Off Topic UK / EU Future

[wear_yellow]

Quite honestly I don't know what you're talking about KC. Ex pats were not considered as an important element by the Brexiteers - maybe just as collateral damage. The result of their actions could have been (and still can be) that our status within the EU. was reduced to that of a third country (ie. like Mali). In short, we were having citizenship rights forcibly taken away without being asked. As far as I know not one Brexiter has actually admitted that it may constitute a democratic deficit that we were not asked, yet were very much affected by the result. Do you deny that the UK was the sick man of Europe before joining, and that most of it's growth since has been as a result of EU membership ? Do you deny that Cornwall gets so much in terms of EU funding ? Or maybe you want to maintain that the poverty of the region is due to the EU ? Throughout my lifetime I have seen one scapegoat after the other used in England - now the EU is at fault for everything which goes wrong. In the past it was the Unions, the Pakistanis, the Lefties, Scotland, dole scroungers, now it's the EU (always someone else). The only good thing about Brexit is that it might leave the English without any possible scapegoats left.

Rather anti-English racist comments, I hope the admin on here will be taking appropriate action. Damn, I had forgotten....

 

[kchorn]

......................... Ex pats were not considered as an important element by the Brexiteers - maybe just as collateral damage.

cologne

• I can think of about 5000 minority groups who were not considered as an important element by the Brexiteers.
• I can think of about 5000 minority groups who were not considered as an important element by the Remainers.

So what?

I as you know live in Spain. I considered expats. I concluded the impact on them was largely minimal. But I also concluded the future of 60+ million people was more important. I based my decision on the latter.

The difference between you and me Cologne is twofold.

• I do not expect my country to give pain to others just so I can live well. I can stand on my own feet. Or are you suggesting that you living in Germany for 30 years has greatly added to the UK economy?
• I voted for my country, that has given me so much, and not based on selfish gain.

You can have a different view but as a 30 year exile please do not suggest that you have any special righs.

 

[colognehornet]

Dont waste your time, the Clique will all start on you - it's how it works on here.

Goo

Rather anti-English racist comments, I hope the admin on here will be taking appropriate action. Damn, I had forgotten....

Can you specify what you mean by anti-English racist comments ? I see that your normal content free contributions haven't changed.

 

[wear_yellow]

Goo

Can you specify what you mean by anti-English racist comments ? I see that your normal content free contributions haven't changed.

Let me help you..."my lifetime I have seen one scapegoat after the other used in England - now the EU is at fault for everything which goes wrong. In the past it was the Unions, the Pakistanis, the Lefties, Scotland, dole scroungers, now it's the EU (always someone else). The only good thing about Brexit is that it might leave the English without any possible scapegoats left." It clearly depicts the English as a bunch of Xenophobes and clearly discriminates against the English.
There is no point in posting on here as it just results in a load of abuse from the great and the good - but OK, I will challenge you. When you state..."have you forgotten that Cornwall practically lives from EU funding ?" Please provide the details of this EU funding that the people of Cornwall have to live on..I'm sure you will have the detail to hand of the EU funding for rents, gas & electricity and food that the people live on. Lookimg forward to the details that back up your statement of facts.

 

[colognehornet]

cologne

• I can think of about 5000 minority groups who were not considered as an important element by the Brexiteers.
• I can think of about 5000 minority groups who were not considered as an important element by the Remainers.

So what?

I as you know live in Spain. I considered expats. I concluded the impact on them was largely minimal. But I also concluded the future of 60+ million people was more important. I based my decision on the latter.

The difference between you and me Cologne is twofold.

• I do not expect my country to give pain to others just so I can live well. I can stand on my own feet. Or are you suggesting that you living in Germany for 30 years has greatly added to the UK economy?
• I voted for my country, that has given me so much, and not based on selfish gain.

You can have a different view but as a 30 year exile please do not suggest that you have any special righs.

Just what 'pain' are you referring to here ? Can you tell me just a few of the people in the UK who have 'suffered' as a direct result of the EU ? Or just one law which was initiated in Brussels against Britain's will which has inconvenienced you in any way - or any other Briton ? We are, of course, not at the end of a process here but (possibly) at the beginning of one - namely Britain turning itself into a bargain basement economy to make it attractive to investors from the rest of the World - environmental and worker protection laws will fall by the wayside. Look at the leading Brexiters - all neo liberalists who want to complete what Thatcher started. Do you think that Britain will have any sovereignty after it goes cap in hand to the rest of the World looking for TTIP style arrangements with everybody ? In our globalized World the law makers are the USA, China and the EU. break off from them and you become either a law taker, unless you go the way of Iran or North Korea.

