Weekend Debate

So guys I’ve read all this next manager debate with interest. Seems few can agree on who would be a good choice -some even advocating skoobs because of a point at old Trafford. That point was Won with a battling performance but also one where we got an own goal and the opposition missed a stack of chances. Consensus was we played with a new freedom, but our articulate teenage Italian says we did nothing different. Let’s see how today goes.

We all watch games and see different things and we’re all subject to some degree of confirmation bias where we see what we want to see.

So my question to the forum with all this ongoing debate where managers are hailed or derided with sweeping statements is how qualified do you feel you are to judge what makes a good manager?


FA level 2 coaching badges. Coached youngsters for a few seasons.

Means Absolutely nothing compared to what you need to qualify as a top level coach, so know just as much as your average armchair fan. I believe Ortas got loads of coaching badges himself

Make of that what you will.

Cellino would have probably installed him, thinking about it <laugh>
 
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So guys I’ve read all this next manager debate with interest. Seems few can agree on who would be a good choice -some even advocating skoobs because of a point at old Trafford. That point was Won with a battling performance but also one where we got an own goal and the opposition missed a stack of chances. Consensus was we played with a new freedom, but our articulate teenage Italian says we did nothing different. Let’s see how today goes.

We all watch games and see different things and we’re all subject to some degree of confirmation bias where we see what we want to see.

So my question to the forum with all this ongoing debate where managers are hailed or derided with sweeping statements is how qualified do you feel you are to judge what makes a good manager?
I get where you’re coming from but a few are obvious, for example, do you need any background in football knowledge to know Lampard would be a bad choice as would Sam Allardyce.

I haven’t an issue with Skubala and Armas steadying the ship until we get a permanent guy in, I think many are forgetting Skubala is not alone, he has Armas. With their coaching badges what would define Steve Gerrard as a better option.

I’m a big believer that everyone has that moment in time where it all just clicks, if you’re basically being judged for success at one club like Iraola is then it’s a gamble. Is he on the riding a wave of promotion high like Bielsa was with Leeds on our first season back.

I think you have to at least tick one of two boxes, experience of coaching in England with a bit of success even if that’s finishing mid table with a lesser team or 2-3 decent European sides with at least some success. I know that immediately contradicts myself to an extent with Gerrard but it rules out Iraola.

Gallardo needs to manage another European team for me to not consider him a huge gamble. South America is laden with poverty, every Argentinian kid wants to be the next Messi or Maradona, they’re willing to soak up every ounce of coaching, they live and breathe football.

Great example was Bielsa with average players in the Championship and how he transformed them because they were hungry. Bring in Llorente, Rodrigo and Raphinha and in no time they were going backwards, I honestly believe the cultural difference between coaching South American players and upper level European is vast.

A no for Gallardo but on another hand an exciting unknown, I’d not be unhappy. If we want him like I said elsewhere, bring his chosen coaches in now

The more I’ve thought about realistic targets it’s Nuno Santos for me if we can’t poach Thomas Frank.
 
As far as Im concerned anyone will be a better option than Marsch, he was shocking. Reading what Rich is saying is giving me a headache as obviously there is nobody that’s good enough. We ain’t getting Poch or Tuchel we are at a different level, but we do need someone who can take us to that level so slagging everyone off is pointless. If its Nuno we will have to buy his contract out too but if he comes then fine because he had a pedigree once. But bigging him up for his championship team is a bit out of order as he had a prem team paid for by mega money owners. Wolves also had the second top agent in the world on the board so he was moving loads of his top talent in from Barcelona, Real Madrid, Benfica, Porto etc declaring cheap transfer fees but supplying better talent to those teams in exchange. In short the books were being cooked to get around FFFP rules. He did well in the Prem with Wolves right up to the time his player got his head smashed. Looked like he had a breakdown then and he should never have taken the Spurs job…
Mate, I’ve simply said most names are a gamble. I think you’ve probably slated as many as myself if you trawl through, I really don’t want to see Gerrard or Big Sam in charge and I’m sure you don’t either, nor do I want the Celtic guy.

