Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I'm not sure what i stand on the youth vs opportunity argument.

Sure, youth players look talented and years gone by, there were far more youth players being 'developed' or for a better word getting game time. How much of it is to do with getting game experience and playing at a higher level to actually having the correct talent and having the right work ethic?

Back in the 80s/90s and to a certain extent the 00s, there were more youth prospects at the higher clubs but nowadays the game is far more global and there is a lot more talent that can just be recruited and the PL clubs have the necessary spending money. If a player is talented enough, they will get game time and progress to the next level even if they haven't played for their first team.

See Suso, KDB, Sterling etc.

The ones that fall behind are the ones that stay and don't get played like Bertrand.

When you see the likes of Theo, Gibbs, Ramsay, Wilshire (maybe a bit harsh as there all injury prone?) and for all their 'Talents', none of them are more than top 4 squad players and haven't really developed into these superstars that the teams challenging for the top really want. Same for all the talents i have listed before. Is that because they don't get the time to play with "world class" talent or because actually, they just aren't good enough to play at the top?

I think game time is only a small factor as players can still go on loan and i don't necessarily think playing in a bad team is that much of a hindrance. The other thing is do players naturally get better with age as they mature and aren't as rash and hot headed and have bodies developed properly. I certainly think it plays a part

and yet when we argued about some kid at rangers going to chelsea the argument was take the money. I said then play your football and develop but i was told take the money.

IMO if a guy like alli can deveop well enough at mk dons and grab his chance you have to see that the 60 odd games he played there enbaled him leap forg a lot of young lads at spurs.

same for eric dier. he played a lot for sporting b and then sporting before retuning to spurs

IMO the pattern is clear... get the 50-100 games under your belt before taking the cash. those games will harden a kid and enable them step up when that chance comes. all too many times games pass a youngster by as they just struggle to get to pace of game

 

[BobbyD]

and yet when we argued about some kid at rangers going to chelsea the argument was take the money. I said then play your football and develop but i was told take the money.

IMO if a guy like alli can deveop well enough at mk dons and grab his chance you have to see that the 60 odd games he played there enbaled him leap forg a lot of young lads at spurs.

same for eric dier. he played a lot for sporting b and then sporting before retuning to spurs

IMO the pattern is clear... get the 50-100 games under your belt before taking the cash. those games will harden a kid and enable them step up when that chance comes. all too many times games pass a youngster by as they just struggle to get to pace of game

Lol, i would definitely advocate taking the money and going out on loan if you don't break into the team . Take the money now as you don't know if you will make it.

However, i do acknowledge that you would have more chance of making it and developing better by playing games in the first team (although i mention i'm not sure how much more development you get, but then again i was never a pro).

The way i see it (obviously, different mental attitudes + talent has a say) but i give the top acadamy players a a 5% of making it big in either the PL or Championship (against other acadamy players, against foreign recruits, against existing players lasting a longer time)

If you can go make a tonne of money now or stay with the existing club so i can develop and that boosts their chance to 8%, i would tell them to take the money

 

[BobbyD]

and yet when we argued about some kid at rangers going to chelsea the argument was take the money. I said then play your football and develop but i was told take the money.

IMO if a guy like alli can deveop well enough at mk dons and grab his chance you have to see that the 60 odd games he played there enbaled him leap forg a lot of young lads at spurs.

same for eric dier. he played a lot for sporting b and then sporting before retuning to spurs

IMO the pattern is clear... get the 50-100 games under your belt before taking the cash. those games will harden a kid and enable them step up when that chance comes. all too many times games pass a youngster by as they just struggle to get to pace of game

Those are 2 examples of people in the lower reaches, how many of those have fallen by the wayside?

I could give you 2 examples of players who took the money and have done alright since, thorgan hazard, lukaku, bale

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

that is true of course... but 2 of them are 10mil players also.

in the end guys with 50-100 games under their belt and experience are rated differently than a kid who hasn't a clue... and they are trusted more by managers


I think we all need to realise managers work by the you are only ever 3 games from a crisis rule.

they need to trust the 11 sent out... it takes a brave manager to pick kids and get them the experience.

IMO the real issue is lack of b teams where experience can be really gotten

So you're in favour of bringing in B teams into the football league? ...

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

True.

Money talks and it's quite definitely [and deafeningly] telling us now, now, now.

Those are 2 examples of people in the lower reaches, how many of those have fallen by the wayside?

I could give you 2 examples of players who took the money and have done alright since, thorgan hazard, lukaku, bale

ah but you forget one thing... those 2 are the two who got the offer. how many don't get the offer....

also now hang on...

