but did we have the legal right to do that.seeing as we did not pay for him to transfer.yet the club are being persued in court for 18 million for the fat cripple.doc said we would win our case but even if we lose then perhaps we will take it to a real court .
Because of the legal issue, both ourselves and Leipzig said they would waive rights to the players registration to allow him to continue his football career. Basically both clubs were saying that they don't want him. The club are having to defend proceedings for compensation for £18,000,000 based upon the fact that Leipzig will have structured themselves financially, upon the basis of the contract that they had regarding the sale of the player to ourselves. I appreciate Doc has said that we would win and that Leipzig don't have a case to stand on. Without being privy to all documentation in the case , who can say who is in the right. My argument with Doc has been if we are reliant upon the contract date of 30th June then I think we are in trouble. I presume that there may well be other issues that the club are relying upon, not knowing what that information is , then it hard to say one way or another how either a sporting court or a legal court will judge the case. In my own opinion, I would want to avoid any type of legal court if the basis of any defence relies upon expiry date of a contract, because too many cases have been thrown out where they have relied upon a specific date. Doc and myself have disagreed on this for ages. I am only basing my judgement on the information that we see posted in the various media, and my mother's career as a contract lawyer(who has only the same info as myself on which to base any sort of opinion). For all I know Doc is privy to other information that we don't have that allows him to take the stance he has, but most of our discussions (ie myself and Doc) have centred on the contract date, my stance being that if Leipzig can show that the 30th June is just an arbitrary date used to represent the end of the football season, then they are in a strong position to win on that point alone. Look at it another way, by taking the stance that we have, the club are probably saving themselves in excess of £6million plus by not having to pay Augustin's wages. I've no idea what Augustin would have been paid, but £30k per week for a 4 year contract wouldn't have seemed unreasonable. It probably would have been higher than that, in which case we are saving more than £6mil, because realistically, I would say that Augustin would have had little to no re sale value, given how things have gone with his fitness. I should also point out that I will be overjoyed if I am wrong, and that we win the case. I will not be happy if I am right and we lose the case, however nor will I be suicidal over it, as I have already resigned myself to the outcome
Aski, just out of curiosity, don't know if you or anyone else know, but it is something I have always wondered about. So Leeds and Leipzig agree a transfer at a future date for x amount. But what happens if the player doesn't want to go to Leeds or can't agree personal terms etc.What if Leeds told the player they would pay him £300 per week when he signs?
It's a good question, to which I have no answer. I would presume all the financial aspects of the permanent deal, would have been agreed with the club and Agustin when the loan agreement was signed. However if Kev had decided that he couldnt settle, hated Leeds, Yorkshire, the UK etc, then I presume it would have been up to us to sell him. Say Kev had worked out and got us promoted and we were happy to pay Leipzig the money, and then Kev says he wants to be paid £500k per week. Without knowing exactly, I would have to presume that all this was sorted given the type of transfer agreed, when he joined us on loan, so that issues over the player personal contract wouldn't be able to cancel the transfer deal
Panic buy. Didn’t do due diligence and got our fingers burned. Very expensive and amateurish mistake.
With loan to buy deals like this one, the players contracts are agreed at the time of the loan. They have to be for the reasons expressed above. that’s assuming that the purchase part is obligatory/none optional - which it was in this case. Well sort of - it was obligatory subject to the promotion stipulation. These type of loans to buy are really purchases where certain elements are deferred to spread payments, skirt regulation and/or hedge/insure for either or both parties. In this case our insurance was we don’t fork out for a player we can’t afford if we don’t get promoted. We didn’t insure against him being crap which is the norm where you pay a loan fee with an option to buy. I don’t know the details of the legal defence but if it’s just the ‘date’ it looks questionable. I don’t know if we’re claiming that they knew he was a crock and were selling faulty goods. But I doubt that stands up… buyer beware and all that. That’s why you have Medicals. It was a panic buy. His parent club wanted shot… the original loan club wanted shot and were happy to release him - for a highly rated young starlet, he wasn’t getting game time. The red flags were there and pointed out by people at the time. . bit like lee Sharpe all those years ago.