I’m not silly, I know we’re going to probably have to get an Iraola, Slot or Gallardo but (don’t take this personally) I honestly can’t see why you big them up so much. I try to, I look into their history and record and I just see huge gamble.

If we get one, I honestly hope your excitement and enthusiasm is justified I really do. My consoling thought is only Lampard could be worse than Marsch
 
Mate, I’ve simply said most names are a gamble. I think you’ve probably slated as many as myself if you trawl through, I really don’t want to see Gerrard or Big Sam in charge and I’m sure you don’t either, nor do I want the Celtic guy.

I’m not silly, I know we’re going to probably have to get an Iraola, Slot or Gallardo but (don’t take this personally) I honestly can’t see why you big them up so much. I try to, I look into their history and record and I just see huge gamble.

If we get one, I honestly hope your excitement and enthusiasm is justified I really do. My consoling thought is only Lampard could be worse than Marsch

Whoever you bring in is a gamble. You can point to X, Y, and Z and show how they've been an absolute disaster at a club. You look at Jose at scum and it was a disaster to what you expect after managing Real and Inter to Champs League wins and forking out for Lukaku, Pogba, and Sanchez. I don't want Gerrard at our club if I'm being honest. He spent loads at Villa and used all his connections to get big names yet he still failed. Let's get one thing straight with both Gerrard and Lampard they got 'promoted' through the ranks too quickly because of their names even Paul Ince had to drag himself upward and look who that ended.

You can sit there and pop up every big material name in the book but let's face it, it's not going to happen. Yes, we need a big name to take us forward but I don't think we will attract them. The Summer of 2021 it took Spurs six attempts to bring in a manager and that means they were rejected 5 times by the likes of Potter the thing is we're in a worse situation than that right now. We just survived relegation and we're fighting for our lives again. I think the fan base needs to remember where we are and not who we were so to speak. You throw in the likes of Slot or Gallardo but are they going to come when they're on to good things at their own clubs to fight for Premier League survival? No, they're not.

You look at the last 2 managers and they really weren't stand-out names. Bielsa was living on his reputation from his time in South America. He couldn't get on with the Marseille board and quit. He quit Lazio which caused a lengthy legal battle and then got suspended from Lille. Yes the likes of Pep and Simone thought the sun shined out of his bucket but I can see why big clubs would stay well away from him. Marsch let's face it was an unknown after only managing with in the RB Network and we were the first job he had out of that comfort zone.

I think we need to be realistic.
 
I get where you’re coming from but a few are obvious, for example, do you need any background in football knowledge to know Lampard would be a bad choice as would Sam Allardyce.

I haven’t an issue with Skubala and Armas steadying the ship until we get a permanent guy in, I think many are forgetting Skubala is not alone, he has Armas. With their coaching badges what would define Steve Gerrard as a better option.

I’m a big believer that everyone has that moment in time where it all just clicks, if you’re basically being judged for success at one club like Iraola is then it’s a gamble. Is he on the riding a wave of promotion high like Bielsa was with Leeds on our first season back.

I think you have to at least tick one of two boxes, experience of coaching in England with a bit of success even if that’s finishing mid table with a lesser team or 2-3 decent European sides with at least some success. I know that immediately contradicts myself to an extent with Gerrard but it rules out Iraola.

Gallardo needs to manage another European team for me to not consider him a huge gamble. South America is laden with poverty, every Argentinian kid wants to be the next Messi or Maradona, they’re willing to soak up every ounce of coaching, they live and breathe football.

Great example was Bielsa with average players in the Championship and how he transformed them because they were hungry. Bring in Llorente, Rodrigo and Raphinha and in no time they were going backwards, I honestly believe the cultural difference between coaching South American players and upper level European is vast.

A no for Gallardo but on another hand an exciting unknown, I’d not be unhappy. If we want him like I said elsewhere, bring his chosen coaches in now

The more I’ve thought about realistic targets it’s Nuno Santos for me if we can’t poach Thomas Frank.
I’d like Thomas Frank but I don’t believe he would leave Brentford mid season.
 
