two to take us up to seventh heaven.

[Chappaz]

I know who the deluded knobs are on here and they don't wear red & white.

The barcodes have slightly over achieved and we have slightly under achieved thus far into the 2011/12 season but we have since appointed a very good manager to turn that around.

Corrected.

We are all only 17/18 games into the campaign with some 18/19 left to play and a transfer window to recruit, there is every reason for us to be enthusiastic. I can fully appreciate that barcodes are extremely unhappy that Martin oNeill is now in charge at SAFC but to say we are delusional for wanting samba and pav as targets is bizarre.

Read the thread, Cestria. The delusion isn't that you want Samba and Pav. Believe me, I'd like them too. The delusion is the notion that adding these players would not only allow Sunderland to overhaul their very poor start, but also leapfrog teams like Newcastle, Everton, Villa, Stoke, Fulham and so on to finish in 7th place. Some of those teams have better squads, managers just as good, and will be strengthening in the January window too.

 

[...And Out Come the Wolve]

I'm keeping my mouth shut personally. We could go up or down in the next few months.

Believe me, you're entitled to form a reasonable opinion based on one result or even a few, but it's a different kettle of fish when you invisage that a couple of signings would allow you to leapfrog teams which are not only numerous points ahead, but also have better squads. It just defies any logic, really.



There's confidence, but then there's delusion. I think Sunderland will do well and finish top 10 this season, but adding a few signings to reach 7th after the poor start? Come on.

Why not? Theres not much to choose between the squads below the top 6. A flying start has seen your team full of confidence most of the season thus far, while it is has been the oppsite for us. For any of the teams below 6th a couple of quality siginings can really raise the quality of their team and thus the league postion. Its only the end of December, theres ACON, the transfer window and half a bloody season still to go, who can say what will actually happen.

All I can do is take comfort in the knowledge that we are heading in the right direction again and looking on with optimism.

(And on a side note, Pardew looks more and more tired every time I see him on SSN or elsewhere.)

 

[Chappaz]

Why not? Theres not much to choose between the squads below the top 6.

Exactly, so why do you think you guys will be able to overhaul the current points gap and THEN go on to outperform every team to finish 7th?

I'll tell you why not, because your squad simply isn't that good, although I doubt you'll believe me.

A flying start has seen your team full of confidence most of the season thus far, while it is has been the oppsite for us. For any of the teams below 6th a couple of quality siginings can really raise the quality of their team and thus the league postion. Its only the end of December, theres ACON, the transfer window and half a bloody season still to go, who can say what will actually happen.

No one, but I can say what appears incredibly unlikely, delusional and illogical.

I currently think Newcastle have a better XI than Sunderland with the likes of Krul, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Ba. If we added Samba and Pav, do I think we could overturn a hypothetical bad start like yours and finish 7th? **** no. We're currently sitting on 30 points with just one point behind Liverpool, and I'm STILL not sure if we can retain 7th or 8th against the onslaught of some good teams.

All I can do is take comfort in the knowledge that we are heading in the right direction again and looking on with optimism.

By all means enjoy it. You've got every right to see the future as bright, because it probably is.

(And on a side note, Pardew looks more and more tired every time I see him on SSN or elsewhere.)

He does, I agree. Must be a stressful job.

 

[connor wigham]

Chappaz honest question why dont you stay on your own board when everytime you come on to this one you get so much abuse

 

[...And Out Come the Wolve]

First off, I'm not saying we will/would overtake you, but to rule it out is as naive as you making out that it is delusional to think that it could happen. To coin a cliche, stranger things have happened. Now why do things become cliched? Because they ring true?

Why have you seemingly agreed that the sides below 6th are quite even then gone on to say that yours is much much better? The margins are much easier to cover than for the top teams. A few injuries here, a few good siginings here can still define both our seasons.

 

[Willa Pond]

Chappaz honest question why dont you stay on your own board when everytime you come on to this one you get so much abuse

He's a masochist with delusions of being interesting?

 

[Chappaz]

Chappaz honest question why dont you stay on your own board when everytime you come on to this one you get so much abuse

If I'm the one who has basically disagreed with someone, and therefore started the resulting tirade of abuse, do you honestly think I'm bothered by it?

