Top 4 tussle

[HugoEkitikeN01]

Going to the wire

1. Chelsea- most likely to be champion
2.Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool , Manchester city, Manchester united???
3.Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool , Manchester city, Manchester united???
4.Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool , Manchester city, Manchester united???

There is a need for miracle for anyone else to beat Chelsea to the championship.
Chelsea can afford to drop 6 points, others cannot afford to drop any more points

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The odds right now are the best place to gauge feeling

• Chelsea 1/50
• Tottenham 2/5
• Liverpool 1/2
• Arsenal 1/2
• Man City 4/7
• Man Utd 6/5
• Everton 70/1

This would suggest that despite the many many mancs out there they are not gambling too much on their club getting top 4 which is interesting.


IMO cheslea have this won. they only need to fall over the line as the season progresses and frankly they could easily go for the double without hurting their league chances now.

Tottenham won lots in a row there and then blew it away to city but still look stronger than other sides but they will throw the europa and i think chase top 4 for sure

Arsenal have too much despite their mad manager plus they know they are out of cl already with the draw so will be fully focused on the league

Man city are odd.. they are playing awful but still close but i cna see them being distracted by CL.

Utd are better than city but are reliant on zlatan. They I think won't chanse europa too hard but will continue in that comp longer

So... LFC are dependant on no injuries and keeping an 11 on the pitch.

 

[Zingy]

Can we have another debate about dropping points even though the points were/are never ours to drop in the first place unless we have a points deduction?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Can we have another debate about dropping points even though the points were/are never ours to drop in the first place unless we have a points deduction?

sounds like a plan.

 

[FedLadSonOfAnfield]

We've just had too many draws looking at the stats. Lost the same amount as Chelsea, 3 games, but drawn 6 to their 1.

Last 3 games we got two draws and a loss. That's our worst period of the season so far. If we continue this way we will continue to drop down the table and eventually scrape top 4 or narrowly miss it. It's up to the team to show that this has been an isolated period of bad form over a now recurring pattern and to turn it around. Think it's been kind of inevitable due to the amount of football played over the last 2-3 months and Klopp's stylistic demands on the squad.

Chelsea have always been clear favourites for the title due to their form from the off and lack of CL with the kind of squad they have. As all the teams in the current top 6 (perhaps even further down the table) continue to improve there's no reason to see why a team who miss out on the CL will be the eventual title winners rather than as seemed to be usual in the old days one (or two) team(s) does best in the CL and wins the PL. Those days of two team dominance with us as anomalous runners up in a couple of seasons - Man U / Chelsea | City / Chelsea | Arsenal / Man U - are over and the pack of title chasing teams has got bigger as well as bunched up.

As for us our squad still isn't good enough to win the league for varying reasons ... lack of fitness in some players, lack of ability at the higher level in others, haven't got the head or attitude for it, not enough like for like or near like for like or offer something totally different but still good replacements to replace injured players or players missing due to international football.

Notice Markovic has now been sent to Hull as it hasn't worked out in Lisbon. He's one we need to get rid of asap. Never gonna make it with us this lad, simply not the desired quality for a true title challenge.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

We've just had too many draws looking at the stats. Lost the same amount as Chelsea, 3 games, but drawn 6 to their 1.

Last 3 games we got two draws and a loss. That's our worst period of the season so far. If we continue this way we will continue to drop down the table and eventually scrape top 4 or narrowly miss it. It's up to the team to show that this has been an isolated period of bad form over a now recurring pattern and to turn it around. Think it's been kind of inevitable due to the amount of football played over the last 2-3 months and Klopp's stylistic demands on the squad.

Chelsea have always been clear favourites for the title due to their form from the off and lack of CL with the kind of squad they have. As all the teams in the current top 6 (perhaps even further down the table) continue to improve there's no reason to see why a team who miss out on the CL will be the eventual title winners rather than as seemed to be usual in the old days one (or two) team(s) does best in the CL and wins the PL. Those days of two team dominance with us as anomalous runners up in a couple of seasons - Man U / Chelsea | City / Chelsea | Arsenal / Man U - are over and the pack of title chasing teams has got bigger as well as bunched up.

