Transfer thread Summer 2015

[Canary Rob]

Which leaves us with any 2 from Bassong, Turner or Bennett at CB. Stop this thread - I'm getting depressed!!

Miquel too

I know that sounds like a joke, but the guy has played a handful of games for Arsenal and the Spanish youth teams. So I don't think we should write him off just yet, though I'm not convinced. How many other players in our squad have played in a Champions League match?


EDIT: Bassong has, obviously with Tottenham. Hooper also I shouldn't forget... VOO has a couple of CL qualifiers under his belt.

 

[Canary Rob]

What you fail to show here though is that whilst you've discounted Snodgrass's time in Scotland, you have still included his 86 appearances in League One, which make up significantly more than a third of your sample size.

Snodders has about 1 in 5 for goals and assists for only his PL performances - he's actually been very consistent at each level on that front

Robbie Brady has 3 goals and 3 assists from 43 PL games though I'm not sure that's entirely fair as he's probably played quite a few of those at LB

EDIT: just checked - almost all his 43 PL games were actually in midfield. I thought he could double as a LB, but I can't see that anywhere?

 

[1950canary]

Miquel too

I know that sounds like a joke, but the guy has played a handful of games for Arsenal and the Spanish youth teams. So I don't think we should write him off just yet, though I'm not convinced. How many other players in our squad have played in a Champions League match?

Not a joke Rob because I fully agree with you. My mistake for forgetting him. Just a little bit less depressed than I was!!

 

[originallambrettaman]

The one thing I don't understand is why everyone is rating Brady so highly. I'd only heard of him in passing as some youth player for Hull until we were linked to him. And no-one else is remotely interested in signing him based on what is publicly available.

By contrast Snodders was the best-value fantasy football player cos of all those goals and assists!

Brady was never a youth player for Hull City, he was a youth player for Man United, but went straight into our first team.

He cost us £2.5m and since gone on to prove himself a very handy Premier League player.

Comparing the goal scoring records of a left back and an attacking midfield player who also takes free kicks(Snodgrass) is rather pointless.

The stuff about Bruce playing to City fans is nonsense, we all think he's worth £6-7m, we did before anyone bid and we still do now. The things that Bruce has said may reflect our opinion, they certainly didn't create it.

I expect you'll get him, but for the £6-7m he was always worth.

 

[Canary Rob]

Brady was never a youth player for Hull City, he was a youth player for Man United, but went straight into our first team.

He cost us £2.5m and since gone on to prove himself a very handy Premier League player.

Comparing the goal scoring records of a left back and an attacking midfield player who also takes free kicks(Snodgrass) is rather pointless.

The stuff about Bruce playing to City fans is nonsense, we all think he's worth £6-7m, we did before anyone bid and we still do now. The things that Bruce has said may reflect our opinion, they certainly didn't create it.

I expect you'll get him, but for the £6-7m he was always worth.

Yeah I meant young player.

Apparently he has predominantly played as LM or AM for you though (as he did against us when he scored the pen, ahead of Figueroa). I thought he was a LB too. So actually the comparison would be fair. How often has he actually played LB?


Bruce is massively playing to you Hull City fans. He's playing you like Mozart on the violin. This is just one part of it. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bruce threaten his resignation. Pathetic performance.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Brady was never a youth player for Hull City, he was a youth player for Man United, but went straight into our first team.

He cost us £2.5m and since gone on to prove himself a very handy Premier League player.

Comparing the goal scoring records of a left back and an attacking midfield player who also takes free kicks(Snodgrass) is rather pointless.

The stuff about Bruce playing to City fans is nonsense, we all think he's worth £6-7m, we did before anyone bid and we still do now. The things that Bruce has said may reflect our opinion, they certainly didn't create it.

I expect you'll get him, but for the £6-7m he was always worth.