I might grant thorgan maybe given he only played a limited number of game before joining you but

Lucky... he had 70 od games and a good scoring reoced under his belt before joining YOU! thats actually supporting my point

and Bale... he had 40 odd games at southapton, his home club before he moved. Had he not had those and a lucky break he might have got nowhere at spurs. he was on his way out as a failed LB!!! and he HAD the experience.

There always luck and timing involved sure BUT my point on gaining hard senior team experience IMO is well made and any kid should have that not **** about u23 action .

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

So you're in favour of bringing in B teams into the football league? ...

100%

I find the arguement against it spurious. Its highly likely that teams woudl end up having higher crowds in league 1 playing v us than other teams.

 

[BobbyD]

ah but you forget one thing... those 2 are the two who got the offer. how many don't get the offer....

also now hang on...

I might grant thorgan maybe given he only played a limited number of game before joining you but

Lucky... he had 70 od games and a good scoring reoced under his belt before joining YOU! thats actually supporting my point

and Bale... he had 40 odd games at southapton, his home club before he moved. Had he not had those and a lucky break he might have got nowhere at spurs. he was on his way out as a failed LB!!! and he HAD the experience.

There always luck and timing involved sure BUT my point on gaining hard senior team experience IMO is well made and any kid should have that not **** about u23 action .

Doesn't that help my argument, most of the kids never get the call and they will never reach the 5 figure weekly pay. Even if you get the call once, how often do you get the call again?

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Sold Torres & Babel. Bought Carroll & Suarez

A star for a star and a total dud for a total dud.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

So you are happy for Klopp to back down then, is your defence really that poor that you feel nobody else will want to join it?

Without knowing everything Klopp knows (perhaps there was more to it) it was ridiculous for Klopp to send him off on loan. Unless he was disrupting squad Dynamics why loan out one of your best defenders.

Sure he's a doofus and maybe he wants to sell him. But we shot ourselves in the foot by not getting in anyone better and failing to use the resource we had.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Doesn't that help my argument, most of the kids never get the call and they will never reach the 5 figure weekly pay. Even if you get the call once, how often do you get the call again?

yeah so.... its like this if peopel are sniffing you should file it under confidence boost and focus on delivering.

The point I made originally was as a father. Its had to explain to a 17 year old that they have 15 years earning to think about. the first 2 might be good and the rest a slot OR you could stick where you are and build those 50 odd ahrd games under your belt and sacfricie that first year or 2 for a really much better 13 later years

If for example Gareth bale had not got 40/50 games under his belt at southampton at the time and moved to spurs, never got a game and ended up plying his trade in league 1 again... well... it could have happened.

spurs spent 7mil on the guy as a kid on the back of his perofmrances

Utd spend 30 on shaw... he had the same some 50 games for saints under his belt too. now his antics seem odd right now but i feel he's got a bit of a downer but clearly he again needed those games for saints to cope initially even thought it was an utter shock in the jump in level

 

[BobbyD]

yeah so.... its like this if peopel are sniffing you should file it under confidence boost and focus on delivering.

The point I made originally was as a father. Its had to explain to a 17 year old that they have 15 years earning to think about. the first 2 might be good and the rest a slot OR you could stick where you are and build those 50 odd ahrd games under your belt and sacfricie that first year or 2 for a really much better 13 later years

If for example Gareth bale had not got 40/50 games under his belt at southampton at the time and moved to spurs, never got a game and ended up plying his trade in league 1 again... well... it could have happened.

spurs spent 7mil on the guy as a kid on the back of his perofmrances

Utd spend 30 on shaw... he had the same some 50 games for saints under his belt too. now his antics seem odd right now but i feel he's got a bit of a downer but clearly he again needed those games for saints to cope initially even thought it was an utter shock in the jump in level

Now you've changed the criteria. As an individual and without getting to know each and every kid, i would say take the money.

If it was my mate/brother/child i would let them know that there is no perfect way and that you can be successful in both. I would give them the pro that you that if you stay at a lower league team, you are more like to develop and break into the first team. I would also give the advice that you might not ever see that money again though so if you are confident enough you should stay and develop.

Would you prefer to be stuck rotting in the academy of a league 1 team or the PL though. It's not a hard choice.

 

[luvgonzo]

Now you've changed the criteria. As an individual and without getting to know each and every kid, i would say take the money.

If it was my mate/brother/child i would let them know that there is no perfect way and that you can be successful in both. I would give them the pro that you that if you stay at a lower league team, you are more like to develop and break into the first team. I would also give the advice that you might not ever see that money again though so if you are confident enough you should stay and develop.

Would you prefer to be stuck rotting in the academy of a league 1 team or the PL though. It's not a hard choice.

It's a short career and if you can earn big money then you take it, Scott Sinclair, the fella at Sunderland? Both didn't get a kick for City but they are both loaded now.