As for us our squad still isn't good enough to win the league for varying reasons ... lack of fitness in some players, lack of ability at the higher level in others, haven't got the head or attitude for it, not enough like for like or near like for like or offer something totally different but still good replacements to replace injured players or players missing due to international football.

Notice Markovic has now been sent to Hull as it hasn't worked out in Lisbon. He's one we need to get rid of asap. Never gonna make it with us this lad, simply not the desired quality for a true title challenge.

IMO our draws need to be set in context.

1-1 v spurs away
0-0 v utd home
0-0 v southampton away
2-2 v west ham home (most dissappointing one)
2-2 v sunderland away (a joke)
1-1 v utd away

now... 4 of those are not at all bad results

the losses we have suffered some might sawy were poor to lose and had we won those and lost v the better sides it'd make more sense... but.... we've done well


Did you know as of today LFC have had a better first 22 games than in 2013/14 and we are only 2 points worse than 2008/09.

As of now the future is ours to make and how we react is what is important. players have to react to their results and push on now. They can't change what we did but they can change what we will do from here on in.

 

[FedLadSonOfAnfield]

IMO our draws need to be set in context.

1-1 v spurs away
0-0 v utd home
0-0 v southampton away
2-2 v west ham home (most dissappointing one)
2-2 v sunderland away (a joke)
1-1 v utd away

now... 4 of those are not at all bad results

the losses we have suffered some might sawy were poor to lose and had we won those and lost v the better sides it'd make more sense... but.... we've done well


Did you know as of today LFC have had a better first 22 games than in 2013/14 and we are only 2 points worse than 2008/09.

As of now the future is ours to make and how we react is what is important. players have to react to their results and push on now. They can't change what we did but they can change what we will do from here on in.

I mean, you can search for context all you want but it'll still be 6 draws to 1. Not enough to win the league. The team just has to be better, even for an apologist like you. Any form of looking at statistics from past seasons is fairly useless as it's not now. If we want that PL title we haven't done well. The team is failing both statistically and physically in front of our eyes.

 

[carlthejackal]

We've just had too many draws looking at the stats. Lost the same amount as Chelsea, 3 games, but drawn 6 to their 1.

Last 3 games we got two draws and a loss. That's our worst period of the season so far. If we continue this way we will continue to drop down the table and eventually scrape top 4 or narrowly miss it. It's up to the team to show that this has been an isolated period of bad form over a now recurring pattern and to turn it around. Think it's been kind of inevitable due to the amount of football played over the last 2-3 months and Klopp's stylistic demands on the squad.

Chelsea have always been clear favourites for the title due to their form from the off and lack of CL with the kind of squad they have. As all the teams in the current top 6 (perhaps even further down the table) continue to improve there's no reason to see why a team who miss out on the CL will be the eventual title winners rather than as seemed to be usual in the old days one (or two) team(s) does best in the CL and wins the PL. Those days of two team dominance with us as anomalous runners up in a couple of seasons - Man U / Chelsea | City / Chelsea | Arsenal / Man U - are over and the pack of title chasing teams has got bigger as well as bunched up.

As for us our squad still isn't good enough to win the league for varying reasons ... lack of fitness in some players, lack of ability at the higher level in others, haven't got the head or attitude for it, not enough like for like or near like for like or offer something totally different but still good replacements to replace injured players or players missing due to international football.

Notice Markovic has now been sent to Hull as it hasn't worked out in Lisbon. He's one we need to get rid of asap. Never gonna make it with us this lad, simply not the desired quality for a true title challenge.

Right at the beginning of the season, I said that Chelsea will be the key clear challengers for the title (because like us they don't have European football).

It is clear to me that our first 11 team is among the best if not the best. But the premiership race is a squad game. It has now been confirmed that our squad or second string is the weakest.

