Why are you angry about Red Bull team orders?
- Thread starter Delete Me
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Except that drivers are awarded points individually that are tallied up over the season, so it isn't like football or cricket. Yes, those points count towards a team championship but they also count towards a drivers championship where drivers are in direct competition with each other.
F1 may be a team sport but it is definitely not only a team sport.
I mean in the sense whenever Seb has been given a team order he follows it, while Webber ignores it and gets away with it = unfair playing field.
True, but just hear me out.
If you had two strikers in the same team scoring multiple goals=WDC points through an entire season. 1 player has been up the top the whole season while the other struggles from time to time. The number 1 striker needs to score 1 more goal with a penalty, to be classified as the best player of the year and the world. But the number 2 striker wants to take the glory since he wants to proove a point that he's back, maybe even messing it up.
Would you as that manager allow the number 2 striker to take that penalty? Or would want your best striker to take the penalty, increasing his value for being bought by 50% if he puts it in the net.
The team got the maximum result if striker 1 took the chance, not striker 2.
I've extended on it, by linking it up with the sources. And this way everybody gets to see it.
But that wasn't what was happening at Silverstone, Vettel was miles out front in the WDC standings and a measly 3 points wasn't going to affect that. Vettel didn't need the equivalent of '1 more goal' to seal the title.
Further more, if someone is to be deemed 'the best' at something over a season then I expect them to live up to the title and earn it otherwise they're not the best are they?
But Seb was the best driver that race in the RBR team, not because he was just 2nd, but that he still fought Webber to the end and having lost time behind Lewis and the pit stop problem costing him 8-10 seconds.
That's not the way I see it Silver, so I'll have to disagree with you this time. Your comment about Webber being "a disgrace to the RBR team", seems a bit bizarre to say the least; in fact it sounds quite bitter for some reason I fail to see.
I didn't say that Vettel wasn't the best RBR driver at Silverstone, he held off Webber very well much like he did Hamilton in Spain. A skill that he seems to be improving very well this year. The point is that Horner's intentions were that Vettel wasn't allowed to be challenged and that's not the way to earn a WDC. At least not in my book anyway.
based on what exactly? Mark Webbers press releases? Don't be misled by Webbers constant propaganda war, or comments by Whitmarsh, who is looking to sow unrest amongst his rivals, first thing Webber does is find a camera to whine into at every chance, wing-gate, when he didn't like the new wing and wasn't fussed until there was only one and he wanted it so Seb woudn't have it, is a prime example of webbers 'poor me' propaganda BS.
And as to it being 'only 3 points', the last 4 WDC's have been won by a smaller gap.
What about 2009? Jenson won by 11 points which would be like 27 points now. Also, the last 4 WDC's didn't see a driver leading by the equivalent of nearly 4 race wins by half way through the season. They also didn't see the leading driver finish in the top 2 for every race so far.
nice find Tom-cat, as I've always said Mark Webber is a hypocritical twat, fine to be number 1 and criticise your obviously slower WDC for complaining about preferential treatment when at Williams, but when the boot is on the other foot, find camera and whine mode, he should take the advice he gave to Pizzonia and 'man up' about it.
Why call him that and why post it? I understand that you think he is hypocritical and it's a valid point to bring up, but just adding an insult at the end is pretty childish.
R
Robin van Bergkamp
Guest
F1 is a team sport so I can understand a team having orders in place so as to prevent their drivers taking each other out. I think that while the latter is always a possibility when two drivers are going hell for leather I do not believe that an accident need necessarily be the outcome of a dogfight between two drivers. They simply have to respect each other and know where the limits are. Last year Sebastian was really a lot younger and less mature than he is today. His driving this season proves it. He has great mechanical sympathy and if presented with a fait accompli ( spl ) by Mark Webber, he would yield.
Thus I believe yesterday's team orders were not entirely necessary. It really sparks of Red Bull's preference towards Sebastian. They really should perhaps have a clear cut No 1 and No 2 in their team, in which case, Mark might have arranged to seek his fortune elsewhere. But where would be go anyway since this is the team with the best car. Horner did say that they gave Mark the ' undercut ' which would have favoured him. Circumstances dictated that it wouldn't. Horner in his defence tried to allude that Sebastian was hampered by a KERs issue so it was alright to require Mark to maintain the gap. For Horner to further claim that three points to Mark would not be a significant gain is just an attempt to pull wool over our eyes. Here is a man who claimed the higher ground when Ferrari asked Felipe Massa to let Fernando Alonso through. The very same man who took the new wing off Webber's car to slot it onto Vettel's, citing the act as being in the interests of the team. At that juncture last year, there was little to choose between either driver. This year, Sebastian has clear daylight ahead of Mark, let alone the entire field. Last year it made no sense to give Sebastian the new wing after it had been placed on Mark's car. This year similarly it makes no sense to deny Mark the opportunity of gaining three points when Sebastian is already three wins ahead of his teammate.
Bias at Red Bull? In the words of Mario Andretti when drawn on another matter " You better believe it. "
Now don't get me started on Eddie Jordan
Thus I believe yesterday's team orders were not entirely necessary. It really sparks of Red Bull's preference towards Sebastian. They really should perhaps have a clear cut No 1 and No 2 in their team, in which case, Mark might have arranged to seek his fortune elsewhere. But where would be go anyway since this is the team with the best car. Horner did say that they gave Mark the ' undercut ' which would have favoured him. Circumstances dictated that it wouldn't. Horner in his defence tried to allude that Sebastian was hampered by a KERs issue so it was alright to require Mark to maintain the gap. For Horner to further claim that three points to Mark would not be a significant gain is just an attempt to pull wool over our eyes. Here is a man who claimed the higher ground when Ferrari asked Felipe Massa to let Fernando Alonso through. The very same man who took the new wing off Webber's car to slot it onto Vettel's, citing the act as being in the interests of the team. At that juncture last year, there was little to choose between either driver. This year, Sebastian has clear daylight ahead of Mark, let alone the entire field. Last year it made no sense to give Sebastian the new wing after it had been placed on Mark's car. This year similarly it makes no sense to deny Mark the opportunity of gaining three points when Sebastian is already three wins ahead of his teammate.
Bias at Red Bull? In the words of Mario Andretti when drawn on another matter " You better believe it. "
Now don't get me started on Eddie Jordan
I'm not annoyed but it, more amused.
I think back to last year at Germany when Ferrari used team orders, and Red Bull and Horner where the first and the loudest to come out and publicly mock them at every turn. Also coming out with such things as we'll never use team orders, they are wrong and they rob the fans of racing, etc.
Now tbh I think it was the right thing to do, and they would be silly if they didn't do it and I hope that they will learn it's best to say nothing, or very little when something like this happens in teh future.
I think back to last year at Germany when Ferrari used team orders, and Red Bull and Horner where the first and the loudest to come out and publicly mock them at every turn. Also coming out with such things as we'll never use team orders, they are wrong and they rob the fans of racing, etc.
Now tbh I think it was the right thing to do, and they would be silly if they didn't do it and I hope that they will learn it's best to say nothing, or very little when something like this happens in teh future.
Very good appraisal Bergkamp.
P.S. Did not see you at Goodwood due to unforeseen change of plan. Hope you enjoyed it though!
P.S. Did not see you at Goodwood due to unforeseen change of plan. Hope you enjoyed it though!