 

[kchorn]

Just what 'pain' are you referring to here ? Can you tell me just a few of the people in the UK who have 'suffered' as a direct result of the EU ? Or just one law which was initiated in Brussels against Britain's will which has inconvenienced you in any way - or any other Briton ? We are, of course, not at the end of a process here but (possibly) at the beginning of one - namely Britain turning itself into a bargain basement economy to make it attractive to investors from the rest of the World - environmental and worker protection laws will fall by the wayside. Look at the leading Brexiters - all neo liberalists who want to complete what Thatcher started. Do you think that Britain will have any sovereignty after it goes cap in hand to the rest of the World looking for TTIP style arrangements with everybody ? In our globalized World the law makers are the USA, China and the EU. break off from them and you become either a law taker, unless you go the way of Iran or North Korea.

Here you seem to be on a different page to me Cologne. I'm looking towards the future, either:

a) outside EU
b) inside EU

Your latter comments assume the world will be driven by great global powers and resistance is useless. Yet strangely there are many examples of small entities doing very well. I will say here that I do not rate success on economics alone.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

Interesting that there is such a split in this subject. I think and trying to be conciliatory.. That so much of this is subjective. There fore neither side, and there are more than two [emoji6], is All right or all wrong..

I notice a potential descent into personalising again and suggest that this gets no where...

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

 

[Toby]

Rather anti-English racist comments, I hope the admin on here will be taking appropriate action. Damn, I had forgotten....

Usual sniping and snide comments. Why don't you just go to another forum if you have nothing to contribute to the debate.

 

[Toby]

Dont waste your time, the Clique will all start on you - it's how it works on here.

I've not insulted kc but he's called me a crying loser. I've been polite and refuted every point he's made.

What has your contribution been?

 

[superhorns]

Assuming Comrade Corbyn loses again tonight he should be ok as he is so well practiced at being a loser.

3 elections
His own vote of confidence which he lost to a landslide.
Can we safely add tonight to this illustrious losing list?

 

[Deleted.......]

Interesting that there is such a split in this subject. I think and trying to be conciliatory.. That so much of this is subjective. There fore neither side, and there are more than two [emoji6], is All right or all wrong..

I notice a potential descent into personalising again and suggest that this gets no where...

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

Spot on - this is one of the few political issues where there really isn't any middle ground for the overwhelming majority. It's so damn divisive.

 

[wear_yellow]

Assuming Comrade Corbyn loses again tonight he should be ok as he is so well practiced at being a loser.

3 elections
His own vote of confidence which he lost to a landslide.
Can we safely add tonight to this illustrious losing list?

Yeah, safe assumption. He can add it to his long list of many failures - well he does say he is for the many!

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Spot on - this is one of the few political issues where there really isn't any middle ground for the overwhelming majority. It's so damn divisive.

Agreed it is totally divisive, however I suspect from what I hear that there are a large number of people who really don't know or care very much. 58% of people asked what the back stop was all about, replied that they had never heard of it. Those of us who comment here do not fall into that group, and are as informed as we can be. However I do feel that we can be taken for mugs from time to time. Remember back to last night when the government had such a pounding, not only from the opposition, but from it's own benches. The first person who suggested that there should be a vote of no confidence was not Corbyn, but May. Of course Corbyn took it up, but he had backed himself into a corner that he couldn't get out of. After her mauling this effectively gave her an extra day to think what she should do next. She carried on as if there had been little more than a minor slip in her calculations, whereas everyone knew she would lose, but not by such a historic way.

Today we have seen the waste of another day. The PM carried on as if she hadn't lost the vote the night before, even to the point of reading out a copy and paste of her closing remarks from the day before. Taking the two days together as I think you must, the country is moving nearer to either extending article 50, which could actually mean having to elect MEPs, or cancelling the whole mess. The government will have won tonight, but they lost the debate yesterday in a big way.

