If it were me I would stick with him whatever happens on Thursday. I don't see much advantage in making the change in mid-season. I doubt Levy will agree though.
Transfer Rumours To sack or not to sack?
- Thread starter remembercolinlee
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Even if we win the thing, all that shows is that Ange can't cope with multiple competitions. This isn't at all unusual tbh and imo is one of the clearest divisions between average/good managers and the very best.
If this is how poorly he juggled the EL and PL, I shudder to think how bad we'd be if the EL was upgraded to the CL under his stewardship.
Poch finished 4th and reached the CL final in a year when we made ZERO signings, lost Dembele and Wanyama to injury, Dele Alli suffering severe mental health issues and alcoholism and didn't have Kane for the last six weeks of the season.
That is how you juggle multiple competitions under extreme circumstances. Ange isn't fit to prune the trees on Poch's cattle ranch.
If Spurs go out on Thursday and they decide he’s not the man long term, then surely he has to be removed immediately? Having him manage the rest of the league as a lame duck would be bizarre would it not. At least they’ve already got Mason who could step in short term.
I thought Dele had a sleeping pill addiction rather than being an alcoholic. For me it is a red flag that this wasn't noticed by Poch.
If Mason would do better then he should already have been appointed. If not then might as well stick with Ange until we can hire someone who will.
Sometimes, you have to trust your instincts. Not everything leaves time for extended road testing and detailed contemplation.
To my mind, I've long felt that Ange doesn't have any realistic chance of winning this tournament and it's very likely that Thursday sees our exit.
Sacking him off will , at the very least, make us less predictable, which is a MAJOR problem. Even at this stage, playing a 4-2-3-1 and telling the players to show everyone what they're capable of, gives us a chance...at least the equal of going out and being reamed by the Germans in front of a hostile, baying crowd, because they have had a week to perfect how to rip us to shreds.
We need hope. It's a good thing...maybe the best of things.
I think it’s correct to give Ange the chance to finish the European campaign.
Once that’s over (likely Thursday) then it’s time for him to be dismissed. Won’t matter who’s manager for the last few league games imo.
This is sort of where I’m at and why I’d get rid asap rather than waiting for what feels like an inevitable defeat on Thursday.
There’s obviously the possibility we do win the game with Ange, as well as the possibility of sacking him and still losing it but I think there’d be an improved level optimism/ hope amongst fans (and possibly players) if he wasn’t in the dug out and that can be crucial, belief can go a long way and right now I don’t think anyone has any, the players are playing like such and fans are just wishing the season ended.
As if Levy would have any idea whether Mason would do a better job or not, the bloke knows less about football than Two Tier Keir does about telling the truth.
Maybe it was noticed but he didn't know how to deal with it and/or the player was reluctant to seek help (something Dele has spoken about)? Either way, we hired Poch to be a manager, not a therapist.
My point was that Poch took a squad that was strip mined of some of its best players, made no additions in either window, and still guided it to 4th and the CL final.
By comparison Ange is useless.
Poch had a minor advantage that season as we managed to get eliminated from both cups within a few days of each other at the end of January, so there was a better chance of juggling league and Europe
Ange gunning for all four trophies this season looked like a potential mistake from the very beginning given we didn't have the squad depth for it, and that's before the injuries piled up. And the real issue there is that it's patently clear that gunning for all four trophies is a guarantee you'll run out of steam in the back straight, as Liverpool demonstrated last season when they spent a six week spell getting knocked out of the Champions League and FA Cup while also dropping points in the league and losing top spot
For those who persist in this weird belief about Levy...a little help with some actual facts.
Win percentage top division
40.07% Before Levy
44.96% Under Bill Nicholson
47.35% Under Levy
44.29% Under Ange
So Levy has delivered our best historical League performance by miles, much better than Bill Nicholson's. How could he possibly have done this if he was clueless on football?
And Ange's disastrous performance is in the same ball park as Nicholson's (but not a significant result due to the small amount of data).
If you don't think that one of the major jobs of a manager is to monitor the mental health of his staff then we will have to agree to differ.
How many of the current squad would get into Poch's squad of that season though?
A term I am not familiar with, seems to work, best not to analyse it too deeply probably. Unless it's some kind of sexual euphemism.
Monitor, yes. Solve or heal, no.
And Poch certainly didn't sign Dele knowing he carried such baggage, nor was he the perpetrator of the abuse, so he can hardly be blamed for the outcome.
Looking at that 2018/19 squad, I'd say:
Kulusevski (Dele)
VDV (Dier)
Porro (Aurier)
Spence (Rose)
Bentancur (Sissoko)
Bergvall (Winks)
Romero (Sanchez)
Udogie (Rose)
Solanke (Llorente)
Danso (Foyth)
Gray (KWP)
Sarr (Skipp)
All get in, with the players they'd replace in parentheses.
That's an awful lot of players from Ange's group who would have improved Poch's.
For the sake of completeness, I'd say the combined XI of Spurs 18/19 + 24/25 is:
Hugo
Porro Toby Jan Spence
Bentancur Bergvall
Kulusevski Eriksen Son
Kane
It's fairly evenly balanced, although I will happily concede that Kane, Eriksen and the two CBs were so good that they weigh it in favour of the 18/19 XI, although it is much much closer than many care to admit and so my conclusion stands:
Ange should be doing much more than he is, taking into account how much Poch did with that group.
Hugo
Porro Toby Jan Spence
Bentancur Bergvall
Kulusevski Eriksen Son
Kane
It's fairly evenly balanced, although I will happily concede that Kane, Eriksen and the two CBs were so good that they weigh it in favour of the 18/19 XI, although it is much much closer than many care to admit and so my conclusion stands:
Ange should be doing much more than he is, taking into account how much Poch did with that group.
The real kicker is depth
Poch's squad may have had depth for all the FBs plus had the option of Lucas or Lamela down the right, but central midfield was basically the Winkssoko pivot by default due to Wanyama and Dembele breaking down and/or leaving. On the other hand Ange does have the luxury of midfield depth because if last season's starting trio of Bissouma, Sarr and Maddison aren't performing and/or available he has Gray, Bergvall and Bentancur ready to come in
Even with injury issues (and Bissouma clearly being mentally checked out all season) there's enough personnel available there to control games
Trouble is that if Ange loses, as most of us expect, on Thursday then he will have lost as many games as he has won, leaving his loss rate at 44% too, which must be up with the worst we have had.
Win rates don’t tell the whole story.
League position, points gained and losses also matter dramatically. If Spurs win 5 and lose 5 then they have a 50% win rate. If they win 5, draw 3 and lose 2 they still also have a 50% but less than half the losses of the former.
It’s why imo you need to look at more than just certain stats when judging a manager