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Well Yorkie, we will have to disagree on whether Corbyn us a good thing or not for Labour. All I know is that I have worked for the party at every election since 1959 ( I was seven and ran the voter slips between the polling station and the committee room) and 2015 and I am done with the party, my vote will go to ChangeUK.

On Brexit, yes Leave did win. I personally know of three people who voted out simply to give Cameron a bloody nose and no doubt Aaron Banks gold mines in Moscow also accounted for a few of those 17.4 million. If Corbyn enables a Tory Brexit he will be lucky to get 25% of the vote next time.
 
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Lets face it if Corbyn was any sort of leader the Labour party would be out of sight in the polls considering the worst government that I can remember is in power, 500,000 party members amounts to very little on polling day, I want change but Cornyn doesn't inspire me.
A charismatic powerful orator would win a landslide I'm sure but Corbyn is none of those things so God help us if Bojo, Gove, or JRM, become PM.
 
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fieldmarshall said:
Lets face it if Corbyn was any sort of leader the Labour party would be out of sight in the polls considering the worst government that I can remember is in power, 500,000 party members amounts to very little on polling day, I want change but Cornyn doesn't inspire me.
A charismatic powerful orator would win a landslide I'm sure but Corbyn is none of those things so God help us if Bojo, Gove, or JRM, become PM.
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Again, I would come back to the fragmented SNP / UKIP and now Independent Group vote. Those SNP seats were traditionally Labour and according to the polls Labour and SNP together would comfortably have a majority. The SNP would I'm sure demand another Scottish referendum and so that may prove to be a sticking point if a General Election did unfold that way.

The Tories appear to be in such disarray simply because they can't muster a majority either.

Either there are going to be some rapid dramatic changes or it is going to take decades for this to resolve itself.

We no longer have a two party system.
 
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Scowey said:
Which can only be a good thing
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Not in a first past the post system. It leads to fractured minority governments like we have now. What we need, ironically, is a European style proportional representational democracy and a shift in the mindset of the current politics elite that coalition government and compromise are examples of positive politics and typically lead to a more democratically-elected government.
 
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Nuggets said:
Not in a first past the post system. It leads to fractured minority governments like we have now. What we need, ironically, is a European style proportional representational democracy and a shift in the mindset of the current politics elite that coalition government and compromise are examples of positive politics and typically lead to a more democratically-elected government.
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This would terrible. The current system is a check on the far right, which is gaining traction all over Europe. As a party sitting in the commons the BNP and now UKIP would have had far more credibility.
 
YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:
This would terrible. The current system is a check on the far right, which is gaining traction all over Europe. As a party sitting in the commons the BNP and now UKIP would have had far more credibility.
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I'm no fan of the far right, but to restore people's trust in democracy, our current system needs to be replaced. Most other developed countries in the world do not use first past the post anymore. I think there are enough 'left wing / centre left' voters in this country (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, Welsh and Scottish national parties) to create a meaningful, majority coalition government without relying on letting in the far right.
 
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YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:
This would terrible. The current system is a check on the far right, which is gaining traction all over Europe. As a party sitting in the commons the BNP and now UKIP would have had far more credibility.
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It really does not make a difference which way you lean politically, if a party is voted for in numbers why would you want to prevent them from being heard in the HOC.
What you are saying is that you want a fair democracy BUT you want to have control over who is allowed to be heard, that's a core value of any tin-pot dictator

again you have proved you have absolute contempt for the british people as you clearly don't trust them to be able to make an informed opinion of who they would like to represent them in parliament

I think you are just a control freak
 
Yorkiegit26 said:
It really does not make a difference which way you lean politically, if a party is voted for in numbers why would you want to prevent them from being heard in the HOC.
What you are saying is that you want a fair democracy BUT you want to have control over who is allowed to be heard, that's a core value of any tin-pot dictator

again you have proved you have absolute contempt for the british people as you clearly don't trust them to be able to make an informed opinion of who they would like to represent them in parliament

I think you are just a control freak
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If it makes me a control freak not to want to let fascism have the opportunity to grow in Britain then that’s what I am.

If you think we live in a fair democracy and society at the moment then you live in cloud cuckoo land.
 
YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:
If you think we live in a fair democracy and society at the moment then you live in cloud cuckoo land.
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No I don't, that's why I am a great believer of PR, but apparently you are against that too,your also against honouring the result of parliament letting the masses have their say,your also against anyone who hold different political views than you from having a say in parliament
Perhaps it would be easier for everyone if you just published your own manifesto including a list of those who are allowed a say in the way we are governed
 
Yorkiegit26 said:
No I don't, that's why I am a great believer of PR, but apparently you are against that too,your also against honouring the result of parliament letting the masses have their say,your also against anyone who hold different political views than you from having a say in parliament
Perhaps it would be easier for everyone if you just published your own manifesto including a list of those who are allowed a say in the way we are governed
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The majority of MPs do not share my political views. I don't want fascism to get a foot in the door to be able to grow as has been the case in France and Italy. That is at the expense of the Greens who I would rather had more representation in parliament. It's as simple as that really.