 

[jaffaSlot]

It's a short career and if you can earn big money then you take it, Scott Sinclair, the fella at Sunderland? Both didn't get a kick for City but they are both loaded now.

They could still have earned a crap load and had much much more of a career. Roswell is prime example and will now disappear into the championship

 

[luvgonzo]

They could still have earned a crap load and had much much more of a career. Roswell is prime example and will now disappear into the championship

They could still have earned a crap load and had much much more of a career. Roswell is prime example and will now disappear into the championship

I suppose it depends on how good you think you are.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Now you've changed the criteria. As an individual and without getting to know each and every kid, i would say take the money.

If it was my mate/brother/child i would let them know that there is no perfect way and that you can be successful in both. I would give them the pro that you that if you stay at a lower league team, you are more like to develop and break into the first team. I would also give the advice that you might not ever see that money again though so if you are confident enough you should stay and develop.

Would you prefer to be stuck rotting in the academy of a league 1 team or the PL though. It's not a hard choice.

I specifically said as a father what would you do didn't I?

also the whole point is if you are any good that cheslea want you won't be in any league 1 academy you will be playing first team.

a) insurance

b) work damned hard.

c) leanr the game the hard way.

 

[BobbyD]

I specifically said as a father what would you do didn't I?

also the whole point is if you are any good that cheslea want you won't be in any league 1 academy you will be playing first team.

a) insurance

b) work damned hard.

c) leanr the game the hard way.

I didn't read about the as a father part in the original debate we had. Are you sure you wrote it .

Good enough for the first team? we were talking about 16/17 year olds. How many of those are really starting in the 1st team. I haven't statistics but i don't think there are many. I'm not sure there are many youngsters that have been bought that have broken into the first team for <20 appearances (subjective). Normally they are poached pretty young, or then they move to a big club after around 40 odd appearances.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I didn't read about the as a father part in the original debate we had. Are you sure you wrote it .

Good enough for the first team? we were talking about 16/17 year olds. How many of those are really starting in the 1st team. I haven't statistics but i don't think there are many. I'm not sure there are many youngsters that have been bought that have broken into the first team for <20 appearances (subjective). Normally they are poached pretty young, or then they move to a big club after around 40 odd appearances.

positive... though who i was arguing with who knows.

In league one you'd be surprised. I am not talking about those who are bought but those who are being sought if that makes sense. If they turn up on your radar most all will have played 50 odd games.

look at de bruyne you bought him at what 20/21? played 100 games for genk.

Or wijnaldum for us. he played 100 games for feynoord beofre going to psg he started at 16.

Or lukaku as we talked about

Or edin hazard. he got a good 100 game sin for lille before joining you

or how about your own marcus alonso. he got a good amount of real b games in in spain before going to bolton

In short most of these guys start somewhere and my point is they are far better getting real football under their belt than moving and IMO especially to a foriegn country

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

West Ham are reportedly interested in snapping up Liverpool outcast Lazar Markovic.
Markovic, who joined the Reds from Benfica in 2014 for over £20m, is currently out on loan at Hull.
According to . Slaven Bilic was impressed by his performance in the Hammers' recent 2-1 defeat at the KCOM Stadium.
Bilic is now willing to part with up to £16m to land Markovic, who still has over two years left to run on his contract at Anfield.



Belgian striker Romelu Lukaku is expected to leave Everton this summer (Picture:

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Jurgen Klopp has revealed his admiration for Chelsea target Romelu Lukaku, labelling the unsettled Everton star as a ‘very good striker’.
The Belgian is expected to leave Goodison Park this summer after telling Ronald Koeman he will not be signing a new contract at the club.

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Zlatan Ibrahimovic delivers clear warning to Manchester United after latest draw
Lukaku currently leads the race to win the Golden Boot in the Premier League and has emerged as a target for Chelsea in recent weeks.
And Klopp is under no illusion of the threat Lukaku will pose his Liverpool side ahead of the Merseyside Derby at Anfield on Saturday.
‘I like him, he is a very good striker. I have never thought about players from other teams that we cannot reach,’ Klopp said of 23-year-old Lukaku.


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/31/liverpool-boss-jurgen-klopp-reveals-admiration-for-chelsea-transfer-target-romelu-lukaku-6545524/#ixzz4dMTk2817

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Expect a nice little clear out this summer - £16m for Marko, £20m for sakho for starters. £10m for Moreno?

We'll generate a lot of money from sales but we will have to invest significantly in the squad. We badly need players.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Expect a nice little clear out this summer - £16m for Marko, £20m for sakho for starters. £10m for Moreno?

We'll generate a lot of money from sales but we will have to invest significantly in the squad. We badly need players.

We want 30 for sahko.

I doubt we will get much for moreno but yes we will sell a few.

God knows what soneone will pay for sturridge