Can’t believe how much his form and career fell away in such a short space of time. He was linked to a €37m move to Everton in Dec ‘18 Paris Saint-GermainEdit Augustin was first called up for a professional match for Paris Saint-Germain on 5 October 2014, remaining unused in a 1–1 home draw with Monaco. He made his professional debut on 8 April 2015 in the 2014–15 Coupe de France semi-finals against Saint-Étienne at the Parc des Princes, replacing Javier Pastore after 88 minutes in a 4–1 home win.[3] He played in PSG's 2–0 victory over Lyon on 1 August in the 2015 Trophée des Champions at the Stade Saputo in Montreal, replacing Edinson Cavaniafter 63 minutes.[4] Six days later he made his Ligue 1 debut, replacing Lucas Moura for the final minute of a 1–0 win at Lille.[5] On 16 August, he was given a first start, in a 2–0 win over Gazélec Ajaccio at the Parc des Princes.[6] In all competitions, Augustin made 17 appearances across the season, scoring once in a 4–1 home win over Troyes four minutes after coming on for Edinson Cavani on 28 November.[7] On 19 November 2016, Augustin made his first start of the season, providing the assist for Ángel Di Maríain the 13th minute in a 2–0 Ligue 1 home win against Nantes.[8] He made 13 official appearances over the campaign, and scored the last goal of a 6–0 win at Caen on 16 September.[9] At PSG, Augustin scored 2 goals in 23 league games and was mainly used as back up to main Strikers Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Edinson Cavani.[10] RB LeipzigEdit On 6 July 2017, RB Leipzig completed the €13 million signing of Augustin on a five-year deal, after being signed by Head Coach Ralph Hasenhüttl[11] He made his Bundesliga debut on 19 August, replacing Konrad Laimer for the final 14 minutes of a 2–0 loss at Schalke.[12] On 16 September, he scored his first goal for his new team, in a 2–2 draw with Borussia Mönchengladbach at the Red Bull Arena.[13] Augustin scored a match-winning penalty away to Borussia Dortmund on 14 October, becoming the first team of the season to win at the Westfalenstadion.[14] Three days later, he scored his first Champions League goal in a 3–2 home win over Porto in the group stage, Leipzig's first win in the competition.[15] He scored against Borussia Dortmund on 3 March 2018 to help earn Leipzig a 1–1 draw.[16] On 12 April 2018, Augustin scored in the Europa League quarter final defeat to Marseille in a 5–2 defeat, which saw Leipzig eliminated 5–3 on aggregate.[17] He scored 12 goals in all competitions and gained 6 assists in 37 appearances during the 2017–18 RB Leipzig season, with Augustin competing with the likes of Timo Werner and Yussuf Poulsen for starting places.[18] In September 2018, Augustin was disciplined by the club for using his mobile phone in the pre-match build up against RB Salzburg in a 3–2 defeat in the Europa League.[19] In November 2018, he scored in the Europa League in a 2–1 defeat against Celtic.[20]He was linked with a £37 million transfer to Premier League side Everton in December 2018, however remained at Leipzig.[21] He scored 8 goals in 30 appearances during the 2018–19 RB Leipzig seasonhelping RB Leipzig finish 3rd in Bundesliga under Head Coach Ralf Rangnick. Loan to MonacoEdit On 1 September 2019, Augustin joined Monaco on a season-long loan deal including an optional buyout clause.[22] He made his debut for the club on 15 September in a 3–4 loss against Marseille in Ligue 1.[23] He scored his first goal for the club on 30 October 2019, scoring a powerful right footed volley against Marseille in a 2–1 victory in the Coupe de la Ligue.[24] However, Augustin found himself competing for limited striking places with Wissam Ben Yedder, Islam Slimani, Stevan Jovetić and Keita Baldé.[25] On 27 January 2020, RB Leipzig and Augustin agreed to cut his loan spell at Monacoshort in order to secure his move to Leeds United on the same day.[26] Loan to Leeds UnitedEdit On 27 January 2020, Augustin joined EFL Championship side Leeds United on loan until the end of the season,[27] with the club reportedly having the option to sign him permanently for £17.7 million.[28] It was revealed that Augustin turned down a late offer from Premier League side Manchester United to sign for Leeds.[29][30]Augustin revealed that working with Leeds' head coach Marcelo Bielsa was a big factor in his decision to sign for the club.[31] Augustin made his debut for Leeds on 8 February 2020, coming on as a 71st minute substitute for Patrick Bamford in a 2–0 defeat to Nottingham Forest.