Bit rich for you to say that I am a control freak and not being willing to respect that I don't think PR is a good idea on this basis.

I also think it's very sensible to have a Chamber of experienced experts who are not elected to scrutinise our laws. It's not practical for the entire population to have a say on everything and in the case of another referendum, I don't see at all what benefit it would bring.
 
Everyone is banging on about the rise of the Far Right but little mention given to the rise of the Far Left under the leadership of Corbyn and his mob of Corbynistas! If he ever won power (heaven help us) the Country would be bankrupt within the year.
 
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johnnywarksmoustache said:
Everyone is banging on about the rise of the Far Right but little mention given to the rise of the Far Left under the leadership of Corbyn and his mob of Corbynistas! If he ever won power (heaven help us) the Country would be bankrupt within the year.
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Is this the same far left that founded the NHS? It’s hardly communism is it? We are light years away from the Labour Party being ‘far left’ anymore than the Tories are ‘far right’.
 
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Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are far left. Boris, JRM and the ERG are far right. I would prefer a sensible Tory government led by someone like Ken Clark or Dominic Grieve to the current Labour leadership. I do think the JWM is correct ( shurely shome mishtake?) in thinking that Corbyn might lead us towards an economic catastrophe but also a Boris led Tory government might lead us towards a Brexit one.
 
Farked19 said:
Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are far left. Boris, JRM and the ERG are far right. I would prefer a sensible Tory government led by someone like Ken Clark or Dominic Grieve to the current Labour leadership. I do think the JWM is correct ( shurely shome mishtake?) in thinking that Corbyn might lead us towards an economic catastrophe but also a Boris led Tory government might lead us towards a Brexit one.
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Boris is not Far Right that’s absolutely ridiculous. He does not even have far right ideals or aspirations. JRM is getting there. And the three Labour people are not advocating a communist society and neither are they going to when they are in power. They are on the left of the Labour Party but that is not the same as leading a communist party. Let’s get a bit of perspective on what those terms actually mean.

Let’s remember that for millions of people this country is already an economic catastrophe.
 
Please can the Corbyn supporters on this thread explain how I am able to vote for him? I am Jewish & even the labour canvassing team in my area have admitted on more than 1 occasion that he is anti Semitic. Labour is supposed to be a party of the people but that has to include everyone irrespective of race/ religion etc.
 
Roystonblue said:
Please can the Corbyn supporters on this thread explain how I am able to vote for him? I am Jewish & even the labour canvassing team in my area have admitted on more than 1 occasion that he is anti Semitic. Labour is supposed to be a party of the people but that has to include everyone irrespective of race/ religion etc.
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Hi Royston.

Jeremy Corbyn is not an antisemite. He has been one of the most vehement anti racist and anti nazi activists over the last 50 years. What he is opposing is the treatment of Palestinians and you could go as far as saying he is opposed to the Israeli government. Perhaps he is opposed to Zionism but that is not my reading of it, I simply think he wants a fair solution for Israelis and Palestinians (but you would have to ask him, I can't speak for him on that). Ken Livingstone is not an antisemite either by the way despite his careless comments in an intellectual conversation about Hitler.

It's a complex issue and because the lines have been blurred between being anti-zionist, anti-semitic and criticising Israel I think some Labour members have got overzealous in asserting their right to oppose Israel's actions and then I think there are a small number of members who have made what could be interpreted as antisemitic slurs and some cases of very serious abuse.

Before he became Labour leader Corbyn regularly joined demonstrations at arms factories that supplied Israel and there probably is some truth in his reputed support of Hamas.

He has not handled the situation well at all and of that he is certainly guilty, but the man does not have a prejudiced bone in his body on the basis of race.

That is my reading of it.

Some prominent Jews like David Baddiel have brought the debate back down to Earth (over the Jewdas meeting) whilst criticising his inaction and handling of the situation. I would say that is pretty much bang on. David Schneider seems to be supportive but likewise frustrated by the approach to tackling it. Alan Sugar is very much opposed but I don't think it has much to do with antisemitism and everything to do with capitalism vs socialism.

I can't tell you what the experience is really like in the Labour Party for Jews, there is clearly a problem. But I would hope it is a very small minority of idiots.
 
Ironically it was my best friend at primary school who was responsible for me getting interested in Labour. Mrs Gomberg, his mother, was a local councillor. They were wealthy beyond my wildest dreams, actually middle class, but they treated me as an equal. I have always been appreciative of Jewish people for their treatment of a working class boy as an equal.
 
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