I actually laugh out loud at a lot of the abuse, especially from Cest.

 

[connor wigham]

well there is no real point coming on if you arnt going to be able to have a proper debate you may aswell stay on the newcastle board (where i assume there is alot of debate)

 

[Nads]

Chappaz,

None of your reply to me is balanced at all.

We had a **** start, heavily due to mismanagement, not acknowledged.

Pav has rarely been a regular starter, and has barely ever played 90mins. He is more than capable of increasing his output as a main striker.

If we lose Catts, we have Meyler and Colback, both of the same standard, and potentially higher, Gardner i´d like to keep, but will he displace Sess in a settled midfield? No.

The Danny Simpson thing was a throwaway comment, but in reality your defence is fast becoming a shambles.

Thing is, you call us deluded, but is it that unrealistic that a team of talented but mismanaged players could go on a run and maybe even overachieve, like you lot have, in the second half of the season? Is it ****. Could easily happen.

I never once said it will, in fact I said it´s unlikely, yet you call me deluded?

I´ve had many decent chats and debates with you here over time mate, but you are way off on this one, way off.

For the record, i never use the word deluded towards anyone, opinion and belief is not delusion.

 

[Chappaz]

First off, I'm not saying we will/would overtake you, but to rule it out is as naive as you making out that it is delusional to think that it could happen. To coin a cliche, stranger things have happened. Now why do things become cliched? Because they ring true?

If the roles were reversed, and we were in the same boat as you on your current points total, and we thought that signing two good players would allow us to finish in 7th place above some good sides (including you, who had a fantastic, fantastic start), what would you say?

Really, think about it.

Why have you seemingly agreed that the sides below 6th are quite even then gone on to say that yours is much much better? The margins are much easier to cover than for the top teams. A few injuries here, a few good siginings here can still define both our seasons.

No sides are totally even. There aren't any MAJOR fluctuations, but some sides are better than others. It also depends on starting XIs and squads. I think we have a better starting XI, but poorer depth, so that evens it out slightly too. Stuff like that.

But you're right, the margins certainly are small. I recall when we were being ripped for having to plug up our defence with four right backs, but within just a few weeks of that happening, Sunderland are having injury troubles which means they're considering recalling Nyron Nosworthy.

Hey, maybe the two sides aren't that different after all.

 

[Nads]

If the roles were reversed, and we were in the same boat as you on your current points total, and we thought that signing two good players would allow us to finish in 7th place above some good sides (including you, who had a fantastic, fantastic start), what would you say?

It´s not 2 players though is it Chappaz.

It´s 2 players plus a manager who can get the best out of the existing squad, has a tactical brain and plays them in their correct positions.

MON is akin to us signing several good quality players.

 

[Chappaz]

well there is no real point coming on if you arnt going to be able to have a proper debate you may aswell stay on the newcastle board (where i assume there is alot of debate)

I'm having a lot of debate right at this moment with some of the more level-headed people like Apple Pie. Some of the angrier mackems are there for light entertainment.

Chappaz,

None of your reply to me is balanced at all.

We had a **** start, heavily due to mismanagement, not acknowledged.

Heavily due to management, but not entirely due to management. Your squad is decent, but some people make it seem like Bruce is down to you guys losing every single point. With O'Neill at the helm from the start of the season, where do you think you would be?

Pav has rarely been a regular starter, and has barely ever played 90mins. He is more than capable of increasing his output as a main striker.

I'm sure he is, just don't expect miracles.

If we lose Catts, we have Meyler and Colback, both of the same standard, and potentially higher, Gardner i´d like to keep, but will he displace Sess in a settled midfield? No.

If you lose Cattermole and Gardner, who would you put in the 2 CM spots as your first-choice partnership, and who would be left as backup? Perhaps the depth isn't as good as you think.

The Danny Simpson thing was a throwaway comment, but in reality your defence is fast becoming a shambles.

Well you're just totally, totally wrong there. We had a torrid time with no actual CBs at one point where we had to play four right backs. However, Coloccini is back to his best again, and more importantly, Williamson is back. He's the guy who is our aerial defence and wins the headers. That's what Saylor did before he was injured, so we had an awful time against set pieces for a while without someone like that, but it's sorted now.