I didn't realise you'd paid £2.5m for him, so with that in mind how on earth anybody could possibly think us tabling a bid of a lower value than what they had paid, after he'd had a couple of good seasons in the top flight and breaking into and establishing himself the Ireland squad is anything other than derisory I just don't understand.

And as for people using the fact that nobody else has gazumped us to suggest that's he's perhaps not all that - how do you know that there haven't been other bids and that Hull have merely been quiet about them?

 

[originallambrettaman]

I didn't realise you'd paid £2.5m for him, so with that in mind how on earth anybody could possibly think us tabling a bid of a lower value than what they had paid, after he'd had a couple of good seasons in the top flight and breaking into and establishing himself the Ireland squad is anything other than derisory I just don't understand.

Exactly.

 

[Canary Rob]

I didn't realise you'd paid £2.5m for him, so with that in mind how on earth anybody could possibly think us tabling a bid of a lower value than what they had paid, after he'd had a couple of good seasons in the top flight and breaking into and establishing himself the Ireland squad is anything other than derisory I just don't understand.

Slight exaggeration - Hull paid £1.75m for him (if we're comparing the like-for-like fees). The £2.5m total was with add-ons.

But players can go down in value you know?! I'm not saying Brady has (although the much-maligned transfermarkt seems to think he has !) but he was injured for large parts of last season, which must hurt his value a little.

And as for people using the fact that nobody else has gazumped us to suggest that's he's perhaps not all that - how do you know that there haven't been other bids and that Hull have merely been quiet about them?

True - though it seems very unlikely they'd be too bothered about our "derisory" bid if there had been other bids...



I am surprised that you would believe McNally/the club would be so unprofessional as to throw derisory bids willy-nilly Munky, but fair enough we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Yeah I meant young player.

Apparently he has predominantly played as LM or AM for you though (as he did against us when he scored the pen, ahead of Figueroa). I thought he was a LB too. So actually the comparison would be fair. How often has he actually played LB?


Bruce is massively playing to you Hull City fans. He's playing you like Mozart on the violin. This is just one part of it. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bruce threaten his resignation. Pathetic performance.

He payed almost every game last season as a left wing back in a 3-5-2, only playing left wing when we chasing games and switched to a 4-4-2, which was far too late in games to be effective(Bruce made a right mess of our formations last season).

In previous seasons he did play some of the games at left back and some on the left wing, with a couple of appearances as a second striker, but that was only really because of injuries and a lack of other options.

Bruce is about the most honest and straightforward manager in English football, **** at formations and having a plan B, but at least he's always honest about it.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Slight exaggeration - Hull paid £1.75m for him (if we're comparing the like-for-like fees). The £2.5m total was with add-ons.

But players can go down in value you know?! I'm not saying Brady has (although the much-maligned transfermarkt seems to think he has !) but he was injured for large parts of last season, which must hurt his value a little..

It was £2.5m if we were promoted, which we were, so it was £2.5m.

He was injured for a while, but not for a large part of the season, he still made 32 appearances for us.

 

[Canary Rob]

He payed almost every game last season as a left wing back in a 3-5-2, only playing left wing when we chasing games and switched to a 4-4-2, which was far too late in games to be effective(Bruce made a right mess of our formations last season).

In previous seasons he did play some of the games at left back and some on the left wing, with a couple of appearances as a second striker, but that was only really because of injuries and a lack of other options.

Bruce is about the most honest and straightforward manager in English football, **** at formations and having a plan B, but at least he's always honest about it.

Thanks - that makes more sense.

Bruce is wilier than people give him credit for. I don't disbelieve for a minute that £2m was the bid and I also accept that Bruce did not like the thought of only getting £2m for Brady. I accept he thinks he's being honest - but it's without a doubt misleading, because £2m isn't the true representation of the value of the whole bid - do you know whether it included any write-off of the debt still owed for Snodgrass, as has been rumoured too? I don't. Apparently that might be worth as much as £3m, though I think that sounds unlikely although I have no idea. That could mean that the total value of the transfer offer would be nearer to £5m! But Bruce only sees £2m of it so as far as he is concerned that is derisory. Doesn't alter the fact that he is being misleading.