We are really going through a very bad patch at the moment. Going with MITO's group of 4 results, the last gp4 could be disastrous with us only winning 4 or less points when we needed about 9 on average to challenge for the title and about 8 to stay in top 4.

We urgently need to regroup and halt this trend of no league wins. We still have an outstanding chance of CL football but Klopp is right to crack the whip now.

 

[BobbyD]

We've just had too many draws looking at the stats. Lost the same amount as Chelsea, 3 games, but drawn 6 to their 1.

Last 3 games we got two draws and a loss. That's our worst period of the season so far. If we continue this way we will continue to drop down the table and eventually scrape top 4 or narrowly miss it. It's up to the team to show that this has been an isolated period of bad form over a now recurring pattern and to turn it around. Think it's been kind of inevitable due to the amount of football played over the last 2-3 months and Klopp's stylistic demands on the squad.

Chelsea have always been clear favourites for the title due to their form from the off and lack of CL with the kind of squad they have. As all the teams in the current top 6 (perhaps even further down the table) continue to improve there's no reason to see why a team who miss out on the CL will be the eventual title winners rather than as seemed to be usual in the old days one (or two) team(s) does best in the CL and wins the PL. Those days of two team dominance with us as anomalous runners up in a couple of seasons - Man U / Chelsea | City / Chelsea | Arsenal / Man U - are over and the pack of title chasing teams has got bigger as well as bunched up.

As for us our squad still isn't good enough to win the league for varying reasons ... lack of fitness in some players, lack of ability at the higher level in others, haven't got the head or attitude for it, not enough like for like or near like for like or offer something totally different but still good replacements to replace injured players or players missing due to international football.

Notice Markovic has now been sent to Hull as it hasn't worked out in Lisbon. He's one we need to get rid of asap. Never gonna make it with us this lad, simply not the desired quality for a true title challenge.

Going to have to disagree with this lad. main points:

1. Chelsea were not favourites at the start of the season and we hit our "rocky form" early in the season. Before the season started the overwhelming favourites were the two mancs because of the signing of Pep and all the money both clubs had spent. Chelsea had pretty much the same squad and no one expected anything from them. Then the season began, we drew to swans, got whooped by you and arsenal and Conte was odds on to be sacked at one point so no idea where you got our early form making us favourites from.

2. I don't think a lack of european football means you are favourites for the title. It's only been this year and last year that a team with no europe were title winners/challengers and in 2013/2014 with Liverpool. Thats too short a time span, even then Chelsea won it the year before, City won it the year before that and United won the year before that. It's definitely helpful but in no way does that automatically mean that they will be the eventual title winners.

3. Shame about markovic, i thought he'd be good for you guys as he was pretty good at benfica. For whatever reasons, the lad just hasnt made it.

I don't know what is going on with your team. Earlier in the season you guys looked brilliant. Mane for me is the biggest loss for you guys as he literally frightens defenders by his pace and dribbling ability. He's also got a pretty impressive workrate. I think you need to improve your defence as theres no way Klavan or Lovren should be first choice. Also think you should bring in a WC keeper if you could. I think Jo hart who is not quite wc but better than either of your keepers would be a good fit.

 

[BobbyD]

Right at the beginning of the season, I said that Chelsea will be the key clear challengers for the title (because like us they don't have European football).

It is clear to me that our first 11 team is among the best if not the best. But the premiership race is a squad game. It has now been confirmed that our squad or second string is the weakest.

We are really going through a very bad patch at the moment. Going with MITO's group of 4 results, the last gp4 could be disastrous with us only winning 4 or less points when we needed about 9 on average to challenge for the title and about 8 to stay in top 4.

We urgently need to regroup and halt this trend of no league wins. We still have an outstanding chance of CL football but Klopp is right to crack the whip now.

It's really odd because on paper, i don't think your attacking second string is that bad. Origi, Can, Sturridge, Sahko, Lucas aren't the worse, especially Origi and Sturridge.

