Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Can the deal pass through the commons? Difficult at the moment. Labour MPs have to abstain in large numbers or vote for it.

If it fails, 3 possible outcomes (ignoring the personal ramifications for May and others):1) a No deal Brexit. Or 2) People’s vote 3) general election.

Yet option 1 was described by Rudd (and May later in her Phone in) as a disaster scenario that the commons will not accept or vote for. And no one in the country has prepared any contingency for that scenario.

Option 2 has already been ruled out by May. Unless she is kicked out of no 10.

Option 3) I can’t see May and her colleagues deliberately risking putting Corbyn in power. And no one can force one on May

Something has to give. My money is on the deal being approved by MPs although most of them think it is a lousy deal, worse than staying in.

imo.... there will be large numbers who walk away and abstain.

a) vote no and you either hope for second referendum to remain(delusion) or you are making political gain. (dup)

b) vote yes and you are a turkey voting for christmas as a Brexiteer. this is exactly the sort of deal expected July anyone rational so to think to renegotiate 4 months from leave is deluded too. as a remained to vote for this deal is unpalatable but you've got to do something.

c) the easy option is to cobble up some deal and half the parliament just abstained (weak) but at least your fingers prints are not on the consequences.

imo the Tories only chose may to make this unpalatable deal. it's the only explanation of how none of the rabid dogs have ever actually challenged her even after her disastrous election.

she was the compromise and patsy to get this deal as none of the 1922 are stupid enough to think any better deal was possible.

may is done the second this passes. she will be gone and the dup will be gone too .. election very quickly after March 2019


btw I spoke to a lad from ni yesterday. I'd class him prob as of the green variety but hardly one of the unite this or that types. his view was that having spoken to people in Belfast that businessmen and farmers who would be dup voters are all quite happy with the deal themselves. good for their pockets in other words.

I can only conclude this bunch of loons are acting up to fly the flag and will quietly vanish on the day.

who knows though. Frank might well comment more accurately than my single person conversation

 

[Angry_Physics]

imo.... there will be large numbers who walk away and abstain.

a) vote no and you either hope for second referendum to remain(delusion) or you are making political gain. (dup)

b) vote yes and you are a turkey voting for christmas as a Brexiteer. this is exactly the sort of deal expected July anyone rational so to think to renegotiate 4 months from leave is deluded too. as a remained to vote for this deal is unpalatable but you've got to do something.

c) the easy option is to cobble up some deal and half the parliament just abstained (weak) but at least your fingers prints are not on the consequences.

imo the Tories only chose may to make this unpalatable deal. it's the only explanation of how none of the rabid dogs have ever actually challenged her even after her disastrous election.

she was the compromise and patsy to get this deal as none of the 1922 are stupid enough to think any better deal was possible.

may is done the second this passes. she will be gone and the dup will be gone too .. election very quickly after March 2019


btw I spoke to a lad from ni yesterday. I'd class him prob as of the green variety but hardly one of the unite this or that types. his view was that having spoken to people in Belfast that businessmen and farmers who would be dup voters are all quite happy with the deal themselves. good for their pockets in other words.

I can only conclude this bunch of loons are acting up to fly the flag and will quietly vanish on the day.

who knows though. Frank might well comment more accurately than my single person conversation

When half the country, the BBC, the Tories and liberal media, academia, banks and corps all undermine the UK's position since the vote was over, why is anyone surprised about this **** show?

Remainers and their supporters have caused this, May is a remainer ffs

What you should be concerned about is, there was a democratic vote to leave, the largest election turn out in the history of UK politics, and the promises made were not delivered.

Most laughable, remainers know NOTHING about the EU and defend it out of ignorance and nonsense. It's led by a raging alcoholic who created a tax haven for bureaucrats and biz people before being handed the job, he was elected unopposed like Blatter.

