It is all about him, no one else. “I am magic Trump. I have brought historic success to the party. Me me me.
Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.
- Thread starter LuisDiazgamechanger
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Sessions "resigns"...Trump bypasses Rosenstein and hires a guy who called Meuller a witch hunt and to stop him you just defund him.
This will be fun lol
This will be fun lol
https://www.indy100.com/article/jk-...-cnn-1984-george-orwell-message-input-8624136
Crazed righties tell lies.
Crazed righties tell lies.
Haven't used PayPal for seven years now, since I was done on E-bay by some phishing scam. I'll reactivate my account again now though.
Poppy Appeal alternatives: Purple and white poppy meanings and where to get them for Remembrance Sunday today
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...-purple-poppies-remembrance-day-a3986841.html
If you want an example of how politicised poppy are just read this.
Personally if a few Tories want to push people round then play the insults the dead and use the last we forget slogan to do so then it just proves the point.
News presenter Jon Snowfamously refused to wear a poppy on air, citing an "unpleasant breed of poppy fascism."
Wear a white poppy, recognising war dead and promote peace and it's wrong and evil... hmmmm.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...-purple-poppies-remembrance-day-a3986841.html
If you want an example of how politicised poppy are just read this.
Personally if a few Tories want to push people round then play the insults the dead and use the last we forget slogan to do so then it just proves the point.
News presenter Jon Snowfamously refused to wear a poppy on air, citing an "unpleasant breed of poppy fascism."
Wear a white poppy, recognising war dead and promote peace and it's wrong and evil... hmmmm.
It's all bullshit....
Most normal people that wear a poppy do it because.... Working class lads died ... Yes the recent wars have been more "political" (what war isnt) ...
Sorry... I'll never accept the idea that they shouldn't be remembered ... that joining the army is somehow against your own people.... it's only ever said by those that would rat you out and wear the other uniform...
Completely separate from criticising a govt from being imperialist ... aggressive ... murderous...
You can be anti war... who sensible isn't? But.... Jack wasn't all wrong in a few good men
yes of course. the remembrance day at the cenotaph has always been for that exact thing.
as I said the poppy was abducted by Blair.and it's got to the point that it's almost trump and "the nfl players v the flag" stuff
Brexit deal agreed between the negotiators: now for the cabinet, and if it goes through that hurdle on to Parliament.
I honestly think that the best way to resolve this is to have a new referendum. This deal will probably not satisfy the majority of Parliament and most of the public . The hard line Brexiteers are against it because it does not go far enough, the remainders were always going to vote against it in order to get a chance of stopping Brexit. Labour as a bloc will be against it because it will lead to general elections but also because Brexit would lead to an (albeit temporary) economic downturn.
Someone said it was like finding a nice house and putting an offer in. After the survey, you find all sorts of difficulties, problems like subsidence, damp, planning issues that you had not been aware of. What’s the problem of reconsidering the purchase. At least discuss this with your partner and if after a full consideration you still want to buy then fair enough. The hardliners are saying that irrespective of all the problems and faults, we still have to buy the house, because we made an offer.
A second referendum is now closer than ever.
I honestly think that the best way to resolve this is to have a new referendum. This deal will probably not satisfy the majority of Parliament and most of the public . The hard line Brexiteers are against it because it does not go far enough, the remainders were always going to vote against it in order to get a chance of stopping Brexit. Labour as a bloc will be against it because it will lead to general elections but also because Brexit would lead to an (albeit temporary) economic downturn.
Someone said it was like finding a nice house and putting an offer in. After the survey, you find all sorts of difficulties, problems like subsidence, damp, planning issues that you had not been aware of. What’s the problem of reconsidering the purchase. At least discuss this with your partner and if after a full consideration you still want to buy then fair enough. The hardliners are saying that irrespective of all the problems and faults, we still have to buy the house, because we made an offer.
A second referendum is now closer than ever.
there's 300 pages of it. nobody will read it so it's not about referendums any more. everyone will lie about the contents and twist to suit their ends.
imo this deal is about the middle ground dropping party politics and voting it through then collapse parliament and have a big messy election.
there is no vote no for a better deal here so just put Brexit through. may can resign like Cameron did and leave the next mess to whoever the people elect
I honestly can’t believe that some people are saying that because the initial referendum was 52:48 for Brexit , we have to go ahead with it although the outcome is very very far from what most people who voted for Brexit expected. Never mind the remainers. So that if at this point in time 60%-70% (as an example) were unhappy with Brexit and we are pretty certain that we will suffer economically (at least in the short term) do we still go ahead ?
There surely must be a point when we say “Hang on. This is not what we voted for, not what we wanted” At 65% of the population? 80%?
Even if you wanted another referendum who has the power to initiate it?
If it's may don't hold your breath. This is exactly what the tories have been waiting for the power to make their own decisions with little argument against or have power to block anything.
