VAR
- Thread starter alwaysright
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That was a good day out, despite getting pumped
Btw I can't remember VAR being required for any decisions
It looks like the admission charge has to be agreed between the 2 clubs, but I don't think the FA have to agree the actual prices. The FA does stipulate minimum admission charges which increase as the competition progresses (for the 3rd round it's £15). The away Club’s spectators can only be charged more than the home Club’s spectators if mutually agreed by both Clubs.
From the 3rd round onwards the net gate money (after deduction of allowable expenses which are set out in the rules) is distributed as 10% to the Cup Pool and 45% to each of the clubs. I think as long as prices are not stupidly high (or low) compared to regular prices then there wouldn't be much objection from Cardiff or the FA - in this case it's easy to argue that as Cardiff are a PL club so the extra cost is justifiable.
If you REALLY want to know, the full rules are here
However I really don't understand the commercial or atmospheric logic of setting prices at the level he has, as we will only get 45% of the the increase, as will Cardiff (who let's face it, need the money so much more than we do
). He could argue that extra income will be needed to cover policing costs, but I reckon he'd be better off getting more people in, creating a better atmosphere and generating extra revenue from catering (which we keep 100%). The increase amounts to about 8%, and I reckon that if he'd kept prices at usual L1 level then the gate would be more than 8% higher than it's going to be, which means the possible income on this pricing structure will be less than it would be if he'd kept prices the same. Given Cardiff's situation, this game is not a lost cause, and a full Priestfield with the crowd in full voice will help the players as damn sight more than a few thousand disgruntled people who've turned up under sufferance. OK, there are unknowns and speculation in there, but we'll see how many Cardiff bring, and also the actual gate number (if we get it, and if we can believe it).
VAR is back big time. As Man Utd win late penalty to handball and knock out PSG.
I cannot see how it was a pen but listening to refs they agree it was. Looks like if it touches your arm it will be deemed a penalty.
I cannot see how it was a pen but listening to refs they agree it was. Looks like if it touches your arm it will be deemed a penalty.
Buffo0n
For his performance, I have awarded the PSG, goalkeeper 0 out of ten - and I believe that the appropriate place for that 0 is in his surname = Buffo0n. Why didn't he just parry the ball away from the goal for the Man Utd's second ?.......................
Mind you, he wasn't the only buffoon on the pitch - handball ? my arse ! ---- How can the referee deem the defender's action to be deliberate ? - The referee's decision was about as good as his Micky Mouse watch - playing into the 100th minute ( only 3 had been indicated by the 4th official ) - and the ' so-called- penalty ', came deep into that time -- probably realised he had made a fool of himself by giving the penalty - and was tying to give PSG time to score -- either way it's incompetence or cheating --- I hear he's been relegated and will be officiating at a L1 game on Saturday (( wait and see - if not him - his twin brother - they're all buffoons at Priestfield ! ))
For his performance, I have awarded the PSG, goalkeeper 0 out of ten - and I believe that the appropriate place for that 0 is in his surname = Buffo0n. Why didn't he just parry the ball away from the goal for the Man Utd's second ?.......................
Mind you, he wasn't the only buffoon on the pitch - handball ? my arse ! ---- How can the referee deem the defender's action to be deliberate ? - The referee's decision was about as good as his Micky Mouse watch - playing into the 100th minute ( only 3 had been indicated by the 4th official ) - and the ' so-called- penalty ', came deep into that time -- probably realised he had made a fool of himself by giving the penalty - and was tying to give PSG time to score -- either way it's incompetence or cheating --- I hear he's been relegated and will be officiating at a L1 game on Saturday (( wait and see - if not him - his twin brother - they're all buffoons at Priestfield ! ))
alwaysright, I think i've made my views very clear on the use of technology in football, some would say numerous times
However, the authorities, clubs, and supporters have readily accepted the use of it, so at times it's going to come back and bite those same clubs and supporters on the bum.
