Warnock Out
- Thread starter Simon21-LUFC
- Start date
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People need to stop being so offended.
I'm sure that Warnock would have much preferred to be lining up with Snodgrass in his team instead of Diouf, but that hasn't been possible. We haven't got the money at the moment, for whatever reason, to sign who he wants to sign. So we're desperate, because the season starts in one week and we have a squad that has some good but very unspectacular players, and Diouf can provide a bit of creativity or spark that can win us games. I'd prefer us to have someone different, but he's a short term option at least. We need a player that can create chances.
If Diouf plays well, then he can win us games. If he doesn't, then we can release him whenever we want at no charge. It's worth the risk.
The takeover is back on - You will soon have money to spend (and as proud states, buy better players without the trouble) The problem here is the damage to your clubs reputation
to the Leeds fans standing against this hypocritical error of judgement
I don't know how people can justify signing this idiot. On a "non-contract" basis or not, he'll still be in training, he'll still be in the dressing room and in general around the club. The guy is dirt, having Warnock as manager is one thing for me, but Diouf as a leeds united player is another. The guy doesn't deserve anything from these great fans imo
I don`t know what to think anymore,hrmmph
Morning Dangermouse
Morning Farsley
You do know what to think, but saying it out loud will speak against one of your players - Never easy
And the same accusation could be made to some about Diouf.
History is clearly important, but everyone has the right to redemption and to forge themselves a better future and a better reputation - you can only do that if others have the maturity to give someone another chance
Piss off. The man's an odious cockroach and always will be. "Redemption" has nothing to do with this.
Now casting emotions aside, let's look at this completely objectively. This is a player who half the fans will refuse to support and who has a troubled history with a couple of our best players, the signing also ruins Warnock's reputation amongst a significant portion of our fans. All of this to sign a player who: 1. Is liable to self destruct on the pitch at any moment, 2. Is the opposite of a team player, 3. ISN'T EVEN GOOD
I can only see this as a disastrous error of judgement from Warnock that was made in desperation and one he will have to work very hard to rectify.
I refer you to the last sentence of my last contribution
I'm always prepared to give people 2nd chances, it's in my nature, but Diouf has proved time and time again that he can't be trusted with any more chances. I believe he will have a negative effect on the club I love for as long as he is here, and so I want him gone as soon as possible.
In my books, anyone pulling on a Leeds jersey deserves a chance. if people are going to turn on players before they've kicked a ball for us, I find it pathetic? Whatever about discussing it on forums! In no way would I condone the booing of a new signing before he has had a chance
But it's not about how well he plays. He's a horrible human being who doesn't deserve to wear our shirt and IMO if people want to let him know that then they should.
My opinion - redemption and second chances is a british value that I am happy to apply in this case.
Diouf comes from a different culture and a different country, he has different values and thinks in different ways. Some of those things will rile - no-one ever claimed footballers were clever - but football players are ensconced in an industry that is very macho and alpha-male dominated.
They do not receive daily training courses on etiquette or on the latest laws on diversity and they don't get those things rammed down their throat on a daily basis like I do at my work (with the threat of immediate sack). Every player's focus is on being the best, the most aggressive, the most powerful, the most passionate, their aim is to be better than the person and the team they are up against, to beat them, and they will use any way of getting there to do it. And in doing that, they are in a confrontational fast-paced aggressive and pasionate environment.
In the industry of football and on the field of play and in discussing their own and others' performances, they will defend themselves in any way shape or form. So Warnock calls him a sewer rat a few minutes after a game, and Diouf says he doesn't care what he says. So what?
So Diouf spits at someone and is roundly criticised and punished for it by the FA. That's done - it's gone. He shouts at a player who he feels is feigning injury, but has actually broken his leg. He made a mistake and was criticised for it, but it's part of the alpha male stuff, just like Alfie Haaland and Roy Keane.
So he made other mistakes or reacted in a way that is seen as "normal" (if not acceptable) in his culture but certainly not in ours. He was punished for them. And he's not clever enough to stop himself from doing those things again - anyone claim he is clever?
I claim that none of those things should bar a person from being able to earn his corn in the industry he feels he has the most talent to make money in.
