Would going out of the CL in the group stage be such a bad thing?

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Sanj said:
Jeez, the stupidity is staggering. Where did I say I did not want us to win every game? My point is I can't for the life of me see how we have any real or even an outside chance of winning the CL, so it's just a waste of time and games.
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The thing about the Europa League though, is that the win is hollow because the best teams are not in it, you know you won a trophy where you did not have to play the very best, and that this is the tournament where the B players go. You only go into this tournament on the literal fact that you weren't good enough in the UCL so they dumped your ass here.

It's like the American presidential republican debates, the candidates that aren't so popular don't go on the main debate, they have another pre-debate, not really glamorous is it?
 
Arsenal87 said:
The thing about the Europa League though, is that the win is hollow because the best teams are not in it, you know you won a trophy where you did not have to play the very best, and that this is the tournament where the B players go. You only go into this tournament on the literal fact that you weren't good enough in the UCL so they dumped your ass here.

It's like the American presidential republican debates, the candidates that aren't so popular don't go on the main debate, they have another pre-debate, not really glamorous is it?
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Nobody is saying it's glamorous and nobody is saying it's the 'best thing on earth' those are your words.

What I'm asking is, would you refuse to celebrate if we won it ?
 
I'd rather win a competition where all the best teams are involved, makes it much much more meaningful, but winning a tournament where not everyone is involved, not because they didn't qualify, but because they're too good for the tournament and play in another A-tournament, don't see how you can be so prideful from that.

Yeah it's counted as a trophy, but, it's also a fact that you won a trophy that was missing the very best, so I don't really get what the trophy signifies?
 
PISKIE said:
Nobody is saying it's glamorous and nobody is saying it's the 'best thing on earth' those are your words.

What I'm asking is, would you refuse to celebrate if we won it ?
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I wouldnt really be that happy about it, it's a hollow trophy that doesn't mean much. It's a nothing trophy in my book, because the best teams are not involved in it, so again, what does it signify? winning a trophy means you were the best out of ALL TEAMS, not just B-teams, so what, we are the champs of B-teams?

The Europa League is the losers trophy, simple as that, it's where the teams who aren't good enough for Europe proper go, and compete, i.e. Spurs.
 
Arsenal87 said:
The thing about the Europa League though, is that the win is hollow because the best teams are not in it, you know you won a trophy where you did not have to play the very best, and that this is the tournament where the B players go. You only go into this tournament on the literal fact that you weren't good enough in the UCL so they dumped your ass here.

It's like the American presidential republican debates, the candidates that aren't so popular don't go on the main debate, they have another pre-debate, not really glamorous is it?
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I would rather we finish fourth, if we can't get second, so we have less games and can focus on the league but third is not the end of the world. As a club, we can't dismiss any European trophy, Spurs have won more, ffs.
 
Arsenal87 said:
I'd rather win a competition where all the best teams are involved, makes it much much more meaningful, but winning a tournament where not everyone is involved, not because they didn't qualify, but because they're too good for the tournament and play in another A-tournament, don't see how you can be so prideful from that.

Yeah it's counted as a trophy, but, it's also a fact that you won a trophy that was missing the very best, so I don't really get what the trophy signifies?
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So would I. But as Sanj has pointed out if we did get knocked out of the CL in the group stages, then it's a comp we could win. It wouldn't be the most coverted of trophies, but it would still be a European trophy and I would take it.
 
Sanj said:
I would rather we finish fourth, if we can't get second, so we have less games and can focus on the league but third is not the end of the world. As a club, we can't dismiss any European trophy, Spurs have won more, ffs.
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But again, what does this trophy signify? You're the best team out of the B-teams? It's like hey yeah, look, we will make a trophy for you teams in Europe not good enough for the real big one. I don't get what you can say you are the best of when you win the Europa League, It doesn't even make you better say than a team who makes the last 8 of the UCL, and gets dumped out, because they were too good to be in the Europa League, which we got dumped into because we were not good enough to make it out of the group stage.
 
Anyways the fact that it's even being debated as to whether we should or should not go for the Europa League, has shown how miserable things are getting under Wenger, and we are getting nowhere near the top.

My solution? Let him just **** off at the end of the season, that for me will be the greatest trophy.

Let's grab Anchelotti, there's a coach who really knows how to win in Europe.
 