Do i think it was a penalty, 100% - and thanks to VAR it was clear, I would never have noticed it otherwise. The player knew the shot was coming in, watch his reaction, seconds before the strike, the player moves his body and arm out to block the ball, in my eyes he did it purposely, any part of his body he was going to use to stop it. I doubt the Man U player would have even scored, but the offending player didn't know that at the time, he made his choice and cost PSG the game.
I did put up a video above, it appears to have now been made unavailable, so watch this slightly humorous vid at 15 seconds, you only need to watch it until 22 seconds, his arm is clearly coming up, PENALTY!
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Here is a better vid, if it don't get taken down, watch from 1.26...
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brb
I too was looking at the face of the defender before the shot was taken. I could come to the same conclusion as you - but you have to accept that the defender should be watching the ball [at all times] - so- whilst I would expect the defender to try to block the shot, I wouldn't suggest that he was guilty of deliberately trying to get his arm in the way..... but I suppose it's all down to interpretation ----------
------ just like when I saw your original post ( with the blank video ), I thought that you was giving us the viewpoint from the referee ( blind ).
I too was looking at the face of the defender before the shot was taken. I could come to the same conclusion as you - but you have to accept that the defender should be watching the ball [at all times] - so- whilst I would expect the defender to try to block the shot, I wouldn't suggest that he was guilty of deliberately trying to get his arm in the way..... but I suppose it's all down to interpretation ----------
------ just like when I saw your original post ( with the blank video ), I thought that you was giving us the viewpoint from the referee ( blind ).
I expect whoever owns copyright to the video, is it BT Sport, are getting the unauthorised vids taken down.
I agree with the assessment that the defender knew what was coming and purposely moved his arms into a position where if the ball struck them he would be gaining an advantage = penalty.
As a hypothetical situation, I wonder if the ball had first struck his body and then bounced onto his arms, whether a penalty would have been given - look out for that scenario.
And as a final comment on that game, and the predictable outpouring of claims of unfairness from Neymar, I love the following post on the BBC web page
"The absolute last opinion on genuine, justified penalties I want is Neymar's.
Will, Pompey fan in Manchester"
As a hypothetical situation, I wonder if the ball had first struck his body and then bounced onto his arms, whether a penalty would have been given - look out for that scenario.
And as a final comment on that game, and the predictable outpouring of claims of unfairness from Neymar, I love the following post on the BBC web page
"The absolute last opinion on genuine, justified penalties I want is Neymar's.
Will, Pompey fan in Manchester"
There was another UCL match last night in Porto, in which Porto got a VAR penalty in the 27th minute of extra time after VAR picked up Roma defender Florenzi pulling back Porto's Fernando by the shirt in the penalty area.
On that occasion, as with Kimpembe's handball, the incidents were picked up by the VAR assessors and referred to the referee, who after viewing the replays MADE HIS OWN DECISION.
The success of VAR will depend on referees maintaining control over decisions that are made. Ultimately they are the ones who see the events in real time (or sometimes not..) but who are also aware of the emotions on the pitch.
On that occasion, as with Kimpembe's handball, the incidents were picked up by the VAR assessors and referred to the referee, who after viewing the replays MADE HIS OWN DECISION.
The success of VAR will depend on referees maintaining control over decisions that are made. Ultimately they are the ones who see the events in real time (or sometimes not..) but who are also aware of the emotions on the pitch.
I have made my position clear - I do not think that the action by the defender constituted a deliberate handball - and, as I understand it, 'mens rea' hasn't changed ( I studied Law !)
How can it be construed an offence if the ball ' accidentally' strikes the arm ?-- If a defender has to lower his body position when attempting a tackle, it would be natural to extend his arms - to give balance --- his arms are not going to be rigidly down his side..*****.........
...... oh - and I'm looking forward to attacking players deliberately kicking the ball towards the arms of defenders.
