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Nuggets said:
My point was that the undercutting of wages by companies using immigrants, often in labour and manufacturing industries, has contributed to a negative perspective on immigration that was one of the factors in why the electorate voted to leave the EU.

The concern about undercutting wages is understandable and valid, but the mistake is that most voters appeared to blame the immigrants for doing this rather than blame the relevant business bosses for choosing to ignore minimum wage legislation.
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If it's the unskilled labouring black market I don't have any sympathy with that. These people are not contributing properly to NI and tax and are more of a burden on the economy than honest, law abiding immigrants. Most of my family are in the trades and have made a decent living by becoming qualified, carrying out work to a high standard and working hard and none of them have been in the slightest bit affected by immigration.

If it's lawful unskilled labour in manufacturing or the trades then the approach the government has taken to this, by setting a minimum salary and savings requirement for immigration, is absolutely disgusting and something we should be ashamed of as a country. You will be able to come into Britain but only if you can buy your way in? The many stories of families being split up as a result of the hostile environment are a stain on Britain.
 
This is all extremely fascinating....but in the very unlikely event that Corbyn and his cronies get to form the next Government will the last person to leave Britain please turn the lights off!
 
stretchyboy said:
So, after last nights fiasco, have I got this right,,,
MP 's previously voted against May's offer, but last night said they would accept it if she resigns?
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Hours before the indicative votes last night, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg came out and said they'd support May's Brexit deal if it meant her stepping down in the near future. Shameless, naked ambition from them, no care or regret for enabling a Brexit deal that they've spent the last couple of months fiercely criticizing and rightly calling a Brexit-lite solution.

It's caused a lot of upset and anger over on the Daily Mail comments section. To be brutally honest, I find it amusing. Fool on the Mail readers for not seeing Boris and Rees-Mogg for the self-serving charlatans that they have continuously demonstrated. During the referendum, their man Boris was torn between a Remain column and a Leave column to pen in the Telegraph. He opted for Leave when he realised he could better position himself as a Prime Minister candidate. The end game has been his only ambition.

The even funnier thing is that May's Brexit deal is still not guaranteed to pass, even with Boris and Rees-Mogg's support. The DUP still not supporting it. A lot of Tory Brexiteers still against the deal. Theresa May is a leader in name only.
 
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Personally I think there should be a second referendum, the first one was based on lies and deceit! Now there is a bit more known about it all, like the fact the NHS won't be getting the millions Farage promised etc...lets put it back out there, simples!

Stay
Go with no deal
May's deal

Simple as that
 
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Spanish said:
Personally I think there should be a second referendum, the first one was based on lies and deceit! Now there is a bit more known about it all, like the fact the NHS won't be getting the millions Farage promised etc...lets put it back out there, simples!

Stay
Go with no deal
May's deal

Simple as that
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The problem with your three options,Spanish,is that Brexiteers will argue their votes are likely to be split between No deal and May’s deal letting remain in through the back door.

Whilst a Remainer at heart,I see the only “fair” choice in a Referendum at this stage to be between No deal and May’s.I.e We voted for Brexit now the choice is between a hard Brexit and Brexit lite.
 
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Spanish said:
Personally I think there should be a second referendum, the first one was based on lies and deceit! Now there is a bit more known about it all, like the fact the NHS won't be getting the millions Farage promised etc...lets put it back out there, simples!

Stay
Go with no deal
May's deal

Simple as that
Click to expand...


we might as well go back & rerun every election ever then :emoticon-0136-giggl:emoticon-0136-giggl:emoticon-0136-giggl
 
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Yep I guess that's right Redruth...can't trust anything that politicians say!
Bunch of ****ers the lot of them, I fear its gonna be a very Rocky road and not as simple as many of the 'blind' Brexiteers think but heyho...the sun is shining and there is plenty of alcohol available!
 
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Redruth said:
we might as well go back & rerun every election ever then :emoticon-0136-giggl:emoticon-0136-giggl:emoticon-0136-giggl
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The difference between this Referendum and any other election is that Elections are won based on Manifestos and if they don't deliver them they will be voted out again at the next election (5 years later)

This referendum clearly had no (coherent) Manifesto and it appears to be a final decision with little chance of holding it accountable for many many years
 
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Spanish said:
Yep I guess that's right Redruth...can't trust anything that politicians say!
Bunch of ****ers the lot of them, I fear its gonna be a very Rocky road and not as simple as many of the 'blind' Brexiteers think but heyho...the sun is shining and there is plenty of alcohol available!
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It is dreadful over here.Piss up & brewery come to mind !
 
Scowey said:
The difference between this Referendum and any other election is that Elections are won based on Manifestos and if they don't deliver them they will be voted out again at the next election (5 years later)

This referendum clearly had no (coherent) Manifesto and it appears to be a final decision with little chance of holding it accountable for many many years
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What has been delivered by any government over the last few years apart from continual lies ?
 
This has always been about who gets Mays job, 3 or 4 will come out of the pack along with their supporters who have all been promised cabinet posts for their support, it never was about Brexit.
 
Spanish said:
Personally I think there should be a second referendum, the first one was based on lies and deceit! Now there is a bit more known about it all, like the fact the NHS won't be getting the millions Farage promised etc...lets put it back out there, simples!

Stay
Go with no deal
May's deal

Simple as that
Click to expand...
This splits the leave vote in two.

So how about two papers -

Leave or stay?

1a) Leave
1b) Stay

If Brexit, what type?

e.g.

2a) Customs Union
2b) No Deal
2c) May's Deal

OR

Just have a referendum on the type of Brexit. To me, a Custom's Union Brexit would be the least damaging option and it would still honour the Leave vote - Leave voters could not argue about the democratic process.
 
Yorkiegit26 said:
What the hell do you think they have been debating in the HOC these last weeks LoL must be Friday
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There’s no majority for anything in the HOC and if there is a General Election I still think it would be tighter than Marcus Evans with a LAB / SNP / coalition minority government and virtually impossible to get anything through so I think the only answer is to let us sort it out instead and whether or not we ask leave or stay to let us choose hard / soft and so on.

All I hear from Brexiteers is that virtually anything they don’t want to happen is undemocratic - usually that thing is a second referendum or soft Brexit. On Question Time last night someone said the short extension was undemocratic - the date was not even set until a long time after the referendum so its complete nonsense. In most cases you can replace the phrase ‘undemocratic’ with ‘common sense’ and you get somewhere close to the truth.

The only thing that is indeed undemocratic is Theresa May riding roughshod over convention and ending up tying herself in ever increasing knots.
 
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