We'll be getting a new CB in January, and Santon is back who looks almost as good as Enrique. What shambles?

Thing is, you call us deluded, but is it that unrealistic that a team of talented but mismanaged players could go on a run and maybe even overachieve, like you lot have, in the second half of the season? Is it ****. Could easily happen.

There's a run, and then there's a ****ing lightspeed sprint. You have a poor points haul where other teams have big leads, and it would be an achievement to scramble back and grab one of the top 10 points, but 7th spot? Come on man. Other teams pick up points and strengthen as well, you know. That includes us.

I´ve had many decent chats and debates with you here over time mate, but you are way off on this one, way off.

Read my post above, where I suggested that you think about it if the roles were reversed. What would you say to us mags? Is my demusement that hard to understand?

 

[Chappaz]

It´s not 2 players though is it Chappaz.

It´s 2 players plus a manager who can get the best out of the existing squad, has a tactical brain and plays them in their correct positions.

MON is akin to us signing several good quality players.

MON is a good manager, but he's not a god. Don't get carried away.

Getting some new players, getting the best out of them and playing them in their correct positions is nothing spectacular. In fact, it's what most other managers in this league do, including Pardew. I don't know why you think that would give you an advantage over teams like us, Everton, Stoke and so on?

I think you've got too used to Bruce. What MON has done, and what he will do, is nothing new or spectacular. It's simply what most other managers have done and will continue to do for the rest of the season.

 

[Nads]

MON is a good manager, but he's not a god. Don't get carried away.

Getting some new players, getting the best out of them and playing them in their correct positions is nothing spectacular. In fact, it's what most other managers in this league do, including Pardew. I don't know why you think that would give you an advantage over teams like us, Everton, Stoke and so on?

I think you've got too used to Bruce. What MON has done, and what he will do, is nothing new or spectacular. It's simply what most other managers have done and will continue to do for the rest of the season.

That´s the whole point though Chappaz.

I never hailed MON as a god, but share your opinion, he is a good, indeed a very good manager, in place of a completely and utterly inept one.

We are no longer handicapped by Bruce´s mismanagement, so our points tally will increase, regardless of signings.

If we add goals, we have a side that is impressive at the back (note the facts, league table).

We lack a bit of spark, a decent striker could rectify that, note once again, i stated it´s unlikely we will finish 7th, a point you have TWICE disregarded now.

I said, if we signed Samba, Pav AND Kranjkaer, i´d believe we had a chance of 7th.

I stand by that, 100%

 

[Cest Advocaat]

ChippedArse - there are still 20 games to play and thats a mammoth 60 points.

Considering our pathetic start, we are no more than 7 points from 8th and 12 points to 7th.

Also worth considering is the fact our goal difference is currently 8th best; our goals for and against are very comparable to anyone in the 6th to 10th places (better than some) which would indicate its clever tweaking that is required not wholesale changes in order to turn things around. That and the fact that MoN has a totally clean broom to sweep clean means he will have a positive input in the transfer window that will almost certainly in our case have a positive outcome (you dont think he will have a negative one do you? Really?) so yes, we have every reason to be cheerful and optimistic for the whole of the 2nd half of the season thanks.

If he had been appointed with 10 games to go then it would have been a rescue act only. As it is, its a rescue act and a lets see what happens sort of season as well. Its not like there is a 20 or 25 points gap between us and 7th is it? Its 4 games difference and Celtic have recently shown how big leads can be chased down. You say top 10 is the best we can hope for? Why? Everton are only 3 points from us beiong top 10 now and thats one game and after the ****ty season we have had thus far?

Our season started with high expectation but faltered badly from day one. IMO, our season is once again full of optimism and excitement and no amount of barcode pissing on our parade will change that outcome, or dampen our spirits. We are on the march once again with MoN's red & white army.

 

[connor wigham]

Chappaz - ATM we have vaughn,catts,gardner,colback,myler and sess who can play in the middle

 

[Cest Advocaat]

Chappaz - ATM we have vaughn,catts,gardner,colback,myler and sess who can play in the middle

And dont forget Richardson, who imo plays at his very best as a left sided attacking midfielder.

If we buy in a right back, a left back and a striker next month, I'll be more than satisfied with the transfer window activities of Mr O Neill.

