We should keep Bruce

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Anon-a-mackem

Anon-a-mackem

New Member
Apr 11, 2011
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Hello fellow sufferers of the Sunderland disease. This is my first post so you'll forgive me if its long winded. I've been watching the threads on bbc 606 and now this one for a couple of years now. I've very much entertained and informed by most of the comments here but there comes a stage in a mans life when he feels that he is mature enough to articulate his own thoughts.

So onto business:
I was slightly depressed to see Steve Bruce appointed as none of his previous work in management was particularly memorable or effective in the field of trophys, top 6 finishes etc. The club needed stability though, so i was satisfied with the prospect 16th-11th for a few seasons. Then he bought Bent, Cana, Cattermole and Campbell and i watched as some of the top teams in England soiled themselves, especially in midfield. I realised that this man, this boring midtable manager, he means business.

We all know what has transpired between now and then.

I've read some opinions about Bruce losing the dressing room, players not playing for him. Who are these players then? I know who they're not:
Bardsley - His best season yet at any club.
Gyan - Never stops working.
Malbranque - Commited to playing wide left (even though he should clearly be in the hole putting the through balls in)
Cattermole - The man is clearly not match fit.
Onuoha - A Pro in every sense of the word.
Mignolet - Not too bad for his first season in the PL.
Welbeck - Not match fit either, but again he works.

Injured players (Campbell, Bramble, Meyler, Gordon) aside that leaves who?
Ferdinand, Henderson, Zenden, Elmo, Riveros, Mensah, Richardson,Turner, Angeleri.
Are they cover, deadwood or inexperienced? In any case i'd be happy to be shot of them if they don't like the Bruce regime.
As for the January pair, i'd say wait and see.

Now i'm not completely one sided. Mistakes have certainly been made:
No real cover at fullback
No replacement for bent (short term or otherwise) The Newcastle results
The sale of Da Silva (the man could read the game with his eyes closed and we keep Ferdinand?)

I even have to consider whether Bruce's training methods are at fault given the injury recurrences.

However, we have the makings of a real team here. Not a comfortable mid-table team but a winning team capable of europe, silverware and points off the big boys. I'm willing to wait for Steve Bruce to get his act together, to sign the right players and to build the team spirit.
You see, this man Bruce is arrogant with his football. He wants the midfield to crunch then click, the forwards to work work all the time and the defense to stand as one. He wants to blood the youngsters, risk the untried (gyan could have flopped) but most of all he wants to beat the best. Thats what i see on the good days.

In the meantime 3-4 points (if that) will see us safe for another year.

I don't know where those points are going to come from either but they'll come if i'm right about this guy.

If i'm wrong i'll go back to just reading the thread.

Thanx for reading
 
Good read. I'm not so sure about Bruce, but I think that he should stay until at least the end of the season. I don't think we'll get relegated, but a win this weekend could still put us back up to 9th.
 
Welcome to the board mate.

I'm really on the fence at the moment concerning Bruce. If we finish top 10 keep him, if not serious questions need to be asked.
 
Good article, but I have to take issue with the "cover, dead wood or inexperienced" list. Henderson can come good, as he has talent, even if he's crap at the moment. Elmo and Zenden have talent and work hard. Haven't seen enough of Riveros to be any the wiser. Turner is a decent player when the defense is working.

Cattermole is a very good midfielder, but he needs to keep his head on straight. Too many bookings for my liking in the middle of the park when there's no real danger. Onuoha has also looked pretty ordinary lately.

Other than that am in agreement.
 
Anon-a-mackem said:
Hello fellow sufferers of the Sunderland disease. This is my first post so you'll forgive me if its long winded. I've been watching the threads on bbc 606 and now this one for a couple of years now. I've very much entertained and informed by most of the comments here but there comes a stage in a mans life when he feels that he is mature enough to articulate his own thoughts.

So onto business:
I was slightly depressed to see Steve Bruce appointed as none of his previous work in management was particularly memorable or effective in the field of trophys, top 6 finishes etc. The club needed stability though, so i was satisfied with the prospect 16th-11th for a few seasons. Then he bought Bent, Cana, Cattermole and Campbell and i watched as some of the top teams in England soiled themselves, especially in midfield. I realised that this man, this boring midtable manager, he means business.

We all know what has transpired between now and then.

I've read some opinions about Bruce losing the dressing room, players not playing for him. Who are these players then? I know who they're not:
Bardsley - His best season yet at any club.
Gyan - Never stops working.
Malbranque - Commited to playing wide left (even though he should clearly be in the hole putting the through balls in)
Cattermole - The man is clearly not match fit.
Onuoha - A Pro in every sense of the word.
Mignolet - Not too bad for his first season in the PL.
Welbeck - Not match fit either, but again he works.

