It wasn't long ago that anything over £30mill was big money. Now £30mill is bargain basement.
Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread
- Thread starter Bozz
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It wasn't long ago that anything over £30mill was big money. Now £30mill is bargain basement.
I agree with all this.
There is no doubt that Hendo is a better captain. Obviously Gerrard is the better player.
Gerrard was a 'I'll get us out of this mess' type cpt
Hendo is a 'We'll get out of this mess' cpt
not actually so sure.
2005 sure he did that but I'll be honest, I view Gerrard as a player who could drop the head at times. you could tell at the end of Rafa and then Hodgson
my view of captains is simple enough.
they are there to do a few off field duties and milner does more than Henderson tbh.
Once that's done the players on the park all need to lead.and demand not just one.
Robertson is doing it for us.
where is salah, vvd, etc etc etc in the past games.
this is why I like seeing nunez drive, konate aggression, even keita ****housing. trent is even trying a bit
I have always had doubts how much the named captain has any importance at all.
Obviously there needs to be leaders on the field, but they don't have to necessarily be named captain
Obviously there needs to be leaders on the field, but they don't have to necessarily be named captain
Agree totally with this.
Back in the glory days of Fergie we had many captains (leaders) on the pitch. Keane was the one that wore the armband but in reality players like Nev, Giggs, Smich, Ferdinand, Vidic and Scholes all gave out (and received) bollockings to other players and told others (or were told by others) they weren't doing their job.
I'm sorry but I simply cannot accept that Henderson is a better captain than Gerrard.
Put it this way - if you swap the teams that Hendo and Stevie played in, would we have achieved the same success?
There is no doubt that we would have won the lot if Stevie was in the Klopp team, but there is no way we win the CL, FA Cup, League cup etc if Hendo was in the team instead of Gerrard.
If Hendo is such an important leader, why do we look sh*t now? We were constantly told that he (and Milner) would never let standards drop. If you want to give him credit for our recent success, then he has to take the blame for our current plight. It seems his leadership abilities are dependant on the world class players around him performing. Before quality players joined us, we were losing games under his captaincy. Then we signed some very very good players, and we start winning games.
There is no doubt that he is an ultimate professional and ambassador for the club. In his 'prime', he was a very solid squad player who suited the system.
Put it this way - if you swap the teams that Hendo and Stevie played in, would we have achieved the same success?
There is no doubt that we would have won the lot if Stevie was in the Klopp team, but there is no way we win the CL, FA Cup, League cup etc if Hendo was in the team instead of Gerrard.
If Hendo is such an important leader, why do we look sh*t now? We were constantly told that he (and Milner) would never let standards drop. If you want to give him credit for our recent success, then he has to take the blame for our current plight. It seems his leadership abilities are dependant on the world class players around him performing. Before quality players joined us, we were losing games under his captaincy. Then we signed some very very good players, and we start winning games.
There is no doubt that he is an ultimate professional and ambassador for the club. In his 'prime', he was a very solid squad player who suited the system.
those are different points i think
take Gerrard out of rafa's team and you are not swapping captain. you are taking a no 10 out of the team and putting in a different player totally
thats a talent question.
we are talking captains.
i am convinced that had hyypia not had captain taken off him and handed to Gerrard there would be absolutely no difference to anything.
if we dropped a prime Gerrard into klopps team instead of Henderson then of course it helps lfc due to pure talent l.
we might debate whether windy gets in ahead of Henderson then.
again would Gerrard as captain under klopp make a difference, I don't think he would make a huge pile of difference there at all.
we need to go back to the captains job os off the park not on it.
it's daily standards setting and helping enforce discipline and then handing out tickets etc.
Henderson and milner have Done that off the park stuff and our success has been great.
on the park there's nobody who'd take a prime Henderson over a prime Gerrard I'm fairly confident of that.
but as I said Gerrard looked at one of point that he'd given up under rafa and Hodgson at times. that's why I think the comment on carragher was valid but also alonso and hyypia and kiyt etc. they set the standards too.
today lfc have some quiet people and some standard setters but I'm not sure there's enough on the park leaders.
salah off the park seems an excellent influence. thaigo seems an excellent senior leader. bit on the park? no way.
Where is the discipline and off field leadership this season then?
who's be done for what? I believe milner hand'es to player fines and nailed Bajcetic for a phone issue that the leads set him up with toi teach him a lesson. They have their own means of enforcing discipline.
I believe there's no difference in off filed discipline or commitment from the players this season than any other. nobody is later, no issues of in fighting etc etc.
IMO the fitness is massively lacking and klopp and kornmayer have big questions to answer as to why we look so poor compared to other sides in our ability to get around the park.
Leadership off the park can't be faulted.
Legs on the park, massive at fault.
Coaching and prep, massively in question.
Transfer policy, no even in question any more its not acceptable.
I'm sure we can agree on these?
Gerrard was a quality player that lead by example, but wasn't a great captain. He couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Carragher was the organiser.
- May 22, 2011
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The captain off the pitch stuff is something that none of us as fans can really comment on as we have no idea what happens during training/down time where they may have an influence.