Diouf comes from a different culture and a different country, he has different values and thinks in different ways. Some of those things will rile - no-one ever claimed footballers were clever - but football players are ensconced in an industry that is very macho and alpha-male dominated.
They do not receive daily training courses on etiquette or on the latest laws on diversity and they don't get those things rammed down their throat on a daily basis like I do at my work (with the threat of immediate sack). Every player's focus is on being the best, the most aggressive, the most powerful, the most passionate, their aim is to be better than the person and the team they are up against, to beat them, and they will use any way of getting there to do it. And in doing that, they are in a confrontational fast-paced aggressive and pasionate environment.
In the industry of football and on the field of play and in discussing their own and others' performances, they will defend themselves in any way shape or form. So Warnock calls him a sewer rat a few minutes after a game, and Diouf says he doesn't care what he says. So what?
So Diouf spits at someone and is roundly criticised and punished for it by the FA. That's done - it's gone. He shouts at a player who he feels is feigning injury, but has actually broken his leg. He made a mistake and was criticised for it, but it's part of the alpha male stuff, just like Alfie Haaland and Roy Keane.
So he made other mistakes or reacted in a way that is seen as "normal" (if not acceptable) in his culture but certainly not in ours. He was punished for them. And he's not clever enough to stop himself from doing those things again - anyone claim he is clever?
I claim that none of those things should bar a person from being able to earn his corn in the industry he feels he has the most talent to make money in.
I agree he is a horrible person ! but if you take in to account everything he has done wrong has been in the public eye, can you tell me you are squeaky clean ?, I sure as hell would not want some of the stuff I have done to be aired publicly, so lets judge the guy while he is here playing for us and not on his past mistakes, one more thing Simon who would you bring in to replace Warnock ?.
From the OS:
United manager Neil Warnock says he has nothing to lose by giving Senegalese international El Hadji Diouf the chance to impress at Elland Road.
The former Liverpool and Blackburn man joined on a non-contract basis on Thursday and made his debut as a second half substitute in Saturday's 4-0 Elland Road win against Shrewsbury Town.
"I met him about six or seven weeks ago," explained the boss. "It wasn't a planned meeting, but we ended up having an hour- and-a-half chat and I told him what I disliked about him and he talked to me about the things that he's done in football.
"It opened my eyes in what I thought about him and nobody has said worse things about him than I have. It would have been easy for me not to bring him to the club but I've never been one to shirk a situation.
"A friend of mine, Micky Walker, who was at Doncaster Rovers, couldn't speak highly enough of him. He said he's good in the dressing room, he's excellent with the youngsters, and is a bit of a likeable rogue. And he told me his weaknesses.
"We're also short on the right hand side. There's a not a lot of money without moving players out - there's a couple of Premiership lads I've looked at, but they're on a lot of money - so I thought we'd have a look
"We're going to be looking for a few more goals from that position as well and he fits the bill. It'll take the pressure off me as well because they'll have a go at him not me! Its non contract, so we've nothing to lose."
United manager Neil Warnock says he has nothing to lose by giving Senegalese international El Hadji Diouf the chance to impress at Elland Road.
The former Liverpool and Blackburn man joined on a non-contract basis on Thursday and made his debut as a second half substitute in Saturday's 4-0 Elland Road win against Shrewsbury Town.
"I met him about six or seven weeks ago," explained the boss. "It wasn't a planned meeting, but we ended up having an hour- and-a-half chat and I told him what I disliked about him and he talked to me about the things that he's done in football.
"It opened my eyes in what I thought about him and nobody has said worse things about him than I have. It would have been easy for me not to bring him to the club but I've never been one to shirk a situation.
"A friend of mine, Micky Walker, who was at Doncaster Rovers, couldn't speak highly enough of him. He said he's good in the dressing room, he's excellent with the youngsters, and is a bit of a likeable rogue. And he told me his weaknesses.
"We're also short on the right hand side. There's a not a lot of money without moving players out - there's a couple of Premiership lads I've looked at, but they're on a lot of money - so I thought we'd have a look
"We're going to be looking for a few more goals from that position as well and he fits the bill. It'll take the pressure off me as well because they'll have a go at him not me! Its non contract, so we've nothing to lose."