Injured players (Campbell, Bramble, Meyler, Gordon) aside that leaves who?
Ferdinand, Henderson, Zenden, Elmo, Riveros, Mensah, Richardson,Turner, Angeleri.
Are they cover, deadwood or inexperienced? In any case i'd be happy to be shot of them if they don't like the Bruce regime.
As for the January pair, i'd say wait and see.

Now i'm not completely one sided. Mistakes have certainly been made:
No real cover at fullback
No replacement for bent (short term or otherwise) The Newcastle results
The sale of Da Silva (the man could read the game with his eyes closed and we keep Ferdinand?)

I even have to consider whether Bruce's training methods are at fault given the injury recurrences.

However, we have the makings of a real team here. Not a comfortable mid-table team but a winning team capable of europe, silverware and points off the big boys. I'm willing to wait for Steve Bruce to get his act together, to sign the right players and to build the team spirit.
You see, this man Bruce is arrogant with his football. He wants the midfield to crunch then click, the forwards to work work all the time and the defense to stand as one. He wants to blood the youngsters, risk the untried (gyan could have flopped) but most of all he wants to beat the best. Thats what i see on the good days.

In the meantime 3-4 points (if that) will see us safe for another year.

I don't know where those points are going to come from either but they'll come if i'm right about this guy.

If i'm wrong i'll go back to just reading the thread.

Thanx for reading
Click to expand...

Bloody hell Steve, NOT606 must be famous if you joined up to defend yourself. :p<devil>
 
I was never Bruce's favourite fan before we appointed him however, offloading a bit of dead wood, bringing in some of his choice signings, I'll admit, things were looking a little rosier .... for a time.

However, I find myself asking, has progress actually been made? For the second season running we are now in the midst of a yet another mid-season implode!

In my opinion, and I know it's only my opinion, Bruce struggles tactically.

Anyone who was at the match against West Brom will know, that there was an air of inevitability about Brom's second and third goals, they had been stroking the ball around, with no Sunderland players able to touch the ball for the best part of 10 minutes before their equaliser and the 3rd followed pretty quickly.

Where was Bruce during this time? Hidden away in his dug out seemingly unable to think of anything, absolutely anything to help change the onslaught. There was a mild BOO went round the ground after their 3rd goal, it was at this point Bruce jumped out of the dugout (looking clueless I must admit) and proceeded to bark orders at the players. Duno what the orders were but **** me they had no effect. As for bringing on our slowest midfielder, and sticking him in the centre of the park when our captain was running around like a headless chicken, scared to tackle, for me was beyond belief.

As for the interviews after the games, I want to hear some grit and steel and what we're going to do next match to change it around, is this what we get? Nooo, we get the same lame, friendly excuses. He's a cany bloke, don't get me wrong, I just think he's living on borrowed time now. I have no magic answers as to who I would replace him with, however I think a certain Mr Short will certainly have his eyes elsewhere at this moment in time.

My opinion, sure others differ.
 
Admitedly my "cover, dead wood or inexperienced" list does seem somewhat cloudy. Its very difficult to single out any players who've really let anyone down with the exception of Ferdinand who is no more than cover.

There does seem to be a problem of tracking opposition midfields in our box which was as evident at Newcastle as it was against WBA. I presume Muntari was brought in to combat the problem but thats no good if you don't play him.
 
The thing is though, the players that we've got are good and they have proven that they're good. Mig/Gordon, Onouoha, Mensah, Turner, Bardsley, Henderson, Muntari, Sessegnon, Gyan, Welbeck. That squad is absolutely brilliant and can beat the best of the Prem if they play as a team. At the moment we just have 11 sad individuals jogging around on a piece of grass. I think they just need a massive kick up the arse and to be told to do their job.
 
manageordieal said:
Agree with most of this analysis. But wheb have Sees n Muntari showed themselves to be good at the club? bearing in mind they constitute half the midfield
Click to expand...

I mean that they've proved themselves elsewhere; Sessegnon was one of PSG's star players and Muntari, well, I don't really have the time to put down all of his achievements! They should be improving the squad massively, but they're not.
 
A good read and some valuable points raised, particularly regarding individual team members. I agree with this.....

Bardsley - His best season yet at any club.
Gyan - Never stops working.
Malbranque - Commited to playing wide left (even though he should clearly be in the hole putting the through balls in)
Cattermole - The man is clearly not match fit.
Onuoha - A Pro in every sense of the word.
Mignolet - Not too bad for his first season in the PL.
Welbeck - Not match fit either, but again he works.

Now as for the rest!

