Do you even understand basic statistical analysis? The Universe may be infinite.. Arsenals chances of Winning the Champions League are not.

The odds are currently at 28/1. - we were priced at 15/1 before our last two losses.
I should probably add Liverpool were priced at 33/1 the year they won the Champions League. By Half time against AC Milan in the final those odds had dropped to 100/1 - Yet they still won it.

Weaker teams than ours have won this competition.