 

[superhorns]

Agreed it is totally divisive, however I suspect from what I hear that there are a large number of people who really don't know or care very much. 58% of people asked what the back stop was all about, replied that they had never heard of it. Those of us who comment here do not fall into that group, and are as informed as we can be. However I do feel that we can be taken for mugs from time to time. Remember back to last night when the government had such a pounding, not only from the opposition, but from it's own benches. The first person who suggested that there should be a vote of no confidence was not Corbyn, but May. Of course Corbyn took it up, but he had backed himself into a corner that he couldn't get out of. After her mauling this effectively gave her an extra day to think what she should do next. She carried on as if there had been little more than a minor slip in her calculations, whereas everyone knew she would lose, but not by such a historic way.

Today we have seen the waste of another day. The PM carried on as if she hadn't lost the vote the night before, even to the point of reading out a copy and paste of her closing remarks from the day before. Taking the two days together as I think you must, the country is moving nearer to either extending article 50, which could actually mean having to elect MEPs, or cancelling the whole mess. The government will have won tonight, but they lost the debate yesterday in a big way.

I would like to know where you have obtained information that the present government would be willing to call off Brexit. This is just another of your flippant predictions which will be quietly and hastily forgotten.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I would like to know where you have obtained information that the present government would be willing to call off Brexit. This is just another of your flippant predictions which will be quietly and hastily forgotten.

I have been listening to what people are saying SH, not just taking the headlines that you rely on. Moggy has just been skewered on TV, and the PM has now backed down about speaking to the leaders. The vote last night changed the scene, but maybe you haven't realised it yet.

 

[superhorns]

I have been listening to what people are saying SH, not just taking the headlines that you rely on. Moggy has just been skewered on TV, and the PM has now backed down about speaking to the leaders. The vote last night changed the scene, but maybe you haven't realised it yet.

Rees Mogg did extremely well in his interview with Andrew Neil, the broadcast must have been scrambled on its way to the French backwaters. He confidently confirmed his continued support for the Tories.

Stupid Corbyn has put on a pre condition on potential talks with the PM, which will scupper any talks. He has clearly shown a total lack of statesmanship.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Rees Mogg did extremely well in his interview with Andrew Neil, the broadcast must have been scrambled on its way to the French backwaters. He confidently confirmed his continued support for the Tories.

Stupid Corbyn has put on a pre condition on potential talks with the PM, which will scupper any talks. He has clearly shown a total lack of statesmanship.

You think that Moggy did well? He admitted he couldn't answer straight forward questions. He looked a fool to be honest.

Still we have seen that the extension of Article 50 is becoming almost the norm now, although that is not in the gift of the government. May knows that the game is up, but cannot bring herself to admit it. I highlighted the last days of Thatcher recently, and the comparison is becoming more and more similar. A PM who is not admitting that she has got her policies wrong, but cannot be honest with the population and admit it.

 

[Deleted.......]

You think that Moggy did well? He admitted he couldn't answer straight forward questions. He looked a fool to be honest.

Still we have seen that the extension of Article 50 is becoming almost the norm now, although that is not in the gift of the government. May knows that the game is up, but cannot bring herself to admit it. I highlighted the last days of Thatcher recently, and the comparison is becoming more and more similar. A PM who is not admitting that she has got her policies wrong, but cannot be honest with the population and admit it.

Back to the divide though OFH. Anything she says will anger virtually half the country - and get a lukewarm semi approval from the other half.

 

[superhorns]

You think that Moggy did well? He admitted he couldn't answer straight forward questions. He looked a fool to be honest.

Still we have seen that the extension of Article 50 is becoming almost the norm now, although that is not in the gift of the government. May knows that the game is up, but cannot bring herself to admit it. I highlighted the last days of Thatcher recently, and the comparison is becoming more and more similar. A PM who is not admitting that she has got her policies wrong, but cannot be honest with the population and admit it.

You are so wrong on the Rees Mogg interview, Neil was very subdued and lacked his normal bullish confidence. RM correctly answered he could not comment on unknown unknowns. I can now see why your predictions keep failing.

There is no comparison to Thatcher's last days, I have not seen any reports of serious pressure for her to resign, although she should have made way for a proper Brexiteer. You wrote May off 18 months ago, she has proved to have more stamina, guts and resolve compared to the weasel Macron who has collapsed under pressure from the rioting mobs.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Just to be balanced, I do think that Corbyn has also shown himself to be in as big a mess as the PM. He must move his position now, or be as much as a lame duck as Micheal Foot was. The days of trying to play two strings at the same time has not worked. His fingers are in the wrong place and the only sound is discordant. Apologies to non musicians.