[32] After three substitute appearances for Leeds, each one replacing Bamford with 15–20 minutes to play, Augustin suffered a muscular injury in late February, which ruled him out for the next three games.[33] He eventually left Leeds at the end of his loan deal, having only played 48 minutes of football for Leeds.[34] Ex-Leeds striker Jermaine Beckfordrevealed that the lack of playing time, and the reason for not extending the loan deal in light of the delayed season end, was down to Augustin not following instructions from management, and not putting in the required work.[35] It was later reported that Leeds had the obligation to complete a permanent transfer of Augustin due to a clause on Leeds achieving promotion to the Premier League at the end of the 2019-20 season, however Leeds claimed "extenuating circumstances" surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic "nullify the deal".[36] RB Leipzig threatened legal action over failure to complete the deal, claiming "The legal situation is clear".[36] Leeds boss Marcelo Bielsahowever was quoted as saying it was "convenient" for Augustin to return to RB Leipzig.[36] The disagreement lies with the date specified in the contract by which point Leeds should have been promoted. If Leeds had been promoted by 30 June, the clause was legally activated, however with Leeds still having 6 games to play by this date, Augustin's loan period ended and he was released by the club. Leeds sealed promotion on 17 July therefore not meeting the required clause date. Leipzig however argue that under the "spirit of the rules", the transfer should have taken place, as football contracts specify 30 June as the "end of a season", thus the circumstances surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic should be taken into account. FIFA confirmed on 8 December 2020 that Leipzig had officially filed a claim against Leeds over the aborted transfer.[37] On 8 June 2021, a FIFA court sided with Leipzig and against Leeds.[38] NantesEdit On 6 October 2020, Nantes announced the signing of Augustin on a two-year deal,[39] being signed as a free-agent, with both RB Leipzig and Leeds providing written permission, and relinquishing any claim to Augustin's registration.[40][37][41] On 4 March 2021, Nantes announced that Augustin was suffering from Long COVID.[42]
Would this not all hinge on his contract expiry date? The season was extended because of Covid, I presume most contracts expired at the same time so what was the situation with Berardi? Did he sign a short term extension to play the remaining delayed matches? You think of the Bournemouth player that refused to play their last nine games in case of injury, was he out of contract? If Berra signed an extension but JKA didn’t would this affect the outcome, likewise if Berra’s contract just rolled on as the season hadn’t finished I guess we’re toast.
So if the player contract is agreed at the time too, doesn't the player have a case too if Leipzig win?
I guess it depends on the contract phrasing! And I probably also phrased that badly. I meant The parties have to have agreed to the players terms for the contract…how binding they are for both parties? Dunno. But Otherwise we could have offered him a bag of peanuts so he refused the deal to get out if it. It seemed to transpire that both Leipzig and Leeds revoked rights to him so he could sign for someone else. Fck knows how those discussions went… but I imagine as part of it he signed an agreement not to come after either us or them.
I’ve always felt the same as you mate, we’re liable and to be honest we should be, it’s our mistake and it’s understandable we’re trying to wriggle out
Reported that West Ham offered 40 million plus 10 million add-ons for Raphinha who is now thinking of refusing a new contract. Contract runs out in summer of 2024. In my mind they'd have to double that at this moment in time.
I read something on the InsideFutbol site earlier, that said we had attempted to extend the loan and date of the permanent signing date back in April 2020. Whilst the opinion was because of that we are likely to lose the CAS case, it does beg the question why did Leipzig not agree. You have to presume the terms and conditions were fundamentally different, but I do see something like this actually being in our favour. However still think it's better to adopt the cautious approach, than build any hope up