On the pitch, doesn’t mean an awful lot. You need strong characters all over the pitch. Looking at our team atm, do seem like slightly lacking that.
On the pitch, doesn’t mean an awful lot. You need strong characters all over the pitch. Looking at our team atm, do seem like slightly lacking that.
100% Hendo and Milner are really good professionals behind the scenes. You want these characters in and around the squad.
I just feel that their 'impact' is hugely exaggerated, whilst their poor on pitch performances are always completely ignored.
But enough about Hendo, why the hell have we not signed a midfielder yet??
- May 22, 2011
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I don’t think poor performances are ignored. I think this season specifically Hendo has been called out a lot. Milner hasn’t been too bad, was ok v wolves at RB. Got roasted at Chelsea though.
Just so many players out of form this season that everyone has spread the criticism around.
I think that when we're performing badly all fans are looking for reasons, and we tend to settle on those players who are our least favourites, but I think it's more complex than that. In the end I think we just have to get behind the team.
I want all of our players to succeed because the success of the team is more important than me having my opinion of individuals vindicated.
LFC next year:
Alisson
Trent
Konate
VVD? (we actually need to start questioning this as vvd will be 32 next summer and we cannot keep expecting to play a certain way, how do we get a thiago silva level from him???)
Robertson will be 29 in march.
Bajcetic no 6.
LCM? can't make so any more
RCM? can't make do any more
LW Diaz, gakpo. We just need to back them now
CF Nunez. Jota
RW salah elliott. We need to back elliott here.
the system of play demands change now. VVD age demands a change in emphasis. Sala age and speed demands this.
A high line on its own might save the legs but we have to close down on the passes over the top. this is what compactness really means imo. Yes win it back but in the absence of this stop people having easy switch ball and over the top passes as most prem level players can pick those passes all day.
Against brighton we were destroyed by long passes to their speedy LW and by big switches over to the right where there was acres of space. No pressure on the pass means it will go where its intended.
IMO our focus has to be closing down well up top and hitting the first midfielders (against brighton thaigo was asked to do this and he never got close to anyone, he has two to go at and picked neither so was always in no mans land.)
I think we are at the point where a 4231 might start to suite us more than 433. no firmino, no mane, salah legs gone. no midfield pivots.
We could drop to 451 very quickly in 4231 and we could have enough in two DMS to help vvd out.
Alisson
Trent
Konate
VVD? (we actually need to start questioning this as vvd will be 32 next summer and we cannot keep expecting to play a certain way, how do we get a thiago silva level from him???)
Robertson will be 29 in march.
Bajcetic no 6.
LCM? can't make so any more
RCM? can't make do any more
LW Diaz, gakpo. We just need to back them now
CF Nunez. Jota
RW salah elliott. We need to back elliott here.
the system of play demands change now. VVD age demands a change in emphasis. Sala age and speed demands this.
A high line on its own might save the legs but we have to close down on the passes over the top. this is what compactness really means imo. Yes win it back but in the absence of this stop people having easy switch ball and over the top passes as most prem level players can pick those passes all day.
Against brighton we were destroyed by long passes to their speedy LW and by big switches over to the right where there was acres of space. No pressure on the pass means it will go where its intended.
IMO our focus has to be closing down well up top and hitting the first midfielders (against brighton thaigo was asked to do this and he never got close to anyone, he has two to go at and picked neither so was always in no mans land.)
I think we are at the point where a 4231 might start to suite us more than 433. no firmino, no mane, salah legs gone. no midfield pivots.
We could drop to 451 very quickly in 4231 and we could have enough in two DMS to help vvd out.
we are recalling rhys williams frm blackpool.
he's played a reasonable amount of games at black pool but since turn of year they have benched him but played ****e themselves.
the echo is reporting the same old bargain basement clubs are coming in for the great ant phillips and want to take him so our solution is to take back in the slow kid to replace the slow adult as CB no 5 in the squad.
This is of course a requirement to meet the HG club trained quota for the CL squad. Williams comes in just to be an unused option.
he's played a reasonable amount of games at black pool but since turn of year they have benched him but played ****e themselves.
the echo is reporting the same old bargain basement clubs are coming in for the great ant phillips and want to take him so our solution is to take back in the slow kid to replace the slow adult as CB no 5 in the squad.
This is of course a requirement to meet the HG club trained quota for the CL squad. Williams comes in just to be an unused option.
I don't think anyone is trying to say Hendo is a better footballer than Stevie. Henderson hasn't even been top three best players at the club for most of his tenure... there's always been star players who are better than him.
Do you remember the Roy Hodgson era? We were even worse then and Gerrard was captain!
If you're making the point that Gerrard was a much better footballers than Henderson, I'm 100% with you. Gerrard was a generational talent! That's not the same thing as best captain. I think being a good player and a first team player is important to being captain, but its not the only thing. I do think Hendo has been a very solid player for us for most of his years.
I'm not even talking about their ability. Swap the teams that they played in and do we achieve the same results? Does Hendo's leadership help us win the CL in 05, and also the FA Cup and League Cup? Does he raise the standards amongst the team?
My point is that Hendo's successful 'leadership' period coincides when we signed some seriously world class players who transformed our team.