Off Topic UK / EU Future

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Tobes said:
The bottom line is, that they voted for an ideology, they were sold the idea that Britain didn’t need Johnny Foreigner and could strike out on its own, rule Britannia. All of it, emotive, belief based, factless bullshit.
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Agree with your entire post. Still they say you cannot fool all the people all the time but it seems you can fool 52% of those who vote all the time.
 
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Leo said:
Agree with your entire post. Still they say you cannot fool all the people all the time but it seems you can fool 52% of those who vote all the time.
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What annoys me now, is that there’s a completely false narrative being touted around what they ALL supposedly voted for. The reality is they voted for different reasons, and the hard line Brexiteers simply cannot make the claim that they have a mandate to take this country into a cliff edge Brexit, based on a 1.4m majority in an In / Out referendum over 2 years ago. They didn’t have one back then and they most certainly haven’t got one now.

34% of those who voted Leave admit, note ADMIT, to being racially prejudiced. Let’s not kid ourselves on, Leave won due to people wanting to stop immigrants coming in. That doesn’t mean ALL Leave voters had that as a priority, but a sizeable percentage patently did. Yet we’ve been told repeatedly to respect the decision, what, respect a decision that was ultimately delivered by xenophobia, fear and gold old fashioned racism? I can accept the result, it is what it is, but respect it? Not a ****ing chance.
 
Going back to the original aims of the thread. What kind of Britain do you want to see after Brexit ? I can dispense with all the political theories, or the economics and narrow it down to one thing. I want Britain to maintain it's welcoming culture. I have dual nationality but my wife doesn't (only German) - I do not want us standing in two separate queues when entering Britain. If she is required to have an entry stamp on a passport (which she doesn't have, only an ID card) then I, also, will use my German ID. card when entering. It is alarming how many EU. workers are vearing away from the UK. at present - if this transfers itself to tourists then we (and particularly London) are in deep trouble. If my wife has to have a visa to visit Britain then we will simply spend long weekends in Paris or Amsterdam instead - and how many other millions are in our position ?
 
Tobes said:
What annoys me now, is that there’s a completely false narrative being touted around what they ALL supposedly voted for. The reality is they voted for different reasons, and the hard line Brexiteers simply cannot make the claim that they have a mandate to take this country into a cliff edge Brexit, based on a 1.4m majority in an In / Out referendum over 2 years ago. They didn’t have one back then and they most certainly haven’t got one now.

34% of those who voted Leave admit, note ADMIT, to being racially prejudiced. Let’s not kid ourselves on, Leave won due to people wanting to stop immigrants coming in. That doesn’t mean ALL Leave voters had that as a priority, but a sizeable percentage patently did. Yet we’ve been told repeatedly to respect the decision, what, respect a decision that was ultimately delivered by xenophobia, fear and gold old fashioned racism? I can accept the result, it is what it is, but respect it? Not a ****ing chance.
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Again I entirely agree with all you say. Another thing that I find amusing is the brexit touted "will of the people". 17.4 represents 26% of the UK population so don't give me that nonsense. It is not will of the people but will of the foreign newspaper barons.
 
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It would be far too easy to write about what is going on in government, but a couple of points. May finally gets down off the fence, and all the divisions come straight out into the open. Yesterday Gove was on TV saying that he didn't like all of the proposals from Chequers, but he was a realist. If he is, then Davis is not.
The proposals are unlikely to be acceptable to The EU in my opinion, but I suspect that that fact was known, and they were designed to be another intermediate point in the discussions.
Lots of noise and fury from the Brexiteers, but they should remember they are a small minority within the PCP. It could be an interesting day though.
 
