Up Till Now....

think about BLM's screaming chanting mobs pulling down statues desecrating memorials burning flags tearing things down they don't like,attacking people the taliban do that sort of thing. the cause of BLM please??? its not defeating this virus that has killed 40000 in the UK.

 

you are well well well short of keeping up with news …. the Taliban kill civilians regularly... they target military or government and there is always civilian "collateral damage" wise up!

 

In my opinion, history is what we are, which should not be forgotten or taken away..Good or bad...without it, none of us would be here. A plaque telling the truth would have been better than destroying it.
This was of course the work of, premeditated, organised extremists (as many young white involved) which IMO form part of our society, intent on causing unrest and creating media headlines for their own cause.
I also have a massive problem with BLM.....It .should be "ALL lives matter"....to me I find BLM racist..
NB....Had it not been for the disgraceful and despicable horrors of Hitler.....I wouldn't be around, my Dad was based in Italy during the war, where he met my Mother...We are the history, it should be left alone..

 

Thanks Rob. I share your hatred of prejudice and injustice. I just think we differ in our methods of combating it.
Sometimes violent confrontation is the only way to bring about change, but getting it wrong can soil ones cause. I fear that particularly here in the UK, some people may be getting it wrong.......

 

You have highlighted a problem within these protests. There have been a litany of violent and criminal acts in the UK and a flagrant disregard of the corona lockdown.

Helping raise awareness? Or also helping to build resentment? Or worse?

If BLM continue in the manner they have people will come out also to defend what they consider to be important .. It is already starting.

 

You misunderstand me. Red Alert compared BLM to the Taliban. I said BLM aren't killing civilians, and as such are not like the Taliban

And this brings me back to my point. If you're more angry at the symbolic loss of a lump of metal than you are at the systematic oppression of a group of people based on the colour of their skin, then maybe you're just not putting your energy in the right place? Maybe if this makes you resent black people more, then that says more about you than anything else? (I use 'you' as a figure for the public there by the way, not you personally).

I think on reflection I'll back down my stance a little. I can't condone the tearing down of the statue. I thought it was great at the time, and to some extent I still do, but if it got repeated across the country then it would be ridiculous and no doubt become more violent than it did. Aside from that though, I see no issue with what 99% of the protestors did. They were a force for good, mostly wearing masks (at least according to my friends who were there), and it's these sorts of people who make change in the world. So good on them. The symbolism of what happened that day will remain in memories for years.

And that's my 0.015p.

 

I am not angry.I am philosophical. I try to think critically.

What does BLMs disregard for the corona pandemic, 40000 deaths, society and law brewaking achieve? Raising awareness? Well we all know slavery is evil.

Do their actions sow resentment?

Yesterday in my workplace where I go through a rigorous anti infection routine to get and out and wear PPE for sometimes twelve hours a shift people were fuming with BLM's actions. One infected BLM protestor going into a care home was a crux. There is a lack of respect being displayed to wider society ... All lives matter.

Do their actions sow resentment? Yes.

The symbolism. Yes Bristol is full of pitchfork waving statue beaters. Better symbolism would have been after a democratic discourse the populace voted to house the statue elsewhere and use it to educate people on the City's abolitisionist past.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ved-george-floyd-death-police-funding-statues

Protesting works. If those in power refuse to do right, then it's all the people have left.

 

Protesting might work, if it's carried out in a proper and peaceful fashion.
The yobs that did the dirty work on Sunday are simply scum behaving like Sheep with a mob mentality.
They don't stand for BLM, they stand for maximising the opportunity they saw to behave in an anti social manner with the BLM as a cover all excuse.
As I said yesterday, the only surprise is that the events weren't following by looting.

I would be very interested to know how many of them are (or were maybe) gainfully employed, and how many of them have Bristol addresses, that's if any of them are ever brought to account of course, which I seriously doubt.
Also despicable that the Avon & Somerset Police stood back and watched it all happen by acting 'in peoples best interests' WTAF ?? Even their own federation are asking why they didn't do anything to try and prevent it. Afraid of upsetting a mob of kids ? Please ! They are obviously too busy chasing people who drive 2 miles to exercise their dogs, while mob rule and criminal damage happens in the centre of town and goes unchecked.