Ferdinand - Definately no more than a back up player.
Henderson - I like him, but he has totally lost his way for a number of months now. On current form, no more than the bench.
Zenden - A cracking player, but too slow for the premier league, due to his age. Another bench warmer.
Elmo - This guy should be starting every one of our last 6 matches. Still has a lot to learn about passing/crossing, but he is the best we have available on the right flank, due to his work rate and pace.
Riveros - Has struggled to adapt to the EPL. As he demonstrated in the world cup, he clearly has talent, but we are yet to see it in a red and white shirt. Bench.
Mensah - WHEN he's fit and on form he is a fantastic defender. Unfortunately, he is never going to maintain a sustained period of fitness, making him a liability to the club. We need players who can stand up to the rigors of premier league football, so we should not make his move permanent at the end of the season.
Richardson - Our only utility player. Inconsistency and injury has always been his problem. Left Back or the bench for me!
Turner - Size is his greatest asset. Great in the air, not so great on the ground and woefully slow. His aerial prowess keeps him in the starting line up.
Angeleri - I can't make a judgement on him having only seen him play 45 minutes! He must have something about him, to be picked for the Argentine national squad?
"The January Pair" - Asking a lot of them to come in mid season and perform miracles. They will take time to adapt to our club. I would try Muntari out on the left wing and Sess in the hole because he has failed to convince me on the wings.

So picking the bones out of this lot I would try this team, in this formation....

Mig

Bardsley......Turner......Onuoha......Ricco

Catts

Elmo...................Muntari

Sess

Gyan......Welbeck​
 
I'm torn on this. I've always liked Bruce and still do, and I hate the modern fad of knee jerk sacking of managers, but I'm not sure where we go from here. If we stay up and end up in 15th place or something, then Bruce will have failed miserabley in his remit of getting us to be a top ten team as outlined by Ellis Short on his appointment. However we've just given Steve a band spanking new contract- so would Short be happy with paying out a few million to sack his manager? Alternatively if Brucie stays will Short be happy to dispense with another 25-30 million to a mananger who's had more to spend than all other Sunderland managers put together and who has degressed rather than progressed? I can't see it. Unless we win all our remaining games and surge up the table, and if that happens I'll be delighted for us and Bruce, I can't see how Short trusts Brucie enough to allow him control over huge sums of money. So in my view if it stays as it is and we struggle till the end of the season and just about stay up, Short will push the big red exit button for Mr. Bruce.
 
Very good first post mate, and a nicely balanced view.

The fact for me is that Bruce's continued tactical failings mean he will never get us anywhere higher than upper mid-table, it's this that convinces me that it's time to bring in a top, top manager, who isn't afraid, and, more importantly knows how to change it when it's going Pete Tong.
 
Delighted to sell da silva XD and malbranque should not be playing full stop.

very good article though and i agree with the rest of what you had to say, its all well and good saying "he should have gone" but someone has to want them
 
We are all experts on here ANON. Whether you are right or wrong about Bruce keep posting. Think of it as a badge of honour.

Has Bruce Lost the Dressing Room?
I don't think so. Yes there has to be some level of disruption. Even Gyan must get ****ing depressed after a three month slump. That said all professional footballers are programmed to win and to react positively to defeat. I think it would have leaked by now if there was serious unrest amongst the players.

Has Bruce got the Tactics Wrong?
Yes sometimes. Is this why we are once again in the muddy bog? No. The reality is 11 quality players committed totally to winning will beat a tactically aware side with inferior players nearly every time. It’s a simple game 100% concentration, attack when you have the ball, otherwise defend.

Can Bruce Motivate the Players?

Better than some. Will he ever rival Ferguson/Wenger/Mourinho? Unlikely


So why the collapse? The Players are to blame.
 
I've always thought that a team is a reflection of its Manager. On Saturday, our Manager says his team were "all over the place". Also, they didn't look like they knew what to do. Like I said after the Liverpool defeat, there's "something" missing, something not right. Hope there's an about turn, but just can't see it coming.
 
Jersey a dare you to put down ALL of Muntaris achievements!!!
As far as I know he has 4 premier league goals for the mighty Portsmouth. Has got one big medal in European Cup Winner. However, he was soon sussed out by the boss and only played 2-3 goals this season. Great achievers dont do it from the bench and dont leave a leading European club, unless somethuing is wrong. To me there is something wrong- he is(and always has been to me) highly overrated, he scores the odd great goal but apart from that offers nowt much else. My point was forgetting who they are or how much they cost etc. the 2 of them (Sess is the other) when playing constitute 50% of the midfield and they simply aren't doing a good job at the minute.
They may well be good players given time but since signing they've both been at best average.
 
Wherewereyou said:
I've always thought that a team is a reflection of its Manager. On Saturday, our Manager says his team were "all over the place". Also, they didn't look like they knew what to do. Like I said after the Liverpool defeat, there's "something" missing, something not right. Hope there's an about turn, but just can't see it coming.
Click to expand...

Agree entirely.This is Bruces team and last weeks inept performance may well prove a bridge to far for Short whathever happens now.The team has let Bruce down again in my view.
 
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