If it's may don't hold your breath. This is exactly what the tories have been waiting for the power to make their own decisions with little argument against or have power to block anything.
dunno.
there's so many vested interests. the rabid Brexiteers in power are mostly liars who want to harvest massive opportunities for them.
the large amount who voted brexit for other reasons such as the generalisation of Europe will still want out.
if uk signs up to a deal which in effect makes it a zombie state orbiting europe (not reason it has to be) then the question is what are people voting for and against.
if you vote it down do you want a no deal Brexit or to remain?
The reality is that what has been agreed is nothing what anybody wanted. So it is like: it is either this deal or a no deal? Who said it has to be only that choice?
Where is it written (like Corbyn said) that Brexit cannot be stopped? Even if 90% of people thought we would suffer economically and wanted a different outcome?
It is like having made a choice, it is now set in stone. No one has the ability to say : hang on! This is not what people wanted, especially the young who have the most to gain or lose from this momentous decision, and who overwhelmingly voted to remain.
In the face of powerful regional blocs forming: NAT and ASEAN for example and hostile nationalism rearing its head everywhere, US, Russia, East Europe, the last thing we should do is being cast alone, drifting away as an inconsequential country at the mercy of someone like Trump.
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Well the eu never wanted it but Cameron agreed to a referendum to stave off the Looney fringe and those paralytic with fear of UKIP.
May came in and bulled ahead, triggering the clause and then calling a disastrous election. That election has created a worse deal for Brexiteers as she ended up relying on dup loonies.
The other 27 are saying fine you idiots you'll pay us off and pay for access just like others do.
We must remember that may was actually elected again not Corbyn and we must remember that 52% voted leave so whatever deal it is is what it is.
Turning round now and slapping the other 27 sovereign nations in the face having already ripped 10% of total eu budget away wouldn't be very smart.
The reality is little England can have it's pounds and ounces, bendy bananas if any can be found and the same foreigners will do the same jobs they are doing and the same trade eill go on under the same regulations. The Irish border will continue to be open as there's a common travel deal there anyway.
The UK can buy as much cheap nasty food from the USA while the usa will demand a toll for trade into usa.
It's not actually going to be a disaster anyway.
Medicines will align on common regulatory ground as the eu and us and Japan already do.
Oh and certain fat Tory backers will make a killing. Once they are happy enough and people in stoke have all the poles transported Easton trains or whatever the hell they seem to want to do... well theyll be happy too.
200 more added over and above what joe the plant got to see.
like..... nobody is going to vote on this based on reading it. it's going to be preconceived notions and biases and just plain political gamesmanship.
I dunno. i can see some parliament passing it then an immediate general election. I can't see another referendum as the only question to be asked is do you accept or reject deal and the public can't be qualified to make that call.
the hardliners will have their agents out spinning say no and go back for better deal line.
if it's voted no it's not renegotiate time it's hard brexit no deal.time.....
the best we can hope for is deal is done and then there's a general.election.
let the Tories get obliterated and let gove or.boris run the rump
That's the whole point. Did people have the full information when they voted? I am sure there were some hard core voters on either side. Who had made their minds and who were not going to change their minds no matter what. However there was a significant proportion of voters who relied on the information they were provided at the time by politicians and voted on the basis of the information they believed.
How many people believed that the NHS would benefit from £350M/week extra?
How many people believed that it was just a simple matter of saying we are out and stopped paying into the budget? And not an incredibly complex process as it turned out.
How many people believed that coming out would incur hardly any costs (like £30-60billions)?
How many people did not pay any attention whatsoever to the NI border issue?
How many people believed that the NHS and other services would be improved (because there will be less demand) and totally ignored the fact that the smooth running of the services depended on EU workers?
How many people believed that we would easily establish trading relationships with others and they would replace the ones we lose with the EU countries?
How many people thought we would be better economically with Brexit rather than significantly worse off?
Any warning or predictions about those were promptly dismissed by the hard brexiteers as scare mongering. Realistic projections got lumped with fanciful ones and the public had to go with their gut feelings.
A second referendum IMO is needed. If all the facts are laid out and the public still wanted to Brexit, then fair enough.
The issue is it would be fought on not a
Brexit or remain but on a this deal or no deal footing.
even more lies would be told and unravelling them would be even worse/harder.
True. Lies are inevitable with our democratic system.
The pros and cons of Brexit were complex. But the brexiteers boiled it down to a few emotional issues: Do you want to stop uncontrolled east European migration? Did you want to ease the pressure on health and other services? Did you want Parliament to regain full sovereignty? Did you want to trade with other countries like Australia and the US without any restrictions? What's not to like.
But at least the cons of Brexit are now more exposed rather than promptly dismissed as scaremongering.
The referendum could be a choice between moving ahead (in the light of the difficulties and the economic downturn) or stopping the process and status quo.