Weekend Debate

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ristac said:
Who was Marsch highly rated by, he was unemployed, I didn't see a queue forming for him

One simple question

Orta - Hello Jesse can you work with the players we have, are they going to suit your vision?

Jesse - No I am going to need at least 8-9 new players as I am not capable of coaching the ones you have to play in the style I adopt
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Really? I hope you're just fishing for a bite here.
 
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ristac said:
I agree when compared to the big guns but surely we are not worth less than Southampton. Isn't advertising on a shirt about views and how many people will see the advert. Look at our fan base and coverage and shirt sales, it's got to be greater than Southampton

Milky I agree with relegation, I haven't an issue with that. Then again what is the difference between Championship advertising and Premier league on a shirt
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Premier league is on tv in probably every country in the world, bar N Korea.
Championship watched in England and overseas by diehard fans.
 
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Sunderland have 1 fit striker in Gelhardt. They are 1-0 down and desperately need a goal to keep promotion hopes alive. Gelhardt has been that poor that they've taken him off.
 
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ristac said:
Genuinely who are these clubs that wanted to employ Jesse Marsch and why was he unemployed when we signed him if he was so highly thought of

You and Milky must be his biggest fan boys, I just don’t get it but there you go…
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Here we go with the fan boy stuff again. Milky and I aren't fan boys. We've openly criticised the system and it's weak points. The flip side of that is we also consider the positive side of his system which is where we differ. I have said numerous times that Marsch should be replaced in the summer but I'm of the opinion managers should be given time otherwise we end up like Watford. Hopefully Javi keeps us up and if he does then deserves to have extra time for us to fully integrate in to his way of playing. I will back him whilst he is here, like I would have done if Big Sam was here or Dyche. By the way, Javi record is nowhere near as impressive as Marsch. Just saying.

You asked where Marsch was highly regarded? He was coach of the year in the MLS, won trophies in the MLS, learnt his trade in the Red Bull network who have turned out many successful coaches,was assistant coach at a successful Leipzig side, won back to back doubles in Austria and then struggled back at Leipzig where they had sold alot of players and were transitioning.

On paper, he massively overshadows the much fancied De Zerbi at Brighton and also Potter at Chelsea. He was worth a stab at imo. We aren't a club who can just go out and get a top top proven manager as we've just found out recently. We've got to take risks and often these risks don't work out and that's the case with Jesse.

You don't get why me and Milky defend him. It's probably because he gets the blame for the funniest things on this forum. For example, you said Jesse is to blame for the flash point at Everton. Its ridiculous. Doc said in January that he'd wasted £170 million which included Wober, a possible signing at the time in Rutter and disregarding completely the sales of Phillips and Raphinha. Wober hadn’t even played at the time and Rutter was only just a rumour. Absolutely stupid comments yet I was called out on it.

It's obvious that Marsch wasn't working out here but some of the accusations are ridiculous.
 
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Emu said:
Here we go with the fan boy stuff again. Milky and I aren't fan boys. We've openly criticised the system and it's weak points. The flip side of that is we also consider the positive side of his system which is where we differ. I have said numerous times that Marsch should be replaced in the summer but I'm of the opinion managers should be given time otherwise we end up like Watford. Hopefully Javi keeps us up and if he does then deserves to have extra time for us to fully integrate in to his way of playing. I will back him whilst he is here, like I would have done if Big Sam was here or Dyche. By the way, Javi record is nowhere near as impressive as Marsch. Just saying.

You asked where Marsch was highly regarded? He was coach of the year in the MLS, won trophies in the MLS, learnt his trade in the Red Bull network who have turned out many successful coaches,was assistant coach at a successful Leipzig side, won back to back doubles in Austria and then struggled back at Leipzig where they had sold alot of players and were transitioning.

On paper, he massively overshadows the much fancied De Zerbi at Brighton and also Potter at Chelsea. He was worth a stab at imo. We aren't a club who can just go out and get a top top proven manager as we've just found out recently. We've got to take risks and often these risks don't work out and that's the case with Jesse.

You don't get why me and Milky defend him. It's probably because he gets the blame for the funniest things on this forum. For example, you said Jesse is to blame for the flash point at Everton. Its ridiculous. Doc said in January that he'd wasted £170 million which included Wober, a possible signing at the time in Rutter and disregarding completely the sales of Phillips and Raphinha. Wober hadn’t even played at the time and Rutter was only just a rumour. Absolutely stupid comments yet I was called out on it.

It's obvious that Marsch wasn't working out here but some of the accusations are ridiculous.
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I said no such thing about the flash point at Everton, where did I say that.

If he’d stayed until the summer we were going down.

MLS coach of the year, have you looked at past winners and what they’ve went on to achieve, there are no bragging rights about winning anything in the MLS and Salzburg that’s like managing Celtic when Rangers were kicked out

Leipzig climbed the table and finished second after sacking him. I’m refusing to do this any longer, the guy is a joke of a coach feel free to keep having the little quips and throw away comments, I’ll just breeze over them from now on <ok>
 
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ristac said:
I said no such thing about the flash point at Everton, where did I say that.