You'd think he'd done something to you personally.
Once you get a reputation, then more and more people will try and provoke you. Look at the John Terry case and how Anton Ferdinand was saying all that stuff about his private life on the pitch. This sort of thing will happen to Diouf all the time, which is turn leads to more incidents. But he's had 5 red cards in 400 games in his career - that's really not that bad. The press just latched onto him and made him into a hate figure.
I don't reckon he's anywhere near as much trouble as people make out.
He's already had a 2nd chance, and a 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. He's 31 FFS, not some troubled youngster.
I'd say I'm relatively "squeaky clean", certainly not done anything to the level of the things Diouf's done (which I'll get to in my next answer).
In reply to your second question, I'd want Mick McCarthy or Dougie Freedman.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4393738.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ghtclub-brawl-left-man-seriously-injured.html
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/24116-diouf-held-over-wife-assault
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ers/6221942/El-Hadji-Diouf-wall-of-shame.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ji-Diouf-targets-Jamie-Mackie-broken-leg.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/20/leeds-united-doncaster-rovers-brawl
That took me about 3 minutes.
So:
a) drink driving 7 years ago - that has been spent. Many people continue to drink drive, and many footballers get caught. Has he done it again?
b) The Daily Mail focus on Diouf in April 2012 for a brawl in a nightclub, but there is nothing to say from the article other than he was there and was taken by the police. What information is next? When's the court case? Innocent until proven guilty? I've never heard of a footballer being involved in a brawl in a nightclub before though.
c) 6 years ago he has a bust up with his wife. Sorry Simon, but you clearly know nothing about different cultures. No it is not acceptable in our culture, but that is only a recent phenomenon that domestic violence has taken a priority - go back a couple of generations in UK and it was widespread and swept under the carpet
d) So he has not spat ayt anyone since 2004, yet some still castigate him for it? The Daily Telegraph can only find issues prior to 2009, 3 years ago. The last one is an allegation he made a racist comment to a ball boy at Everton - clearly not taken further or not proven. In March 2003 and in Nov 2004 he gets caught for spitting incidents, is punished, it does not happen again, while the other stuff is the type of stuff that is reported about many many people every day of the year in the media. Weak.
e) Reporting of Diouf's sneering at a player he thought was feigning injury but had broken his leg. Mistakes happen - as mentioned above in a previous contribution, this is a macho world and industry and these things happen a lot. Watch any game and people accuse others of diving or cheating or feigning injury all the time. It just so happens Diouf got it wrong in this instance. So what? He did nothing different to every other footballer except get the situation wrong.
f) We know there was something that happened after the Donny game last season, but the police dropped their investigation - clearly just high levels of passion that boiled over. Are you happy McCormack was involved and fighting his corner? Now just turn it round. Nothing here.
All that that list proved is that Diouf courts media attention, and probably gets unwanted and abusive attention from pissed up dickheads in nightclubs too. There's nothing there since 2004 that justifies your opinion of him, because there are a lot of other players who have done exactly the same.
a) drink driving 7 years ago - that has been spent. Many people continue to drink drive, and many footballers get caught. Has he done it again?
b) The Daily Mail focus on Diouf in April 2012 for a brawl in a nightclub, but there is nothing to say from the article other than he was there and was taken by the police. What information is next? When's the court case? Innocent until proven guilty? I've never heard of a footballer being involved in a brawl in a nightclub before though.
c) 6 years ago he has a bust up with his wife. Sorry Simon, but you clearly know nothing about different cultures. No it is not acceptable in our culture, but that is only a recent phenomenon that domestic violence has taken a priority - go back a couple of generations in UK and it was widespread and swept under the carpet
d) So he has not spat ayt anyone since 2004, yet some still castigate him for it? The Daily Telegraph can only find issues prior to 2009, 3 years ago. The last one is an allegation he made a racist comment to a ball boy at Everton - clearly not taken further or not proven. In March 2003 and in Nov 2004 he gets caught for spitting incidents, is punished, it does not happen again, while the other stuff is the type of stuff that is reported about many many people every day of the year in the media. Weak.
e) Reporting of Diouf's sneering at a player he thought was feigning injury but had broken his leg. Mistakes happen - as mentioned above in a previous contribution, this is a macho world and industry and these things happen a lot. Watch any game and people accuse others of diving or cheating or feigning injury all the time. It just so happens Diouf got it wrong in this instance. So what? He did nothing different to every other footballer except get the situation wrong.
f) We know there was something that happened after the Donny game last season, but the police dropped their investigation - clearly just high levels of passion that boiled over. Are you happy McCormack was involved and fighting his corner? Now just turn it round. Nothing here.