For whatever reason though, the balance looks all wrong when they come in and you aren't playing with that same style where you were overwhelming your opponents AND creating loads of chances.

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

Antonio Conte is a likely man if he can win the championship in his first year. Most of the team are from José Mourinho.era.
José Mourinho lost their respect and Antonio Conte earned their respect.

 

[carlthejackal]

It's really odd because on paper, i don't think your attacking second string is that bad. Origi, Can, Sturridge, Sahko, Lucas aren't the worse, especially Origi and Sturridge.

For whatever reason though, the balance looks all wrong when they come in and you aren't playing with that same style where you were overwhelming your opponents AND creating loads of chances.

Shows lad that football is not played on paper. The first team can sustain one or two squad players but more than that the team's effectiveness is affected.

 

[FedLadSonOfAnfield]

OK time to look at the senior squad for the last few

Goalkeepers

1. Loris Karius - decent but still big ??
22. Simon Mignolet - decent but still big ??
13. Alex Manninger - basically a coach
– Adam Bogdan - eurgh need we say anything

Defenders

2. Nathaniel Clyne - bad couple of games but generally solid if not exceptional, what does he really do?
6. Dejan Lovren - eurgh not good enough
32. Joel Matip - FIFA issues
17. Ragnar Klavan - started well but maybe limitations being found out
21. Lucas Leiva - odd job man
12. Joe Gomez - young, injured or just back from injury
18. Alberto Moreno - eurgh not good enough
7. James Milner - slightly injured & maybe burned out in last games

Midfielders

5. Georginio Wijnaldum - decent but kinda anonymous, hasn't done anything majorly wrong but hasn't done anything majorly right
14. Jordan Henderson - bad couple of games, not that great generally
16. Marko Grujic - who he ??
20. Adam Lallana - thrived in front 3, dived since Mane left
23. Emre Can - eurgh, more we see him the less capable he seems every time
35. Kevin Stewart - non-entity

Attacking Midfielders

10. Philippe Coutinho - fluctuating player, capable of great brilliance, does it once a month
19. Sadio Mane - africa bro
54. Sheyi Ojo - non-entity, no experience

Forwards

11. Roberto Firmino - has been great but prone to off days more than you'd like in one of your main FWs
15. Daniel Sturridge - disappeared, probably wants to leave, we want him to leave
27. Divock Origi - more the season goes on the worse he gets
28. Danny Ings - non-entity

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I mean, you can search for context all you want but it'll still be 6 draws to 1. Not enough to win the league. The team just has to be better, even for an apologist like you. Any form of looking at statistics from past seasons is fairly useless as it's not now. If we want that PL title we haven't done well. The team is failing both statistically and physically in front of our eyes.

yeah so?

what cheslea have done is their business.

they lost to us, tottenham and arsenal. their only draw was swansea away.

now that says they had a bad time v top 4 but have done their business.

Our results are all we can influence and we drew 3 to our top 6 rivals and 3 draws are against teams lover than that. I don't consider much of that bad. sorry... if you want to call me an apologist fine but i could equally call you deluded for thinking that we'd any chance of a title at all and getting carried away with quite a good first half to the season.

but i wouldn't cos i'm not a rude ****

oh and bobby is right cheslea were not favourites for the title at the start that's revisionist.


you are focused on 6 draws yet our loses to burnely, swansea and Bournemouth were awful. Really west ham and sunderland were the bad draws.

that 5 bad results out of 22.. thats it 5.... you play bad and you don't win ok fine.

