Walter Out

[SydneyTiger14]

But that’s my point, it’s done it’s gone regardless of time frame. Rosie failed, Tim’s failing…let it go

As the decision to sack Rosenior is having a direct impact on the current season it is still quite relevant to be brought up in discussions. It's also relevant when discussing the performance of Acun as an owner. Phil Brown being sacked after 12 months of poor results by Paul Duffen has no relevance to anything.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Anyone able to track Acun’s plane like back in the day? Heard some rumours he landed at Humberside earlier.

I occasionally take a peek.
For some reason his plane, assuming it is still TC-ACN , hasn't been showing for quite a while.
Looked at arrivals, and there doesn't seem to be anything like that today.

 

[Tony Angelino]

As the decision to sack Rosenior is having a direct impact on the current season it is still quite relevant to be brought up in discussions. It's also relevant when discussing the performance of Acun as an owner. Phil Brown being sacked after 12 months of poor results by Paul Duffen has no relevance to anything.

But Rosie would have still been in this position squad wise or would we still have had last seasons squad if Rosie had stayed?

 

[Blaknamberblood]

As the decision to sack Rosenior is having a direct impact on the current season it is still quite relevant to be brought up in discussions. It's also relevant when discussing the performance of Acun as an owner. Phil Brown being sacked after 12 months of poor results by Paul Duffen has no relevance to anything.

Tbf I think selling the mainstay of the squad from last season then the haphazard recruitment has had more of a damning effect on this season, although Tim hasn't shone, in fact just the opposite.

 

[Drew]

But Rosie would have still been in this position squad wise or would we still have had last seasons squad if Rosie had stayed?

Weve no idea what the squad would have looked like - but that’s also got nothing to do with the decision making behind sacking Rosenior.

It’s the sliding doors moment isn’t it. What would the club look like if Rosenior was still here? We’ve no idea. But at the same time - because we have no idea that doesn’t mean we can’t criticise the appointments and signings since.

All of that also has no impact on whether people think sacking Rosenior was the right decision at the time.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

But Rosie would have still been in this position squad wise or would we still have had last seasons squad if Rosie had stayed?

I don't think some of the players who left, like Tufan, would have left if Rosenior was still here. I'm also convinced we would have had more success signing players earlier in the summer with a stable off-field staff and a clear identity for incoming players to align with. So no I don't think we would have been in the same position squad wise. Look at the fact that someone like Conway opted for Boro over us, Thomas-Asante going to Cov (maybe more geographical in fairness), but in both cases they have had a manager in place for multiple season with a stable off-field set up.

 

[Tony Angelino]

Weve no idea what the squad would have looked like - but that’s also got nothing to do with the decision making behind sacking Rosenior.

It’s the sliding doors moment isn’t it. What would the club look like if Rosenior was still here? We’ve no idea. But at the same time - because we have no idea that doesn’t mean we can’t criticise the appointments and signings since.

All of that also has no impact on whether people think sacking Rosenior was the right decision at the time.

I think you’ve answered my point we have no way of knowing, Syd says it had a direct impact…but how?
It’s a different squad and like you say there’s no way of knowing.
You can criticse and your no more right or wrong than Iam when I say sacking Rosie was the right decison

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I think you’ve answered my point we have no way of knowing, Syd says it had a direct impact…but how?
It’s a different squad and like you say there’s no way of knowing.
You can criticse and your no more right or wrong than Iam when I say sacking Rosie was the right decison

You don't think sacking a manager who was nominated for manager of the season, who was taking the club in a very clear and tangible upward trajectory and who turned a lot of our signings into high value sales had a direct impact on how this season has gone?

 

[Tony Angelino]

I don't think some of the players who left, like Tufan, would have left if Rosenior was still here. I'm also convinced we would have had more success signing players earlier in the summer with a stable off-field staff and a clear identity for incoming players to align with. So no I don't think we would have been in the same position squad wise. Look at the fact that someone like Conway opted for Boro over us, Thomas-Asante going to Cov (maybe more geographical in fairness), but in both cases they have had a manager in place for multiple season with a stable off-field set up.

But Syd you “dont think” or you”convinced doesn’t make it fact, it’s just your opinion. So your no more right than Iam.
So it’s impossible to saying it’s impacting us at the minute

 

[Tony Angelino]

You don't think sacking a manager who was nominated for manager of the season, who was taking the club in a very clear and tangible upward trajectory and who turned a lot of our signings into high value sales had a direct impact on how this season has gone?

This season….no, they have all left. Even if Rosie’s still here them players have gone

 

[Drew]

This season….no, they have all left. Even if Rosie’s still here them players have gone

But some of those players might have still been here if he had stayed?