If he’d stayed until the summer we were going down.

MLS coach of the year, have you looked at past winners and what they’ve went on to achieve, there are no bragging rights about winning anything in the MLS and Salzburg that’s like managing Celtic when Rangers were kicked out

Leipzig climbed the table and finished second after sacking him. I’m refusing to do this any longer, the guy is a joke of a coach feel free to keep having the little quips and throw away comments, I’ll just breeze over them from now on <ok>
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You carry on finding criticism of the club you're supposed to support.

I'd much rather be glass half full.

By the way, this was your response to the 'flaspoint' at Goodison.



Morning all

Jesse was well known for wanting the players to get stuck in, there is a fine line though and I'm sure once we get a proper coach in he'll have a quiet word with him

Gnonto's first couple of games he was nothing like the fired up character we see today, he started getting worse after Jesse complained he is being a target, rather than making him feel a victim the next coach needs to teach him how to be more Grealish and less Tyson Fury
 
Emu said:
You carry on finding criticism of the club you're supposed to support.

I'd much rather be glass half full.

By the way, this was your response to the 'flaspoint' at Goodison.



Morning all

Jesse was well known for wanting the players to get stuck in, there is a fine line though and I'm sure once we get a proper coach in he'll have a quiet word with him

Gnonto's first couple of games he was nothing like the fired up character we see today, he started getting worse after Jesse complained he is being a target, rather than making him feel a victim the next coach needs to teach him how to be more Grealish and less Tyson Fury
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Criticism has been fully justified on everything Jesse related, the “supposed to support” comment is a little childish, just saying ;)

Yes regarding Ellands question about Gnonto

Was it not Tyler Adams that created the flashpoint
 
2 pennth said:
Personally I think it’s time we all agreed that Teddyboy Lasso was completely the wrong choice for Leeds United
Just saying
Again
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Yes, and both Milky and I would agree that Marsch wasn't right but that doesn't mean absolutely everything was his fault. It's absolutely ridiculous the things that were put on him by some fans. Embarrassingly so at times.
 
Think today we saw a coach who can stop conceding goals, we saw the usual crap from Harrison when it comes to greed and crap crosses even though he got the assist. We saw a coach who knows Aaronson ain’t that bad and needs games and I think we saw a coach who knows he has gold dust that needs some game time in Georginio. We saw a coach who ain’t afraid to rake off Gnonto because he was becoming ineffective in the 2nd half. I am liking the look, the shape and want to see a time when Sinisterra, Georginio, Rodrigo and Gnonto are doing damage
 
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milkyboy said:
Easy with hindsight risty. Football fans are always looking to cherry pick. If only bielsa didn’t have a small squad, if only his fitness regime that helped make us run harder didn’t lead to more injuries, if only bielsa had canned man marking etc etc.

The bielsa thing you have to take the rough with the smooth. They guy liked a small squad, it suited his togetherness principles, he wanted players who could play multiple positions to compensate- real understanding of his system was more important than having a fixed position to him.

Fans always want to pick the bits they like, often without recognising that changing something has knock on effects.

It’s why we typically have bielsa disciples and bielsa ‘if only’s’. Both views are actually wide of the mark in my opinion. He has a philosophy that has a shelf life in my opinion. Both on the physicality and the psychology of the players.

As a club the end of the first summer we all felt we needed to invest. Was the roadblock radz or bielsa? Personally I have no idea. But if it was bielsa you can’t criticise the club for not ‘over-ruling’ a guy who has only been successful because you gave him complete control.

As for getting the replacement wrong. Marsch was a highly rated coach in the game, there are countless examples of clubs taking highly rated coaches where it hasn’t worked out.
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You frequently hit the nail on the head and that is a great example my friend, spot on posting there my friend :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
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Without needing hindsight I can safely say we have a coach who gets us an average of 3 points per game which is Champions League stuff.he is the only head coach in the prem that is unbeaten too. So come on let’s have a happy Saturday instead of moaning about a coach getting us an average of 0.8 points per game. <laugh>
 
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Doc said:
Without needing hindsight I can safely say we have a coach who gets us an average of 3 points per game which is Champions League stuff.he is the only head coach in the prem that is unbeaten too. So come on let’s have a happy Saturday instead of moaning about a coach getting us an average of 0.8 points per game. <laugh>
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and let’s not forget his unbeaten run in Qatar Doc. The guy is unbeaten in two consecutive managerial appointments. I say we tie him down to a long term contract before those vultures at Real Madrid come shopping.
 
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Having reflected on yesterday I now believe Paddy is shot. He is struggling to create anything, wasteful when a chance presents itself and not really doing a job up top. Georginio is creative, fast, great feet and does create chances for himself. For me he needs to start. I also think Cooper will struggle to get his place back
 
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