 

[carlthejackal]

OK time to look at the senior squad for the last few

Goalkeepers

1. Loris Karius - decent but still big ??
22. Simon Mignolet - decent but still big ??
13. Alex Manninger - basically a coach
– Adam Bogdan - eurgh need we say anything

Defenders

2. Nathaniel Clyne - bad couple of games but generally solid if not exceptional, what does he really do?
6. Dejan Lovren - eurgh not good enough
32. Joel Matip - FIFA issues
17. Ragnar Klavan - started well but maybe limitations being found out
21. Lucas Leiva - odd job man
12. Joe Gomez - young, injured or just back from injury
18. Alberto Moreno - eurgh not good enough
7. James Milner - slightly injured & maybe burned out in last games

Midfielders

5. Georginio Wijnaldum - decent but kinda anonymous, hasn't done anything majorly wrong but hasn't done anything majorly right
14. Jordan Henderson - bad couple of games, not that great generally
16. Marko Grujic - who he ??
20. Adam Lallana - thrived in front 3, dived since Mane left
23. Emre Can - eurgh, more we see him the less capable he seems every time
35. Kevin Stewart - non-entity

Attacking Midfielders

10. Philippe Coutinho - fluctuating player, capable of great brilliance, does it once a month
19. Sadio Mane - africa bro
54. Sheyi Ojo - non-entity, no experience

Forwards

11. Roberto Firmino - has been great but prone to off days more than you'd like in one of your main FWs
15. Daniel Sturridge - disappeared, probably wants to leave, we want him to leave
27. Divock Origi - more the season goes on the worse he gets
28. Danny Ings - non-entity

To me the key players we have are Henderson Lallana in the midfield and coutinho Firmino and Mane at the front. This core absolutely crucial to our fortunes. Anyone missing from that five, we could potentially be in trouble.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

OK time to look at the senior squad for the last few

Goalkeepers

1. Loris Karius - decent but still big ??
22. Simon Mignolet - decent but still big ??
13. Alex Manninger - basically a coach
– Adam Bogdan - eurgh need we say anything

Defenders

2. Nathaniel Clyne - bad couple of games but generally solid if not exceptional, what does he really do?
6. Dejan Lovren - eurgh not good enough
32. Joel Matip - FIFA issues
17. Ragnar Klavan - started well but maybe limitations being found out
21. Lucas Leiva - odd job man
12. Joe Gomez - young, injured or just back from injury
18. Alberto Moreno - eurgh not good enough
7. James Milner - slightly injured & maybe burned out in last games

Midfielders

5. Georginio Wijnaldum - decent but kinda anonymous, hasn't done anything majorly wrong but hasn't done anything majorly right
14. Jordan Henderson - bad couple of games, not that great generally
16. Marko Grujic - who he ??
20. Adam Lallana - thrived in front 3, dived since Mane left
23. Emre Can - eurgh, more we see him the less capable he seems every time
35. Kevin Stewart - non-entity

Attacking Midfielders

10. Philippe Coutinho - fluctuating player, capable of great brilliance, does it once a month
19. Sadio Mane - africa bro
54. Sheyi Ojo - non-entity, no experience

Forwards

11. Roberto Firmino - has been great but prone to off days more than you'd like in one of your main FWs
15. Daniel Sturridge - disappeared, probably wants to leave, we want him to leave
27. Divock Origi - more the season goes on the worse he gets
28. Danny Ings - non-entity

Agree on keepers.

On defence... matip rating is a bit odd given what he did surely saying a known weak ankle is his real issue not a minor one game fifa issue. other than that everything is agreebale

Midfield a little harsh on henderson but he needs to be totally fit to play his game. lallana in midfield 3 is best player there. i'd not link him to mane he's been moved

Attack. your rating on coutinho based on either last few games or this season is grossly unfair. with respect that is an opinion form prior years and needs to change, same for mane. are you rating on last few games or entire season you seem to be doing both.

Strikers. I would agree on all of them.

its all confidence and doing the job. they all seem to be looking at each other waiting for someone to lead them.

 

[Zingy]

IMO our draws need to be set in context.

1-1 v spurs away
0-0 v utd home
0-0 v southampton away
2-2 v west ham home (most dissappointing one)
2-2 v sunderland away (a joke)
1-1 v utd away

now... 4 of those are not at all bad results

the losses we have suffered some might sawy were poor to lose and had we won those and lost v the better sides it'd make more sense... but.... we've done well


Did you know as of today LFC have had a better first 22 games than in 2013/14 and we are only 2 points worse than 2008/09.