 

[...And Out Come the Wolve]

If the roles were reversed, and we were in the same boat as you on your current points total, and we thought that signing two good players would allow us to finish in 7th place above some good sides (including you, who had a fantastic, fantastic start), what would you say?

Really, think about it.



No sides are totally even. There aren't any MAJOR fluctuations, but some sides are better than others. It also depends on starting XIs and squads. I think we have a better starting XI, but poorer depth, so that evens it out slightly too. Stuff like that.

But you're right, the margins certainly are small. I recall when we were being ripped for having to plug up our defence with four right backs, but within just a few weeks of that happening, Sunderland are having injury troubles which means they're considering recalling Nyron Nosworthy.

Hey, maybe the two sides aren't that different after all.

Confidence breeds confidence, a team doing well are likely to achieve more than a doing badly, if the squads are totally even. Although I never said they were even, just close. Again you agree on the small margins yet disagree on that the teams are similar. It doesn't take much to make any team below L'pool the bset of the rest, so to speak. That is not to say it is easy either mind. Its the step between 7th and 6th that is really hard to bridge. It is much easier to do badly than it is to succeed (stating the obvious I know) and that is to do with management, form/confidence when the teams are so even. In all probability, we are not as bad as you would like to think and you are not as good as you like to think either.

 

[Billy Death]

I'm keeping my mouth shut personally. We could go up or down in the next few months.

Believe me, you're entitled to form a reasonable opinion based on one result or even a few, but it's a different kettle of fish when you invisage that a couple of signings would allow you to leapfrog teams which are not only numerous points ahead, but also have better squads. It just defies any logic, really.



There's confidence, but then there's delusion. I think Sunderland will do well and finish top 10 this season, but adding a few signings to reach 7th after the poor start? Come on.

I wish you would.

 

[concrete tony]

I don't see what's embarassing at all.

You had a very poor start which saw you lingering near the relegation spots. You've taken 5 points from Blackburn, QPR and Everton, and now you think a couple of extra players will not only overturn your bad start, but also allow you to skip right over teams like Newcastle, Stoke, Villa, Everton, Fulham and so on to take 7th place?

Come on.

We make a LOT of chances, and Bendtner doesn't take them, Pav would.

Pavlyuchenko has never been better than a 1 in 3 striker for the four seasons he's been here, and that's arguably with better service due to the quality of Spurs' squad. I don't know what makes you think that he's suddenly going to turn into a goal machine which enables you to leapfrog 4 or 5 teams who have done better than you this season so far.

Losing 2 midfielders from an area where we are heavily overloaded with similar players would not hurt us in any way, shape or form.

Heavily overloaded? If you lose Gardner and Cattermole, and then find two CMs to fill the two CM spots, who else do you have for backup? It goes from being good depth to being very poor depth, where one or two injuries would land you in a heap of trouble.

7th, i doubt it's likely, but it's not impossible, not by a long shot, with half a season left, and a lot of teams weakened by the ACN (we are unaffected), if we got a striker in, the right striker, we can easily put a run together.

Pav, Samba and Kranjkaer, and i´d believe we could do it.

This Martin O'Neill thing really has added a monumental wave of delusion. I wasn't going to say it, but your side is still in the honeymood period after a new manager. Wait until you've came back down to earth and levelled out with the other sides who have just as good managers, and in some cases, better squads.

Really, think about what you're saying. You dropped a lot of points near the start of the season. If what you said was accurate, and you could reach 7th, it would likely mean that if you didn't have such a poor start where you lost so many points, you would be up in one of the CL spots.

Outside the top 6, the league is average as ****, showcased by a team with Danny Simpson in its ranks sitting 7th after a poor run.

What has one player got to do with it? He participated in one of the best defences in the league up until recently. If you think that defence is 'average', then perhaps it's more to do with teams like yours' inability to score.

On this last point - one of the best defences in the league, I think you'll find we have conceeded exactly the same goals as you so a strong addition would help us. Our inability to score??? We have scored 3 less than u and we don't have a goalscorer. So when u lose ba who will score your goals. I don't think we will finish 7th. Nor do I think the mags will finish 7th. It would be great if both clubs could finish top 10.