So you see I think making a statement like that is unnecessary. Either give us all the details so we can come to our own view of whether it is derisory, or shut up until a deal is done or collapsed.

It was £2.5m if we were promoted, which we were, so it was £2.5m.

Exactly. That's my point about the £2m bid - it doesn't represent the whole deal...

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Slight exaggeration - Hull paid £1.75m for him (if we're comparing the like-for-like fees). The £2.5m total was with add-ons.

But players can go down in value you know?! I'm not saying Brady has (although the much-maligned transfermarkt seems to think he has !) but he was injured for large parts of last season, which must hurt his value a little.

Yes, I am aware of that - but are you really saying that is the case with a 23 year old player with Man Utd pedigree, who has just had two solid seasons in the top flight, had some excellent reviews during that time and established himself as a full Ireland international?

I don't think you believe that at all, as you have alluded to, so it's pretty much a meaningless and entirely irrelevant thing to say. Don't know if he missed that much football through injury did he? I think he just slipped right under your radar and you don't know much about him, though I think you will be very pleasantly surprised if and when we do sign him. I think he's got a lot of potential and will be worth far more than Snodgrass was ever worth by the time he reaches his peak. I personally rated him highly enough to have him in my Fantasy Premier League team for quite a lot of last season so I would be well chuffed if he does become a Canary

 

[originallambrettaman]

Thanks - that makes more sense.

Bruce is wilier than people give him credit for. I don't disbelieve for a minute that £2m was the bid and I also accept that Bruce did not like the thought of only getting £2m for Brady. I accept he thinks he's being honest - but it's without a doubt misleading, because £2m isn't the true representation of the value of the whole bid - do you know whether it included any write-off of the debt still owed for Snodgrass, as has been rumoured too? I don't. Apparently that might be worth as much as £3m, though I think that sounds unlikely although I have no idea. That could mean that the total value of the transfer offer would be nearer to £5m! But Bruce only sees £2m of it so as far as he is concerned that is derisory. Doesn't alter the fact that he is being misleading.

So you see I think making a statement like that is unnecessary. Either give us all the details so we can come to our own view of whether it is derisory, or shut up until a deal is done or collapsed.



Exactly. That's my point about the £2m bid - it doesn't represent the whole deal...

You agree a fee for a player and then sort the payment terms, you don't bid £2m for a player and then claim it's because that club already owes you a few million. Obviously any outstanding payments for Snodgrass would be written off against a fee Brady, but that's separate to the valuation of the player.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Not a joke Rob because I fully agree with you. My mistake for forgetting him. Just a little bit less depressed than I was!!

We actually have 5 options for 2 places at CB, 3 options for RB (including EB), and two at LB as well as Whittaker and Miquel who can also play there, so it isn't panic stations. I think we will get another CB in and Brady or another option at LB. Even in the relegation year, our defense kept Man City and Spurs scoreless at CR and Chelsea scoreless at Stamford Bridge. There's room for improvement certainly, but no reason to panic, IMO.

 

[1950canary]

I don't care about transfermarket, value of Snodgrass, etiquette of Steve Bruce etc etc. All I know is that Brady is a current International, has 2 years experience in the Premier League, is 23 years old and can play at LB or left midfield both of which we need as desperately as we need to get a good start to the campaign with a settled team. FFS, DM, give them £6m ,sign him up and get him on a plane to Austria.

 

[canary-dave]

I don't care about transfermarket, value of Snodgrass, etiquette of Steve Bruce etc etc. All I know is that Brady is a current International, has 2 years experience in the Premier League, is 23 years old and can play at LB or left midfield both of which we need as desperately as we need to get a good start to the campaign with a settled team. FFS, DM, give them £6m ,sign him up and get him on a plane to Austria.