An overview/short history of Britain's relationship with the EU:
UK: We want a rebate on the fees.
EU: OK.
UK: We don't want to be in the Euro.
EU. OK
UK: We don't want to be in Schengen.
EU: OK.
UK: We want a restriction on benefits until people have worked here for some time.
EU: OK
UK: We want to stop child benefits being paid for children who aren't in the UK.
EU: OK
UK: We want to kick people out who come here but don't work and can't afford to support themselves.
EU: That's fine, you already can.
UK: We want to be able to deny entry to known criminals.
EU: You already can (again)
UK: We want loads of preferential treatment that other countries don't get.
EU: Err, can't really give that without everyone agreeing.
UK: Don't give us what we want and we'll leave.
EU: That's a bit of an over reaction but your choice.
UK: Ok. we're leaving
EU: Bye then.
UK: Now we're leaving, we want all the things we had before.
EU: Err no, it doesn't work like that.
UK: Don't give us what we want and we'll leave with nothing.
EU: (Scratches head) Ok, umm, well, yeah.
UK: We're serious, we'll walk away with nothing to teach you a lesson.
EU: Bye (Again)
 
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colognehornet said:
An overview/short history of Britain's relationship with the EU:
UK: We want a rebate on the fees.
EU: OK.
UK: We don't want to be in the Euro.
EU. OK
UK: We don't want to be in Schengen.
EU: OK.
UK: We want a restriction on benefits until people have worked here for some time.
EU: OK
UK: We want to stop child benefits being paid for children who aren't in the UK.
EU: OK
UK: We want to kick people out who come here but don't work and can't afford to support themselves.
EU: That's fine, you already can.
UK: We want to be able to deny entry to known criminals.
EU: You already can (again)
UK: We want loads of preferential treatment that other countries don't get.
EU: Err, can't really give that without everyone agreeing.
UK: Don't give us what we want and we'll leave.
EU: That's a bit of an over reaction but your choice.
UK: Ok. we're leaving
EU: Bye then.
UK: Now we're leaving, we want all the things we had before.
EU: Err no, it doesn't work like that.
UK: Don't give us what we want and we'll leave with nothing.
EU: (Scratches head) Ok, umm, well, yeah.
UK: We're serious, we'll walk away with nothing to teach you a lesson.
EU: Bye (Again)
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T'was ever thus.
 
It seems rather unusual for the government to hold a briefing for all opposition MPs this afternoon. I am sure that there are plenty of exchanges between front benches, but I don't remember anything quite like this. Mogg has immediately said that the government doesn't have the numbers to get the latest proposals supported by his own party, so is looking for support from the opposition. While he regards the proposals as far too soft, many from the opposition regard them as far too hard. So just where this is going becomes more and more obscure by the hour.
 
8.57 am today I suggested that this could be an interesting day. So it has turned out with the PM getting more stick from the MPs behind her that those on the opposition benches. Tonight I read that Farage is thinking about returning to try and breathe some life into UKIP. He will wait until his present job in the EU comes to an end however. Hunt is taking over as Foreign Secretary. Maybe the NHS will be safer with his desire to see it privatised removed.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
8.57 am today I suggested that this could be an interesting day. So it has turned out with the PM getting more stick from the MPs behind her that those on the opposition benches. Tonight I read that Farage is thinking about returning to try and breathe some life into UKIP. He will wait until his present job in the EU comes to an end however. Hunt is taking over as Foreign Secretary. Maybe the NHS will be safer with his desire to see it privatised removed.
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Coco the Clown replaced by Bertie Wooster. Given the alternatives across the house are hardly world beaters I could weep. The only plus side is if they vote for St Jacob as leader they'll lose the DUP. Are they that stupid? Potentially...
 
Thought for the day.

The hardline cliff edge seeking Tories like Rees Mogg, would have the populous believe that a ‘no deal’ WTO Brexit , is the ideal scenario. As dealing with the largest trading bloc on the planet, which consists of 27 of our closest markets, with whom we currently have frictionless and tariff free trade, on WTO terms and all of the issues in terms or processing and supply chain issues that brings with it...is no problem, it’s fine, we can do that, it’s a winner.

Only, the exact same advocates are claiming that our current arrangement of dealing with far flung markets on those exact same WTO rules is somehow completely hamstringing U.K. trade and we need to shed the shackles of the EU in order to agree free trade deals with those markets.

Why has the complete nonsense of that contradictory argument not been challenged and exposed for what it is?

Discuss.
 
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