The idiot of a Mayor was also on top form saying how the statue won't be missed and what an affront it was. Shame that in his position and given his colour that he didn't have the intelligence to have stated proceedings for its removal beforehand then. Double standards, while he's too busy lining his own pockets and talking out of his arse.

 

The weekend thuggery, especially in London, has shone a light on the organisation B L M.
95% of the placard waving lot are decent but I'm worried they're being hoodwinked.
The consequence is a lot of the general public watching the scenes on TV will ignore the message and equality will be the loser.

 

What I don't get is why people are protesting in OUR country about something that happened in the United States, combined with events from 300 years ago.
All over the world there are people being killed, displaced or otherwise harmed because of their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. Black people have been oppressed and maltreated for centuries, but they don't have a monopoly on being victims:
White people are being attacked and often murdered in Zimbabwe and South Africa - there are no protests about that. White people, Jews, and Christians are being kidnapped, tortured and killed - often on camera in horrific videos - in the Middle East and parts of Asia - gay people are being executed in some African countries and in the Middle East they are killed by being thrown off tall buildings as punishment for their 'crimes', but no protests about that (although there ARE protests when military action is taken against groups that carry out these acts). Muslims are being oppressed in Israel, Russia and China - as well as in their own lands (more Muslims are killed by fellow Muslims than by any other ethnic group or foreign power). In some African countries young girls are being mutilated according to cultural tradition. In Saudi Arabia women aren't allowed to drive (that might have been relaxed recently - not sure). Look how the Nazis behaved towards Jews, Slavs, Romanies and other ethic groups in the 1940s. The Incas and the South American tribes were all but wiped out by the Spanish colonial invaders. The North American Indians live on reservations in their own land. The Japanese were utterly brutal to the Chinese in WW2, and then there are the Australian Aboriginal tribes who, like their North American counterparts, were displaced and now live like second class citizens in their own land. Look at the Ethinic Cleansing that the Serbs did in Bosnia as recently as the 1990s - and the simmering tensions that still exist between Catholics and Protestants across the Irish Sea.
There are loads more injustices that I haven't mentioned - and they are ALL tragedies, ALL wrong and ALL utterly pointless. Britain certainly played its historical part in these atrocities, but we are not the only bad guys here and we have cleaned up our act considerably since the colonial days.
Black lives ABSOLUTELY matter - but so do ALL lives - there only seem to protests about black people though...…

 

more to the point presenters like on the BBC LAST NIGHT stating categorically that COLSTON made his money from trading slaves … he did not, he came from a very successful family and stated a thriving business, a thriving business trading wine oil and goods from FRANCE SPAIN ITALY AND AFRICA …. HE joined the royal Africa company in 1680 This company had been set up by King Charles II and his brother the Duke of York (later King James II), oh well got to write them out of history now
his business thrived long after trading slaves [his slave trading / shipping lasted 12 years ]

 

we sometimes have to thank the past for what it means for us … an event [ history is a series of events ] can mean being here or not. My event was the WW11 and a Japanese kamikaze pilot.... however was it actually the war or the pilot?
Had slavery, as evil as it is never happened ….. then …..??????? I am only on this earth because my father was 500 miles from home … on 1 certain day [ and I am sure many many of my generation can claim the same … be they of any colour you wish to name ]
until recently last couple of generations it has pretty much ceased [slavery it still goes on ] ..but go back to the romans... the greeks [ on which we have pages and pages of history ] the feudal lords all had slaves … all part of the evolution of humanity, we learn by our mistakes, a phrase we all use and learn by [ and evolve by ]…. don't put your hand in the fire, as kids was a statement a lot put to the test ……

 

Because it's fashionable

Hear hear !
I have spent an awful lot of time in the USA over the past 20 years both on business and for holidays, and this situation has never changed in that period.
Successive presidents since the 1950's, including a black one have failed to address the issues sitting right on their doorstep, but the roots and causes run much deeper than is possible to fix, even in several generations. And from what I know and from what I've seen with my own eyes and the people I know as friends in America, there are plenty of blacks there who simply do not want to change the way they live. I hasten to add these visits haven't been to Florida or California or any other tourist destination, but in what I call real blue collar, lower-middle class America with no glitz and glamour.