Arsenal87 said:
But again, what does this trophy signify? You're the best team out of the B-teams? It's like hey yeah, look, we will make a trophy for you teams in Europe not good enough for the real big one. I don't get what you can say you are the best of when you win the Europa League, It doesn't even make you better say than a team who makes the last 8 of the UCL, and gets dumped out, because they were too good to be in the Europa League, which we got dumped into because we were not good enough to make it out of the group stage.
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The **** you going on about? Only thing winning the Europa does is add an extra trophy to collection, I keep repeating this point, but as a club we can't just sniff at any European trophy, we have not even won one under Wenger. Also, winning the Europa does help the old coefficient.
 
BrunelGooner said:
Would we even be the best team in the Europa League?
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That's the other thing, don't know why people assume we have a great chance in Europe, I'm pretty certain we will get our asses handed to us by the 3rd-4th best teams in Spain and Germany. We've had our asses handed to us by far inferior teams like Zagreb, Monaco etc.
 
People can think whatever they like about Wenger, but one thing which is indefensible is his European record.

There is absolutely no valid excuse whatsoever for a manager of his pedigree and stature to have such a horrendous record in Europe.
 
Sanj said:
The **** you going on about? Only thing winning the Europa does is add an extra trophy to collection, I keep repeating this point, but as a club we can't just sniff at any European trophy, we have not even won one under Wenger. Also, winning the Europa does help the old coefficient.
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I am on about this trophy having no meaning, you can't call yourself the best because the best are in another tournament, so what kind of dumb excuse for a trophy is this? You are the best out of what when you win the Europa League? The teams who couldn't make it into the UCL, YAY, what a brilliant trophy to have.
 
I know I'm old and stuck in my ways but to me the CL should be for teams who are champions of their respective countries.The Europa League should be for the teams who are not champions just as the UEFA cup was.I've heard today that UEFA are thinking of starting another competition for teams below the Europa League qualification places.In my opinion if UEFA want to start another competition why don't that just bring back the ECWC.
 
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BrunelGooner said:
People can think whatever they like about Wenger, but one thing which is indefensible is his European record.

There is absolutely no valid excuse whatsoever for a manager of his pedigree and stature to have such a horrendous record in Europe.
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We really should have won it in 2004, then again, Mo was the coach of Porto, and seeing how hopeless Wenger is against Mo, his bad record would have probably started there.
 
Arsenal87 said:
I am on about this trophy having no meaning, you can't call yourself the best because the best are in another tournament, so what kind of dumb excuse for a trophy is this? You are the best out of what when you win the Europa League? The teams who couldn't make it into the UCL, YAY, what a brilliant trophy to have.
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What meaning does the FA Cup have? Europa is stil a European trophy. The cup winners cup was a European trophy, you go tell all the fans that were out there against Parma the night we won that trophy that it was a meaningless cup. A trophy is a trophy, especially a European one.
 
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Sanj said:
What meaning does the FA Cup have? Europa is stil a European trophy. The cup winners cup was a European trophy, you go tell all the fans that were out there against Parma the night we won that trophy that it was a meaningless cup. A trophy is a trophy, especially as a European one.
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I was in Brussels in 1980 when we lost on penalties to Valencia <cry>
 
Arsenal87 said:
I am on about this trophy having no meaning, you can't call yourself the best because the best are in another tournament, so what kind of dumb excuse for a trophy is this? You are the best out of what when you win the Europa League? The teams who couldn't make it into the UCL, YAY, what a brilliant trophy to have.
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Does the FA Cup mean anything?

If you enter the CL as 3rd or 4th in the league what does that make you "best" of, certainly not the league you are in.
A trophy is a trophy, nobody is entitled to win one you have to compete for that.
 
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Sanj said:
What meaning does the FA Cup have? Europa is stil a European trophy. The cup winners cup was a European trophy, you go tell all the fans that were out there against Parma the night we won that trophy that it was a meaningless cup. A trophy is a trophy, especially a European one.
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Ooops, that will teach me not to post before I have read the whole thread :emoticon-0100-smile
 
Out of interest A87, if Wenger goes at the end of the season how long does the new man get to make you the best of the best?
Remember you will still be up against Chelsea and City (maybe us) in the league and Barca, Real and Bayern in Europe. Just how entitled do you feel to these trophy's?
 
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