What I find truly disturbing is how willing many are to hand over all control over everything to un-elected unaccountable scumbags and loonies who have made Europe a pile of **** in the last decade, Austerity, terrorism, hordes of human dross, and capitulation to Islam for fear of it's fundamentalist (the majority) followers starting a campaign of violence bombings and death (an intolerant violent undemocratic misogynistic homophobic antisemitic doctrine)

Didn't the UK just refuse to take the Christian woman in Pakistan who's life is measured in heartbeats because she offended Islam, because of the reaction of the UK's Muslim population?!

We just had the UK military warned by the council of Islam or whatever in the UK, warned they WILL become targets of suicide bombers, merely because some cadets took a photo with Tommy Robinson

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

the eu immediately and unanimously agree the brexit withdrawl deal.

if you thought it a bad deal before.... well the eu can never decide anything quickly. It took it what 5 or 6 years to decide quantitative easing was not the devil.....

if this lot agree this withdrawal this fast it must be a complete shocker. but imo we will vote for it anyway.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

so everyone is saying that the deal is the best possible.

ie may and the eu.

meanwhile johnson is in belfast rallying the dup to vote no on the deal he has no alternative to. that's fun.

Blair is on marr saying one more vote but only one mind and then we will all be mates... and the deal is awful. vote on what you like have 3 or 4 options he doesn't care

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

watching Russel Howard hour....

 

[carlthejackal]

so everyone is saying that the deal is the best possible.

ie may and the eu.

meanwhile johnson is in belfast rallying the dup to vote no on the deal he has no alternative to. that's fun.

Blair is on marr saying one more vote but only one mind and then we will all be mates... and the deal is awful. vote on what you like have 3 or 4 options he doesn't care

There we have it. We have now admission from all sides that Brexit is going to be painful economically certainly in the short term. No more credible “operation fear” or “scare mongering” arguments whenever the economic consequences of Brexit are outlined. No more silly superficial statements like EU markets will easily be replaced by wonderful trades with US (Trump’s crass unsubtle pronouncements put these to bed) China, India, Japan and others. As if these countries didn’t have their own preferential regional agreements. No more ridiculous statements like: no way will German car makers or French wine makers allow a no deal blah blah. The EU had all the aces in this game: they never had to make it easy for the UK to leave.

There was never a pain free Brexit available. All the Brexiteers in government recognised that early and stopped the pretence.

It is now out in the open and the choice is clear and stark:

Ideological v economic.

Do we want to cut off political ties and influence that the EU currently have on the UK laws and end free movement but suffer economically? That is why the oldest voters went for Brexit and the youngest whose priority was jobs went against.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

There we have it. We have now admission from all sides that Brexit is going to be painful economically certainly in the short term. No more credible “operation fear” or “scare mongering” arguments whenever the economic consequences of Brexit are outlined. No more silly superficial statements like EU markets will easily be replaced by wonderful trades with US (Trump’s crass unsubtle pronouncements put these to bed) China, India, Japan and others. As if these countries didn’t have their own preferential regional agreements. No more ridiculous statements like: no way will German makers or French wine makers allow a no deal blah blah. The EU had all the aces in this game: they never had to make it easy for the UK to leave.

There was never a pain free Brexit available. All the Brexiteers in government recognised that early and stopped the pretence.

It is now out in the open and the choice is clear and stark:

Ideological v economic.

Do we want to cut off political ties and influence that the EU currently have on the UK laws and end free movement but suffer economically? That is why the oldest voters went for Brexit and the youngest whose priority was jobs went against.

in the end that final line is exactly what it is. "Free movement" and "eu setting our laws" attitudes

but ignore how british have benefited hugely form free movement but in terms of workers coming but rich old people going to france and spain. Also ignore that actually UK has big imput into laws being developed.... if of course you don't send farages etc who'd not interest in making an input.

So just ignore deals. if the May "deal" delivers on the ideology then pissing about on "how good a deal can we get" is pointless.

IMO labour and the outside the camp tories are playing for post brexit power and the DUP are wrapping themselves in the flag thinking they can play NI assembly politics games and there'll be no consequences.