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Frank would be ok but just for a while, he doesn’t have the ambition and is happy doing what he’s doing and doing it very well. That’s not having a go at him but he wants other things in life, not just football. The guys like Slot need clubs like Leeds so they can fulfil their ambitions so that’s why Advocate slammed Slot for turning Leeds down. Iraola wants to come because he sees a move to Leeds as the next step in his career but Gallardo maybe sees Leeds as not big enough or he may just want to do it from the start of the season, not half way through?

Kinnear has told the BBC the search is well on the way to being completed, so Popey reckons white smoke may come after the match or tomoz. That means it’s probably someone unemployed which worries me
 
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Frank would be ok but just for a while, he doesn’t have the ambition and is happy doing what he’s doing and doing it very well. That’s not having a go at him but he wants other things in life, not just football. The guys like Slot need clubs like Leeds so they can fulfil their ambitions so that’s why Advocate slammed Slot for turning Leeds down. Iraola wants to come because he sees a move to Leeds as the next step in his career but Gallardo maybe sees Leeds as not big enough or he may just want to do it from the start of the season, not half way through?

Kinnear has told the BBC the search is well on the way to being completed, so Popey reckons white smoke may come after the match or tomoz. That means it’s probably someone unemployed which worries me

Isn't Gerrard's name doing the rounds at the moment?
 
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Why would Thomas Frank leave Brentford for us? I dunno why he is even being mentioned as a plausible solution.

Same with Kompany.
 
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On reflection if we cannot get our top 3 choices I will hope we get Nuno and pay his release clause. At least he has a reputation and knows how to win leagues and cups and has a very good win rate % even at Spurs he was 47% and just imagine where Leeds would be now if Marsch had that win ratio
 
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Whoever you bring in is a gamble. You can point to X, Y, and Z and show how they've been an absolute disaster at a club. You look at Jose at scum and it was a disaster to what you expect after managing Real and Inter to Champs League wins and forking out for Lukaku, Pogba, and Sanchez. I don't want Gerrard at our club if I'm being honest. He spent loads at Villa and used all his connections to get big names yet he still failed. Let's get one thing straight with both Gerrard and Lampard they got 'promoted' through the ranks too quickly because of their names even Paul Ince had to drag himself upward and look who that ended.

You can sit there and pop up every big material name in the book but let's face it, it's not going to happen. Yes, we need a big name to take us forward but I don't think we will attract them. The Summer of 2021 it took Spurs six attempts to bring in a manager and that means they were rejected 5 times by the likes of Potter the thing is we're in a worse situation than that right now. We just survived relegation and we're fighting for our lives again. I think the fan base needs to remember where we are and not who we were so to speak. You throw in the likes of Slot or Gallardo but are they going to come when they're on to good things at their own clubs to fight for Premier League survival? No, they're not.

You look at the last 2 managers and they really weren't stand-out names. Bielsa was living on his reputation from his time in South America. He couldn't get on with the Marseille board and quit. He quit Lazio which caused a lengthy legal battle and then got suspended from Lille. Yes the likes of Pep and Simone thought the sun shined out of his bucket but I can see why big clubs would stay well away from him. Marsch let's face it was an unknown after only managing with in the RB Network and we were the first job he had out of that comfort zone.

I think we need to be realistic.
Great post
 
The Gerrard question is seriously scares me. He is just like Lampard and given a big job he couldn’t do. He did a great job at Rangers but questions on the standard and how much he was responsible? He did have a 68% win ratio but at Villa that fell off a Cliff and just like Marsch who had a 69% ratio in Austria when he went to Germany it fell off a Cliff to 37% just like Gerrard so scary out of the frying pan stuff. Nuno however has been consistent throughout his career
 
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The Gerrard question is seriously scares me. He is just like Lampard and given a big job he couldn’t do. He did a great job at Rangers but questions on the standard and how much he was responsible? He did have a 68% win ratio but at Villa that fell off a Cliff and just like Marsch who had a 69% ratio in Austria when he went to Germany it fell off a Cliff to 37% just like Gerrard so scary out of the frying pan stuff. Nuno however has been consistent throughout his career
His performances at villa fell off a cliff when he lost his number two. If the board appoint him then they’ve completely lost the plot