The Japanese were also brutal towards the English, the Australians and the allied forces.

The English were brutal to everyone we encountered over the centuries and were responsible for the deaths of millions of north Americans, Indians, Chinese, Africans. But that's history, as long as lessons are learnt, eventually.

If history has shown us anything it's that the human race have been incredibly cruel to one another across all creeds and cultures.

The difference is that World Wars I and II eventually changed human behaviours to one another across the world to a large degree. OK we still get posturing from America, China, North Korea and civil wars/uprisings in Syria/Africa, Middle East etc and there are still plenty of countries with atrocious Human Rights abuses but we no longer control things, but things in our lifetime have been more settled here than more many generations before ours.

Gang warfare amongst blacks in this country, especially in London is a major major issue, and who knows how many young lives have been needlessly cut short by fatal stabbings because of stupid territorial squabbles and/or drugs.

If it's that important, then BLM UK would do better turning their attention to such matters and coming up with some ideas, rather than taking it out on a statue of someone who lived 200 years ago where they probably don't even know the story.

 

Spot on Angelic.

 

Again I will ask politely do BLM's actions sow resentment?

The psychology of BLM clearly is not one that is supportive of the NHS and Key workers like the rest of society. The psychology of BLM clearly is not one that feels beating a pandemic is their greater good.

 

The statue was not there to celebrate the fact he was a slave trader, but to celebrate the fact he donated loads to Bristol, it seems strange had he not been generous he would not now being targeted because there wouldn’t have been a statue to him at all. That’s before we even mention what he did was considered perfectly ok in his time. I’d rather we kept his statue somewhere where we could still acknowledge his generosity whilst recognising how we have moved on & now realising his means of earning money are now considered abhorrent.

 

I am a great believer IN LOOKING AT THE WIDER PICTURE and what is encumbent within it.
There are a number of issues, some disguised within the issue as something else in todays wider picture... humans are what we are but there is [ as angelic mentions ] deep rooted issues within the BLM which they as a collective must answer and find a way to put on the table an argument not fuelled by leftist criminality orientated gangs.
unlawful... negative … false news always get attention, but not to join it but be appalled by it. THE BBC news presenter Garmston, whom I liked [ before last night ] as he always came over as "fair" last night made a statement ..Edward Colston made his money from the slave trade ….. he likely did not make much from it … in almost 50 years of being a merchant less than 12 were "in the slave trade" ….
If you care to look at the central Africa continent it is still evolving … almost every central belt country has warring factions more people probably die in this area of the world of not reaching a natural age than on any single other continent … tribalism [ angelic points out gang warfare ] is a big concern …

if we went back to say pre 1600 and was able to prevent the birth of people in the following statement, what would the world be like now!!!!! no slave trade no diaries very little trade other than Spain France and Portugal sacking and killing indigenous south Americans ….
In 1680, Colston became a member of the Royal African Company, which had held the monopoly in England on trading along the west coast of Africa in gold, silver, ivory and slaves from 1662.[5] Colston was deputy governor of the company from 1689 to 1690. His association with the company ended in 1692.[2] This company had been set up by King Charles II and his brother the Duke of York (later King James II), who was the governor of the company, together with City of London merchants, [ all of them alive from 1640 1699 ] and it had many notable investors, including philosopher and physician John Locke (who later changed his stance on the slave trade) and the diarist Samuel Pepys.[6][7]

 

the most powerful man in the world had 8 years to do something …


he either ….shouldnt...couldn't... wouldn't
the major root of this problem [integration ] is the good old USA … their main problem is crime …. and their police forces are of a greater nationality/cultural mix than anywhere else in the world. the vast majority of different back grounds live peacefully, but I think the majority JUST LIKE TO ACCEPT what happens around them .. crime wise … I think GF was a massive travesty of justice .. one obviously racially poisoned person took an opportunity that has ignited a fuse that never should never had been lit …. the other 3 almost as guilty, THEY SHOULD HAVE INTERVENED....
It is like Solomon, WHAT IS THE MAGIC QUESTION / ANSWER? …… certainly not lets go protest and wreck everything in sight / attack the law keepers / plunder the innocent or destroy and burn the possession or property of those have worked to make the place a better place to live in ….