And ---- I'm looking forward to a goal fest of penalties - every time a corner is to be taken.
**** even if a person walks , (( unless he's a penguin )), arms tend to 'swing' a little - out of a 'silhouette' shape.
How can it be construed an offence if the ball ' accidentally' strikes the arm ?-- If a defender has to lower his body position when attempting a tackle, it would be natural to extend his arms - to give balance --- his arms are not going to be rigidly down his side..*****.........
...... oh - and I'm looking forward to attacking players deliberately kicking the ball towards the arms of defenders.
And ---- I'm looking forward to a goal fest of penalties - every time a corner is to be taken.
**** even if a person walks , (( unless he's a penguin )), arms tend to 'swing' a little - out of a 'silhouette' shape.
Yeah but his arms were swinging like a pendulum mate, if he had swung any more he would have turned into a grandfather clock that had just struck 12
I looked at all the bits to do with this last night as well to see if it allowed me to keep my opinion of VAR or force me to rethink. Several things. The first is that I don't much care for Man U. That is important because I could just simply think tough bollox get on with it had they not had the review. I could also think typical Man U who get a load of dodgy calls their way. However, having watched the video a few times I think you can clearly see the defender knows exactly what he's doing. He knows the shot is coming, if he didn't he wouldn't have jumped. You don't just jump in the air with your back to the ball if you aren't trying to block something. He thinks that because he isn't actually looking at the ball then it's ok and nobody can call that anything but ball to hand or arm in this case. If he was 2 feet away then maybe you could give the benefit but he isn't. That arm is a deliberate move on his part and makes me 100% certain that it was a penalty. It pains me to say that in this case VAR was correct and it would have been Man U who were seen off had it not been used. My opinion on VAR though remains the same. I don't like it and would prefer it not to be there. However if it is insisted it is used then you have to accept the consequences when these things happen. It's what it's for.
sensiblegeeny - I accept that the defender deliberately jumped up to block the shot...... but - I still do not accept that the position of the 'offending arm' was deliberate.....Have you tried to jump up - without using your arms for 'leverage'? -- Yes, the defender's arm extended [ a little - not like what brb said ], but, the action of the arm was nothing less than a natural motion - the arm moved away from the side of his body by the centrifugal force created by turning his body -- I am actually impressed that the arm didn't extend out further............
You do realise that any new interpretation of 'Handball', will now prevent any player from using his arms for leverage every time he jumps up to head the ball !
We've seen plenty of instances where a player gets an elbow in the face - by someone using their arms for leverage to gain height to head the ball. Is this now going to be considered deliberate every time ? If so, then players are going to need pogo* sticks to jump up for the ball -- it could make the game more fun to watch.
* do they make them any more ? - I asked for one for Christmas - but all I got was a hoop and stick.
This is how to jump without using your arms
You do realise that any new interpretation of 'Handball', will now prevent any player from using his arms for leverage every time he jumps up to head the ball !
We've seen plenty of instances where a player gets an elbow in the face - by someone using their arms for leverage to gain height to head the ball. Is this now going to be considered deliberate every time ? If so, then players are going to need pogo* sticks to jump up for the ball -- it could make the game more fun to watch.
* do they make them any more ? - I asked for one for Christmas - but all I got was a hoop and stick.
This is how to jump without using your arms
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What a load of genitals.
And what is the referee going to do when the ball hits the arms of a player in a 'wall', during a free kick --His hands might be strategically and 'innocently' placed to prevent ball hitting balls !
And what is the referee going to do when the ball hits the arms of a player in a 'wall', during a free kick --His hands might be strategically and 'innocently' placed to prevent ball hitting balls !
Always, I've watched the video quite a few times and the player is watching the ball until the last minute, he new exactly where to put his arm.
you even admit as much yourself, " I am actually impressed that the arm didn't extend out further."
you even admit as much yourself, " I am actually impressed that the arm didn't extend out further."