According to "gentleman" Steve Bruce (spit) we've offered £6M and been knocked back! I really hope we don't get him, this whole saga is an embarrassment!

 

[RiverEndRick]

I don't care about transfermarket, value of Snodgrass, etiquette of Steve Bruce etc etc. All I know is that Brady is a current International, has 2 years experience in the Premier League, is 23 years old and can play at LB or left midfield both of which we need as desperately as we need to get a good start to the campaign with a settled team. FFS, DM, give them £6m ,sign him up and get him on a plane to Austria.

What? You're relegating him to the U21 Development squad? The senior squad is in Germany!

 

[Canary Rob]

Yes, I am aware of that - but are you really saying that is the case with a 23 year old player with Man Utd pedigree, who has just had two solid seasons in the top flight, had some excellent reviews during that time and established himself as a full Ireland international?

I don't think you believe that at all, as you have alluded to, so it's pretty much a meaningless and entirely irrelevant thing to say. Don't know if he missed that much football through injury did he? I think he just slipped right under your radar and you don't know much about him, though I think you will be very pleasantly surprised if and when we do sign him. I think he's got a lot of potential and will be worth far more than Snodgrass was ever worth by the time he reaches his peak. I personally rated him highly enough to have him in my Fantasy Premier League team for quite a lot of last season so I would be well chuffed if he does become a Canary

I think it could be the case that his value hasn't changed much. He made it into the Ireland team before signing for Hull. He only managed 16 appearances in his first season for Hull, so I don't think you can really call it "two solid seasons" either, although I accept it's a bit of a moot point.

I don't disagree with you that he didn't really feature on my radar until this summer, but I think you're overplaying me underrating him - I said earlier I thought £4-5m is a reasonable price for him, which I think accurately reflects everything you say. That's not conceptually that different from your £6m for him. I just think that's paying 20% over the odds for a player who is still not proven.

He may well have a hell of a lot more potential than Snodgrass (indeed I agree with you from what I've heard since), but he's got to realise that potential. The fact is that Snodgrass had actually realised that potential by the time we sold him, was at peak level. It's a real shame for Hull that he got injured, but you didn't need to weigh down his price with the risk that he might not come good - I think we all knew that we had the measure of Snodgrass. By contrast, Brady's still relatively early in his career. And whatever you say it is material that there is seemingly very little interest elsewhere.

And even if we do pay £7m or whatever for him and go on to sell him for £20m, we will still have taken the £7m risk on him and that is the plunge you're taking.

 

[RiverEndRick]

I'd be very disappointed if we paid over £6m including add ons. Brady isn't a one and only by any means.

 

[Canary Rob]

I also think we're approaching it at totally different angles Munky. You'd be absolutely right if Brady was on a long term contract, but I simply will not be persuaded that our club didn't open with a commercially appropriate (albeit cosmetically unattractive and actually unacceptable) bid. To do so would be counter-productive and jars strongly with all the professionalism that our club has showed since the threat of administration. So I'm going to frame my judgement of these rumours on that basis.

Name one other bid where we have mucked the other club around recently? Generally speaking, I think we've negotiated sensibly and there has been commercial wisdom - I would say we've erred on the side of paying generously for the likes of Howson, Snodgrass, Pilks, Bennetts, Andreu, Miquel and even in relation to Neil himself. The only transfer where we behaved a bit oddly was with RvW, but that was because we stole a march by paying cash early, up front to a club in dire need (and ended up with a dud anyway...)

If you behave like twats in negotiations, you tend to fall short. I sincerely doubt we are behaving as badly as Bruce is so keen to paint because we haven't done it before and it doesn't fit in with our ethos over the last five years. I also think there is more to the bids than meets the eye - I will repeat again that Hull allegedly still owe us a large chunk of the Snodgrass fee and that there was a rumour it formed part of the Brady bid consideration.