As of now the future is ours to make and how we react is what is important. players have to react to their results and push on now. They can't change what we did but they can change what we will do from here on in.

In 08/09 it was draws that cost us the league mainly. We only lost 2 games all season (****ing Middlesbrough ).

Klopp's win percentage (48.5%) is currently lower than the likes of Brenda (50.5%), Rafa (55.5%) and Houllier (51.5%). But so is his loss percentage (19%). Brenda (25%), Rafa (22.5%) and Houllier (24%)

Sauce: http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/liverpool/

Looking at that list most managers had similar draws to losses. Klopp has over double the amount of draws to his losses, just needs to turn those draws into wins.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

In 08/09 it was draws that cost us the league mainly. We only lost 2 games all season (****ing Middlesbrough ).

Klopp's win percentage (48.5%) is currently lower than the likes of Brenda (50.5%), Rafa (55.5%) and Houllier (51.5%). But so is his loss percentage (19%). Brenda (25%), Rafa (22.5%) and Houllier (24%)

Sauce: http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/liverpool/

Looking at that list most managers had similar draws to losses. Klopp has over double the amount of draws to his losses, just needs to turn those draws into wins.

yeah thats fine.

The reality is however we don't like it we are not actually that good. Klopps win ratio also contains a year where he took over and had to endure. What was rafa's record season 1.

2004/05 won 17 lost 14.

everyone has to build up and klopp is trying to do that his way. where that goes is unknown but its pretty clear that in this league we had some way to go at seasons start and still have some way to go.

I only expect about 6th at seasons start looking at our small squad but we have done pretty well thus far.

how would you rate rafa's squad overall at its peak? Or houlliers best time?

As it stands Rafa had a top top squad with hyppia, carrgher, alonso, masch, gerrard, torres and houllier had similar players with owen and believe it or not heskey up front. (IMO) I would rank this LFc squad below both but probably ahead of rogers squad which was 90% suarez.

It should be noted that I'd rather be in our shoes than city's now... spurs have worked for year upon years to build what they have, much longer than us.

So really.... who knows... I don't think we are good enough defensively but thats no secret or insight is it? the others had good defences to build on. Klopp badly needs to fix that next as his success hangs on it.

 

[Zingy]

yeah thats fine.

The reality is however we don't like it we are not actually that good. Klopps win ratio also contains a year where he took over and had to endure. What was rafa's record season 1.

2004/05 won 17 lost 14.

everyone has to build up and klopp is trying to do that his way. where that goes is unknown but its pretty clear that in this league we had some way to go at seasons start and still have some way to go.

I only expect about 6th at seasons start looking at our small squad but we have done pretty well thus far.

how would you rate rafa's squad overall at its peak? Or houlliers best time?

As it stands Rafa had a top top squad with hyppia, carrgher, alonso, masch, gerrard, torres and houllier had similar players with owen and believe it or not heskey up front. (IMO) I would rank this LFc squad below both but probably ahead of rogers squad which was 90% suarez.

It should be noted that I'd rather be in our shoes than city's now... spurs have worked for year upon years to build what they have, much longer than us.

So really.... who knows... I don't think we are good enough defensively but thats no secret or insight is it? the others had good defences to build on. Klopp badly needs to fix that next as his success hangs on it.

I'd agree that Klopp is punching this year with this team (defense).

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I'd agree that Klopp is punching this year with this team (defense).

yes and in my view his next moves are crucial to deliver.

I think he's done well getting his staff right with that bayern fitness coach and we have been consistently ahead of spurs as the hardest working side going but... in the end we have not struck the balance right as a team between attacking and defence.

when we've had a big game IMO we have done bettr defensively which suggests a mindset from wide players helping fullbacks seems to vanish v smaller sides