 

[tigerrev]

Ok fair enough- we are only 3 points from the bottom three.
But we sack him this morning, who do we get in? Do you feel Acun will have someone lined up?

No - but the players would probably be lifted just knowing Wally had gone. Let Andy Dawson pick the team for West Brom and then get someone in during the international break

 

[SydneyTiger14]

But Syd you “dont think” or you”convinced doesn’t make it fact, it’s just your opinion. So your no more right than Iam.
So it’s impossible to saying it’s impacting us at the minute

I cited two clear examples of players moving to clubs over joining us where the common denominator was a stable off-field set up where managers hadn't been sacked/moved on despite missing out on the play offs. I cited the player sales we made off the back of Rosenior's targeted signings (Delap and Carvalho also going for big fees after Rosenior being personally involved in bringing them to the club) I don't know how much more tangible evidence I can provide. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary?

 

[Cityzen]

But some of those players might have still been here if he had stayed?

Might. Might not have been. Which ones do you think might have stayed?

 

[Drew]

I think you’ve answered my point we have no way of knowing, Syd says it had a direct impact…but how?
It’s a different squad and like you say there’s no way of knowing.
You can criticse and your no more right or wrong than Iam when I say sacking Rosie was the right decison

Im not saying you are wrong - I’m just saying opinions on sacking Rosenior are neither proved or disproved by what’s happened this season, which is why saying ‘in hindsight it was wrong to sack him’ is flawed.

I would be saying the same if Walter had been a success because we have no way of knowing how Rosenior would have done this year. Basically - what you thought about the job Liam did should be based on how it went when he was here - not what has happened since (although that doesn’t help, granted).

 

[NewcastleTiger]

Im not saying you are wrong - I’m just saying opinions on sacking Rosenior are neither proved or disproved by what’s happened this season, which is why saying ‘in hindsight it was wrong to sack him’ is flawed.

I would be saying the same if Walter had been a success because we have no way of knowing how Rosenior would have done this year. Basically - what you thought about the job Liam did should be based on how it went when he was here - not what has happened since (although that doesn’t help, granted).

Walter being a success would’ve covered up what a mess we are at the top. We’ve completely replaced an entire squad in 2/3 of the summer windows so far, the most successful one was probably when we were cutting costs

 

[Benjo]

Couldn't see Rosenior getting us promoted if we couldn't manage top 6 with that squad. We dropped too many points we should have been winning.

Can't see Walter getting us promoted either, but with the churn we've had over the summer and how late it all came together, it's still too soon to judge in my opinion. How we didn't win last night is down to the players for me. How we weren't 3-0 up by half time at the weekend is down to the players for me too.

Our last three managers have all relied on defenders being able to play football like midfielders. The fact is most of them have been, and still are, our League 1 season retained list and they're unfortunately limited to their specific, traditional roles, which to be fair to them; theyre very good at. Seri masked some of these cracks, and obviously Greaves was an exception, but when you look at individuals in defence, they just aren't doing enough to initiate these attacking plays effectively.

Then midfield... Simons is our new Seri. Was it Fleetwood he played for last season? Didn't pull up too many trees there. Slater for all the effort, has this habit of playing passes that just aren't quite right and it hinders attacks too often. The Belloumi post shot last night came because he had to cut back because Slater's pass went behind him. That shot was a salvage job on what you could see was supposed to play him in behind.

Then there's the strikers... They're not Delap clearly, but one it's a bit of a catch 22 in one sense. You could argue they're fluffing their lines to some degree, but then they're not getting that many chances. That being said, I've lost count of how many times we've pulled it back to the penalty spot from the byline and there's been nobody there to finish it. It's all a but odd really.

It would help if we employed tactics that didn't require the defenders to do so much, but then do we really have the quality to put the creative pressure elsewhere?

 

[Tony Angelino]

But some of those players might have still been here if he had stayed?

And Walter might have worked

 

[originallambrettaman]

But Rosie would have still been in this position squad wise or would we still have had last seasons squad if Rosie had stayed?

With the need to replace half the squad in the summer, you'd at least want the stability of a known quantity with regard to playing style and the remaining players already knowing what their roles are. We've compounded the transfer issues by employing a new maverick management team, with no experience in English football, trying to play a way nobody seems to understand. The issues we now have, are entirely self-inflicted and not remotely surprising.

 

[SW3 Chelsea Tiger]

With the need to replace half the squad in the summer, you'd at least want the stability of a known quantity with regard to playing style and the remaining players already knowing what their roles are. We've compounded the transfer issues by employing a new maverick management team, with no experience in English football, trying to play a way nobody seems to understand. The issues we now have, are entirely self-inflicted and not remotely surprising.

well said