Great argument/ So I posted some actual factual stuff I researched about the school, and made assumptions. Took an hour or two some time back AFC goes onto the internet and looks for the first link that "explains" the internet but actually doesn't prove anything, more assumptions. So it ends with the only tangible thing as I said, the court case against the school board over FOI requests for information of school operations post 2007 being denied to wolfgang halbig, so he is suing for that info. That's where I stopped being any way sincere Then you come in, with this list of things, you know nothing about the sandyhook official story or any background info, you came on here with an idea in your head and a stupid post that followed. Yet you think you are making me look stupid The confirmation that your post is an idiotic post will be proven by Terrifictroare latching on to it as he has yet to make a case in any debate about any subject so far on these boards/. So it's funny that you have not actually challenged anything I posted, just came on with your snidey bitch post, cos you know, you are one of those coward types. 10 a penny pal, you are the sort that likes to shout from a crowd cos you are too cowardly to stand on yer own #pathetic #transparent
No, another false argument, why cant you people actually debate using what was said instead of paraphrasing to suit your own argument he said he can guarantee that people who are mentally ill and determined to take people down with them will not find other means if they cant get guns. That is an accurate paraphrase That's what he said and it's bollocks. In case you didn't figure it out for yourself, less guns mean less people dying from guns, it doesn't mean less murders or less crime, its a fact poverty drives crime more than guns ever will lad. "And when he suggests it's also a cultural problem I'd imagine he means the paranoia of the country" First of all how do you know that and secondly if you believe that then you are as silly as he is. America is not "paranoid", do you even realise how diverse the US is in culture, it was absolutely ******ed to say "culture" and even worse to term America is "paranoid" as if america describes all people in America. There is no simple answer to the problems, and anyone who thinks they can sum it all up in one paragraph is a ****** The fool shot down my relevant question on this problem with a bullshit answer. Because he wants to get all libtard ragey about guns
It does mean less murders. Few people have the ability to murder more than a couple of people without a gun. With a gun most people can easily kill upwards of 10 people. They also offer a quick suicide way out afterwards, which makes the whole idea of a rampage more attractive because you won't have to face any pain or consequences yourself afterwards.
From reading his post it seems to me he is saying what I've said above rather than your interpretation of his post but I suppose only he can confirm what his intentions were! As for less guns meaning less deaths from guns but not less murders, I'd have to disagree. It would seem logical to me that guns are a weapon that are easier to kill intentionally and accidentally with than say a knife or a baseball bat. So with less people using guns, even if the same amount of attacks happen, it's a pretty safe assumption that there will be less deaths if less guns are used. Of course I'd need to go and find stats to back that up but surely natural human progression towards guns and bigger guns for combat would suggest they are more efficient killing tools. There are a large number of people who do not support gun reform in the US which is why laws don't get passed. The buLk of reasoning behind this is to do with protecting themselves against other Americans, terrorists, there own government etc... To me, that is a paranoid mind set. Of course I can't label all Americans as the same, that'd be silly, but it would appear to be quite a widespread position in the US given there isn't much movement on gun law reform.
Then why hasn't Canada also seen this problem, I also know that not so far back the legal age to get a gun here was 14. in fact no other place on earth has experienced this phenonemon at any time like what is going on in the US this past few years. I do get your point though, but only as far as legal guns goes mate. Illegal guns are a different matter. if an individual is determined to get a firearm he will get one Guess you haven't heard of bombs then Astro, easier to make than obtaining an illegal firearm too, thouhgh in the US probably as easy to get a gun for most. Poison substances Using a vehicle as a weapon on a crowded street may kill more than you'd manage with your gun The guns are just the method, the violent rampage the symptom. I do wonder if all these nuts are taking certain meds, cos people looking to die and take everyone with them, is so rare, yet recently they are coming out of the woodwork in the US
Sisu, For Sandyhook to be a made up conspiracy type incident hundreds of people, including children, would have to be involved, yet none of them have ever come forward and said anything. The conspiracy argument just does not hold water. Before you come back with your usual argument about the masses being brainwashed, etc. I may not believe in the conspiracy theories that abound on the internet, but I do believe that certain events are either covered up or manipulated by governments to suit their own ends., Kelly's death for instance.That is completely different to suggesting things like school massacres, or beheadings by ISIS, etc are fake.
@astroturfnaut Re your point about not being able to get guns for your plan to take down loads of people, if you cannot get a gun, do you think they will stop and say "ah **** it I'm not bothered"? No they look for another means of causing mass damage. because the problem of insane murderous people is not being addressed, if they cannot get guns they will still be mad, and if so willing to die, using a bomb would serve just as well. This is what will happen if the problem is not addressed. Regulating guns, which I actually agree with totally, will not stop people becoming basket case killers, I guess everyone can feel smug if guns are banned and a psycho only manages to kill 6 people instead of 10, job done eh..
