Off Topic UK / EU Future

The current government will have no qualms about lowering our H&S standards to suit the U.S. export market, food and pharmaceuticals especially. Also our own to facilitate cheaper manufacturing costs. Which is daft as our biggest export market is the EU.

 

I rarely disagree with you but do on this one. There's a lot of farming communities in a lot of Tory constituencies. I don't think they'd dare. There are potential strategic reasons but that one probably trumps all....

 

I just wouldn't put anything past this shower, just as high unemployment and stunted workers rights was a thatcherite policy. They're already in the process of selling off NHS assets to fund it and are not averse to letting the 'muricans advise on health and pharmaceutical policy. I do not trust them as far as you or I could spit into a hurricane. How much have food prices increased just since the vote? And our farmers are still going out of business. They'll be importing chlorinated chicken before you can say "Rees Mogg is a thoroughly decent chap!"

 

No

 

No deal would never get through the House, and that point snookers those Tories who, for reasons best known, are pushing for that most brutal of exits.

The ‘superstate project’ is nothing more than ‘project fear’, as there’s no appetite for a federal super state within the European populous, that ideology will never gain the kind of traction that it would require.

The only thing that the referendum needs to deliver, is us exiting the EU, the manner of our departure was never part of the ballot paper, and none of the Leave campaigns had any authority to promise anything remember........so the talk from the far right minority of the Tory party who are currently stamping their feet have no grounds to complain that Mays white paper doesn’t somehow ‘respect the result’, it’s simply yet more contorting of what supposedly constitutes democracy.

It’s amusing when the ‘out means out’, ‘Brexit means Brexit’, ‘you lost get over it’ crowd start pontificating over what the out vote on the ballot paper supposedly meant to EVERYONE, despite it never being defined by anyone with the authority to do so.....I’m sure they’d be of exactly the same mindset if Remain had won and ‘in means in’ was trotted out, and the result was taken to mean that we’d now join Schengen and the Euro, as we weren’t fully in before and the result meant that the will of the people had to be respected. You lost get over it.

 

That’s simply not true. The Leave campaign leaflet didn’t even state that we’d leave the SM and CU, neither did the Govt leaflet. Most of the Leave campaigners spoke about the Norwegian and Swiss models, the amnesia is all yours.

 

Your have selective amnesia I'm afraid, all the key players made it clear leaving the EU meant leaving the SM & CU.

 

You sure about that?

 

Thought not - the will of the people only goes so far eh?

 

Can you demonstrate that? If it were true then the Norway model could not have been suggested as an option. It was. Even you with your convenient hindsight must admit that.
Anyway - as you know the vote said to leave the EU - Norway is not in the EU so leave can include doing so with the NOrway model.
Surely you are not relying for your argument on promises made during the referendum campaign. If you are we can debate all the lies, false claims etc..
Does not matter Leave means Norway

 

You set this thread up to get away from arguing about the why's and wherefores of the referendum campaign and focus on going forward. Do you ever feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall?!

 

"A pretence and a charade intended to dupe the electorate". That sums it up pretty well, and it comes from a Brexiteer.
If you look at what is being said today in the press, you will find that there is a massive effort going on to suggest that the Tory party is now united behind this plan, so the country needs to get behind it, and the EU needs to take it seriously. Of course it is so far from the truth almost anyone should be able to see it for what it is, more fudge. We must wait for the detail, but it seems that in the present form we are still trying to sell something that has already been rejected. Yes there has been some movement, but nowhere near enough. It reminds me of watching my wife line dancing. Two steps forward, one back, one sideways, then repeat. The second sequence is the same, except you start from a slightly different point. Although one moves down the room, it is still the same dance, and after an about turn everyone finishes off where they first started from.

 

The only people that have lost so far are the 'remainers?.

 

Is that your only retort to that entire post?

 

I've given up on hoping a thread will develop in any particular way. I thought it might be a chance for us to say what we thought life could be like post brexit but with brexit being undecided I guess it was inevitable we could not really see beyond it.
Arguing over what brexit meant or what is or is not a good deal and who is to blame for what seems so sterile but it is up to posters how they want to discuss.

 

He is correct though. We have lost. No deal will change that - it is only a question of how badly we lose and how much damage is done to the UK going forward. Don't you find it nice to know though that a small percentage of brexiters are just happy they won and could not care less about those who lost? Shows a caring attitude eh?

 

Picking up on the "thread" side of your post though I see a UK which is left poorer for the decision to leave. Even with the best will in the world new trade deals cannot hope to replace loss of EU trade. We will not wake up in the morning benefiting from our lovely sovereignty and absence of ECJ rulings will not make a jot of difference to most people's lives. Nothing about immigration will change that we could not have delivered with or without brexit.
So the country will be less able to find money for the NHS and Care services which are so desperately needed now and will be even more so in the future. Our children and their children will live in a UK (if it does not break up) that slips down the economic prosperity league and we will see many European countries over take our GDP. Not a great or hopeful future that I can envisage.

 

Unless you’re a Non Dom millionaire who’s going to escape the EU’s proposed clampdown on offshore tax havens, then I’ve no idea what the average Brexiteer things that they’ve actually ‘won’.

The notional idea of Sovereignty, taking back control.....when we’ve always had control of our domestic policies. Not one of them can seemingly name an EU law or regulation that impinges on their daily lives, and that they can’t wait to see the back of.....

Taking control of our borders......we’ve always had control of our borders and nothing at our borders will change. We’ve also always had the ability to remove EU citizens who move here and either don’t find work or can’t sustain themselves.....

Trade....let’s make dealing with the largest and most lucrative trading bloc on the planet which is right on our doorstep much more difficult.....so that we can supposedly replace what we lose with so far undefined and timescale free ‘new deals’ with other markets thousands of miles away......economic genius

The bottom line is, that they voted for an ideology, they were sold the idea that Britain didn’t need Johnny Foreigner and could strike out on its own, rule Britannia. All of it, emotive, belief based, factless bullshit.

 

What you said. Verbatim.