For me when all is said and done i still think an amazing number of whiners will vanish on the day of a vote and this will be muddled through. Forget new votes and all that ****. It will just be muddled through cos there's no alternative

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

In theory there's a 2 tier Europe.

The union... and the "community"

the union is the in crowd who unlike their forbears charge for access. THe uk has decided to step out of the union and has a choice to be like russia or us completely outside or be like norway or switzerland and pay for access to markets as theres no other choice but to.

the original intent of the EEC was a was a regional organisation which aimed to bring about economic integration and to end wars in europe by having closer ties. The UK joined later but then this organisation kept changing to the point that it is a union and a quasi federal state.

The point would be in terms of population its bigger than USA and canada combined. Its not as wealthy as a lot of that population is in eastern europe but standards are slowly rising. To step away from a block 6 times your size and thumb your nose at it is not a good idea. This is why norway and switzerland have deals of thier own but stick to their ideologies.

To even mention a no deal with euope and crash out (crash being the operative word) is nonsensical. The UK has been full in so long that extracting itself is far more difficult than actually making a deal. Models for the deal exist form canada to norway.

the only angst right now is the terms of withdrawl not the new deal. The DUP want to be the big boys and remove an agreement that macron in france has only just used himself to deflect form his own issues.

Do the DUP seriously think they can remove a binding article form stage 1 of the negotiations for their 10 votes.

Do Rudd, Johnson, Mogg and the rest really think theres any sort of deal available. The fact johnson was over wowing the DUP party in belfast rather than on TV in england shows where his support is at.

Labour don't know what to do.. they are trying to be populist with leavers in northern england and remainers in london. its actually hilarious to look at how twisted they are to try maximise votes.

My view is May will string this out form now will march with no vote in parliament until its far far too late to do anything but ratify. the only way for brexiteers to take action is to trigger no confidence, win a tory leadership battle and get the thing voted down in decemebr or jan and go back to eu with new requests.

just wathc... there won't be a vote til its a cliff edge that the dup and brexiteers are led to.

 

[carlthejackal]

In theory there's a 2 tier Europe.

The union... and the "community"

the union is the in crowd who unlike their forbears charge for access. THe uk has decided to step out of the union and has a choice to be like russia or us completely outside or be like norway or switzerland and pay for access to markets as theres no other choice but to.

the original intent of the EEC was a was a regional organisation which aimed to bring about economic integration and to end wars in europe by having closer ties. The UK joined later but then this organisation kept changing to the point that it is a union and a quasi federal state.

The point would be in terms of population its bigger than USA and canada combined. Its not as wealthy as a lot of that population is in eastern europe but standards are slowly rising. To step away from a block 6 times your size and thumb your nose at it is not a good idea. This is why norway and switzerland have deals of thier own but stick to their ideologies.

To even mention a no deal with euope and crash out (crash being the operative word) is nonsensical. The UK has been full in so long that extracting itself is far more difficult than actually making a deal. Models for the deal exist form canada to norway.

the only angst right now is the terms of withdrawl not the new deal. The DUP want to be the big boys and remove an agreement that macron in france has only just used himself to deflect form his own issues.

Do the DUP seriously think they can remove a binding article form stage 1 of the negotiations for their 10 votes.

Do Rudd, Johnson, Mogg and the rest really think theres any sort of deal available. The fact johnson was over wowing the DUP party in belfast rather than on TV in england shows where his support is at.

Labour don't know what to do.. they are trying to be populist with leavers in northern england and remainers in london. its actually hilarious to look at how twisted they are to try maximise votes.

My view is May will string this out form now will march with no vote in parliament until its far far too late to do anything but ratify. the only way for brexiteers to take action is to trigger no confidence, win a tory leadership battle and get the thing voted down in decemebr or jan and go back to eu with new requests.

just wathc... there won't be a vote til its a cliff edge that the dup and brexiteers are led to.