Not job done but for those extra 4 people who didn't end up getting killed it is literally the biggest difference to there lives possible. The single biggest thing they'd have to be grateful for. Sorting out the gun laws would be a big step in the right direction. No-one is suggesting that will solve all of the US problems in regards to violence or mental health issues but it'd be a good first step
Well it would be a good start at least the families of 4 people would be very grateful. I agree with you that stricter gun control will not stop crazies losing it, but denying them easy access to firepower will help. Just as changing the formula for fertilizers stopped terrorists making large powerful fertilizer bombs.
Out of 15000 murders in the US in 2013 11000 of them were firearm homocides I agree on points about lower gun deaths from homocide. Can't argue with that. Though I don't know how many of those were legal vs illegal firearms, that is an important factor too. It doesn't solve the insane killer problem is all I am saying.
When guns are illegal the cost of firearms increases and getting them, keeping them, transporting them and maintaining them all become more difficult. You might as well deregulate access to high explosives and sell them in supermarkets if you really think that would have no effect on their use in crimes.
I thought I'd answer this stupid post after all and give you some actual history on some fo them garlic you funny funny man. 1. WW1 - yes 2.WW2 - yes though you don't know why it started do you? 3.The holocaust - The holocaust is a Jewish thing, the massacre of their people, the Krauts massacred many groups not one specific, mentally ill gypsies, communists, slavs and any political opponents or victims of circumstance as well as Jews. 4.My Lai massacre - One happened every month but were not reported, the claim this happened once is a tragic joke (#Bodycounts) 5.Kennedy shooting - Mafia and CIA, 8 snipers and 15 or 16 shots, and the kill shot came from the storm drain yards in front of his car. There is still a white mark on the pavement to this day that was used for the driver to know where to momentarily stall the car for the shooter to get his shot. 6. Moon landings - probably, I was not there 7.Prince Philip and the Queen murdered several native Canadian Indians whilst on a royal visit to Canada (one you put on this forum some time ago) It is claimed is all I know, kind of odd for people to make that **** up in Canada of all places, btw they claimed the kids were taken and never seena gain, not "murdered" 8. Father Xmas - Joulupukki certainly exists he lives up north from where I am now 9. The Easter Bunny - no but I believe in the bunny chick from Roger Rabbit 10. Ghosts - The movie or people in blankets? 11. LFC winning the Champions League after being 3 -0 down at half time in the final. Yes but it was not Rafa's team
Mate for explosives to kill aroud 10 to 20 people takes a small fertilizer bomb in a train or a shopping mall. heck you can do it in a crowded lift for ****s sake. To think that these people would be determined enough to kill others then themselves would be stalled by lack of legal access to a gun is ludicrous. The UK and Ireland guns are illegal and those that want them can get them handily enough. What is not readily available in the UK and Ireland is ****ing psychos who are looking to kill themselves and as many other people as possible. Simply put, making guns illegal does not stop determined killers. I agree 100% that the ban would stop a ****load more homocides though, cant argue with that the numbers pretty much show that, but not illegal firearms, they will still be killing people long after the bans are in place.
Surely you can see the argument for no access to legal guns stalling that killer? If there is a gun in the house or you can just order one to your house, there is literally no barrier to getting armed ready for your rampage. If they are illegal they are going to cost more to get and be more difficult to obtain. The nutter needs to know someone he can get a gun from illegally, has to be able to afford the increased pricing and has to be willing to deal with said gun dealer and do it without being caught by the police. In cases like Sandyhook the killer was so socially awkward he couldn't speak to people and would stand at the side of the corridor in school and hiss at kids who came near him. I can't imagine him having the social skills to arrange an underworld gun purchase. Making it as difficult as possible for these unstable people to get access to guns can only be a good thing and I can see ways in which future massacres don't happen, or aren't as horrific/effective by guns being illegal.
So you have mentioned me in a couple of threads today but you claim I am the obsessed one Anyway as always if you can provide some evidence of your claims about proving me wrong etc then great, if not then people will see them for what they are, ie just more wild concocted scenarios that exist only in your head.
To commit any action you need both motive and means. Whatever causes the murderous mind-set in so many people in the U.S. is open for debate, but is a very different argument to the effect of the availability of arms in providing the means. Fewer guns might not reduce the instances of attempted murder, but they will certainly reduce the efficacy of those attempts. To argue to the contrary is just plain foolishness, I'm afraid, and plays into the hands of the gun lobby in the States who just don't want their toys taken away from them, no matter how many innocent lives it costs. Also, uncritical acceptance of the conspiracy theories that make out it's all a big plot by "The Man" to keep the rest of us under control is both irresponsible and offensive to the families of the victims of such crimes.
Northern Arizona University shooting leaves one dead and three injured ‘Our hearts are heavy’ school president says as 18-year-old student taken into custody after confrontation early Friday morning that escalated into shooting. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...eaves-one-dead-and-three-injured?CMP=ema_565a