All that that list proved is that Diouf courts media attention, and probably gets unwanted and abusive attention from pissed up dickheads in nightclubs too. There's nothing there since 2004 that justifies your opinion of him, because there are a lot of other players who have done exactly the same.
No, you're right, the wife beating, racism and drink driving is all because he's from a different culture and he's just misunderstood.
Have a word with yourself.
Simon, you are clearly whiter-than-white but I fear you do not understand other people or other cultures.
I will pick up on your snide remarks one by one:
a) wife beating - he hit his wife once. I do not condone it. But I know many people who have done it, and what usually happens is they get divorced. They also go to anger management courses and they get some therapy. What it does not mean is that he is much different to many other people in the country, including Inverness. Senegal on the other hand is a completely different country with a completely different religion and culture. Hitting your wife a couple of generations ago - as I stated above - was not something that was particuklarly frowned upon in our own country. Yet you expect the people of a third world developing country to stand alongside us with our values? I think you are a bit too full of yourself and you need to learn a bit about the world, and how we can bring them with us and they can learn from us, instead of demanding that they are already like us.
b) Racism - proof please. What I do know is that there is a lot of racism in Britain, and a hell of a lot in Scotland. I don't see that there has been anythign other than an allegation against Diouf. An allegation that you have not shown was proven. What gives you the right to label someone a racist when you do not know them and they have never been found to be racist?
c) Drink driving. That appears to be a problem with a very very large proportion of the population.
My guess Simon is that you claim you have never driven while over the limnit, you have never driven over the speed limit, you have never been in a brawl, you have never abused (verbally or physically) anyone in your life, you have never done anythign that is classed as an offence. If that is so, I applaud you on being so pure and vigilant.
I, on the other hand, come from a world of realism where I can understand that these things happen sometimes, and people should be punished for them, but that does not mean they are damned for the rest fo their lives.
You need to have a word with yourself. You don't appear to have a concept of the real world and how it deals with transgressions and trangressors in a considered manner.
Maybe you would like the birch for wayward kids and the death penalty to be reintroduced?
I will pick up on your snide remarks one by one:
a) wife beating - he hit his wife once. I do not condone it. But I know many people who have done it, and what usually happens is they get divorced. They also go to anger management courses and they get some therapy. What it does not mean is that he is much different to many other people in the country, including Inverness. Senegal on the other hand is a completely different country with a completely different religion and culture. Hitting your wife a couple of generations ago - as I stated above - was not something that was particuklarly frowned upon in our own country. Yet you expect the people of a third world developing country to stand alongside us with our values? I think you are a bit too full of yourself and you need to learn a bit about the world, and how we can bring them with us and they can learn from us, instead of demanding that they are already like us.
b) Racism - proof please. What I do know is that there is a lot of racism in Britain, and a hell of a lot in Scotland. I don't see that there has been anythign other than an allegation against Diouf. An allegation that you have not shown was proven. What gives you the right to label someone a racist when you do not know them and they have never been found to be racist?
c) Drink driving. That appears to be a problem with a very very large proportion of the population.
My guess Simon is that you claim you have never driven while over the limnit, you have never driven over the speed limit, you have never been in a brawl, you have never abused (verbally or physically) anyone in your life, you have never done anythign that is classed as an offence. If that is so, I applaud you on being so pure and vigilant.
I, on the other hand, come from a world of realism where I can understand that these things happen sometimes, and people should be punished for them, but that does not mean they are damned for the rest fo their lives.
You need to have a word with yourself. You don't appear to have a concept of the real world and how it deals with transgressions and trangressors in a considered manner.
Maybe you would like the birch for wayward kids and the death penalty to be reintroduced?