Even that is uncertain. The point is that it is the UK leaving so the other members of the club don’t have to agree anything. That the whole point and which some didn’t grasp at the outset. As leavers we are and have always been at the mercy of the EU. We have always been in a position of weakness.

They do not have to agree a deal. They may suffer but we will suffer more. The Brexiteers overplayed and overestimated their position. Anyway it is all up in the air. This is new ground.

Everyone may get something out of voting this down. Or get nothing.

 

[astro]

Even that is uncertain. The point is that it is the UK leaving so the other members of the club don’t have to agree anything. That the whole point and which some didn’t grasp at the outset. As leavers we are and have always been at the mercy of the EU. We have always been in a position of weakness.

They do not have to agree a deal. They may suffer but we will suffer more. The Brexiteers overplayed and overestimated their position. Anyway it is all up in the air. This is new ground.

Everyone may get something out of voting this down. Or get nothing.

Brexit: give us everything we want, and BTW give us it before March otherwise we're totally ****ed.

[HASHTAG]#whatcouldpossiblygowrong[/HASHTAG]

 

[Angry_Physics]

Heh after the lib media meltdown over Trump calling the migrant caravan an invasion, the caravan is trying to overrun the border and force its way through, an invasion

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Heh after the lib media meltdown over Trump calling the migrant caravan an invasion, the caravan is trying to overrun the border and force its way through, an invasion

Haven't paid a blinds bit of attention to it since TBH. The shoot to kill order or whatever makes a nice headline but that story isn't really even getting small pages here.

 

[Angry_Physics]

Haven't paid a blinds bit of attention to it since TBH. The shoot to kill order or whatever makes a nice headline but that story isn't really even getting small pages here.

Nice headline but.. the reality is, the president does not give operational orders to Troops, and never has, not since the time of lords and kings being on the front lines, and officers can refuse unlawful orders anyway even if this bluster from Trump was in any way real, which it wasn't.

Just like with North Korea, he was giving it socks, and as before, there was little real threat behind it. The US was never going to start nuclear war with North Korea, unless they fired first. Trump knew that, everyone knows it, yet it didnt stop the lib media claiming he is threatening nuclear war.

Worses still, how the BBC Guardian and CNN n co all cosied up, and fawned over, that regime just because of Trump, was one of the most biased sickening things I have ever seen the media do.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

What the ****'s going on between Russia and Ukraine now, like?

 

[Angry_Physics]

What the ****'s going on between Russia and Ukraine now, like?

It never stopped. The media just stopped reporting on it. BBC basically whitewashed it from their news.

Ceasefires never held and were largely unobserved, the fighting continued in places anyway,
I mean it does not bode well for news to tell viewers that the money the EU is giving Ukraine is being spent on bullets to kill Ukrainians. Or the rampant Nazis, strange given how said media is talking about the right wing so much since Brexit and Trump.

if MSM is one's news source, one doesnt know **** and that's the truth

 

[Angry_Physics]

From Neo-Nazi to militant: The foreign fighters in Ukraine who Australia's laws won't stop
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05...n-to-australia-with-military-training/9696784

"When Australian former Neo-Nazi and registered gun owner Ethan Tilling flew into Brisbane this year, he was returning under the radar of Australian authorities with newfound combat experience from a brutal and forgotten war."

He's hardly been over there twiddling his thumbs, he's been fighting, and strangely BBC and co don't report on this kind of thing, well not strange, it's because the EU is quite literally funding this civil war

Even neo nazis from other countries are going to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians who are slavs of course, we know Hitler didnt like jews or slav jews

 

[Angry_Physics]

A keeper this one, NATO and NAZI flags together.

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[moreinjuredthanowen]

A keeper this one, NATO and NAZI flags together.

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kind of odd really given what the nazis did in the ukraine but i suppose the russians did as bad.


you'd think some ultra nationalists would have the brains to drop the nazi flag and make a new one.

but there you go.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

so dec 11 vote.

5 days of debate


trumps already said a deal will make it tough to trade with USA...

going to be fun

 

[jenners04]

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