Transfer Rumours To sack or not to sack?

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Should we sack Ange now?

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
KingHotspur said:
Win rates don’t tell the whole story.

League position, points gained and losses also matter dramatically. If Spurs win 5 and lose 5 then they have a 50% win rate. If they win 5, draw 3 and lose 2 they still also have a 50% but less than half the losses of the former.

It’s why imo you need to look at more than just certain stats when judging a manager
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Agreed but points per win changed during history so win rate is the simplest calculation. The ratio of draws or points to wins doesn't alter much over a long period so you don't get very different information by delving into the details.
I think we've all got used to a very low scatter on outcomes recently which is causing an over-reaction to one (very) bad patch.
 
PowerSpurs said:
Agreed but points per win changed during history so win rate is the simplest calculation. The ratio of draws or points to wins doesn't alter much over a long period so you don't get very different information by delving into the details.
I think we've all got used to a very low scatter on outcomes recently which is causing an over-reaction to one (very) bad patch.
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Just turning 10 defeats into draws would change so much, mentally and league position. I know finishing 9th or 16th means the same in terms of no Europe but psychologically it makes a huge difference for me.
 
KingHotspur said:
Just turning 10 defeats into draws would change so much, mentally and league position. I know finishing 9th or 16th means the same in terms of no Europe but psychologically it makes a huge difference for me.
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Statistically we still have a big outlier with the win loss difference being so far away from the goal difference.
As previously posted I don't think the coach can really control in which matches goals are scored or conceded so sometimes you will get a bizarre outcome.
It is often said that a settled defence is the key to success in football and we couldn't have been further from that this season with four different goalkeepers, five different fullbacks and at least eight different centre backs having played.
 
PowerSpurs said:
For those who persist in this weird belief about Levy...a little help with some actual facts.
Win percentage top division
40.07% Before Levy
44.96% Under Bill Nicholson
47.35% Under Levy
44.29% Under Ange

So Levy has delivered our best historical League performance by miles, much better than Bill Nicholson's. How could he possibly have done this if he was clueless on football?
And Ange's disastrous performance is in the same ball park as Nicholson's (but not a significant result due to the small amount of data).
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Can’t help wondering how Ange’s win ratio compares to other current PL managers in the same period. That’s what matters.
 
I think I might dispute some of the specific players that would or would not get into the Poch/Ange squads. For example, there was one season where Sissoko for me was one of the first names on the team sheet (though maybe not for his whole tenure!) So we then need to qualify if we are thinking about those players at their best, or by their average.

BUT

The main point is that the squad should be performing better than it is. For all the people on Facebook for example, who seem to want to sell every player, this a pretty good core of a team - if it was coached better. And all those injuries were a reason, but results were no great thing when more players are available. The weird thing is that there is still a chance, unlikely, but a chance that we will win the Europa League. I would argue that if that happens it would be despite Ange, not because of him. So should such a thing happen, at the end of the season we should say thank you (*a lot*) for the trophy, but time for a change. I don't agree that winning the EL means that he gets another season in the PL because I think that would be similarly disastrous.
 
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vimhawk said:
I think I might dispute some of the specific players that would or would not get into the Poch/Ange squads. For example, there was one season where Sissoko for me was one of the first names on the team sheet (though maybe not for his whole tenure!) So we then need to qualify if we are thinking about those players at their best, or by their average.

BUT

The main point is that the squad should be performing better than it is. For all the people on Facebook for example, who seem to want to sell every player, this a pretty good core of a team - if it was coached better. And all those injuries were a reason, but results were no great thing when more players are available. The weird thing is that there is still a chance, unlikely, but a chance that we will win the Europa League. I would argue that if that happens it would be despite Ange, not because of him. So should such a thing happen, at the end of the season we should say thank you (*a lot*) for the trophy, but time for a change. I don't agree that winning the EL means that he gets another season in the PL because I think that would be similarly disastrous.
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I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if Postecoglou himself walks if we won Europa.

I’ve been getting the feeling in recent weeks he really doesn’t like it here, he’s regardless of my views on his management ability he’s been the subject of some nasty personal remarks from our fans home and away and he’s constantly battling with reporters, along with recently saying things like “if I’m here”.

If he achieves his “I always win in my second season” I think he’d consider it job done and move on.
 
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Dier Hard said:
I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if Postecoglou himself walks if we won Europa.

I’ve been getting the feeling in recent weeks he really doesn’t like it here, he’s regardless of my views on his management ability he’s been the subject of some nasty personal remarks from our fans home and away and he’s constantly battling with reporters, along with recently saying things like “if I’m here”.

If he achieves his “I always win in my second season” I think he’d consider it job done and move on.
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I would tend to agree with you, and you can almost see it in his demeanor of late. If (and it's now a massive IF) they win the Europa then as far as I'm concerned he can go with his head held high. I actually have a lot of time for the bloke but he's beyond nieve with his game play, and he is so stubborn it will be his downfall.

Also everyone goes on about Mason from Friday but isn't Wells technically the assistant manager?

Anyway the food and beer is lovely here in Prague so I'm going back to that till Thursday...
 
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Dier Hard said:
I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if Postecoglou himself walks if we won Europa.

I’ve been getting the feeling in recent weeks he really doesn’t like it here, he’s regardless of my views on his management ability he’s been the subject of some nasty personal remarks from our fans home and away and he’s constantly battling with reporters, along with recently saying things like “if I’m here”.

If he achieves his “I always win in my second season” I think he’d consider it job done and move on.
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In the last few days, I’ve seen a few people say similar online

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Tilly'sowner said:
Can’t help wondering how Ange’s win ratio compares to other current PL managers in the same period. That’s what matters.
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That's much more dependent on the quality of the squad than of the managers though.

I posted the above in response to claims that we have become a footballing irrelevance. The data shows the opposite trend. We used to be irrelevant and are coming closer to being relevant.
 
KingHotspur said:
In the last few days, I’ve seen a few people say similar online

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It’s tough to admit but we are a very toxic club at the moment. The general vibe around the place is just shoddy. We’ve got sections of fans abusing players and staff, more and more fans are hating on Levy and the mood is just at rock bottom.

Not only Ange but I can see a few players actively wanting out this summer, likely some very good ones too.
 
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Dier Hard said:
I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if Postecoglou himself walks if we won Europa.

I’ve been getting the feeling in recent weeks he really doesn’t like it here, he’s regardless of my views on his management ability he’s been the subject of some nasty personal remarks from our fans home and away and he’s constantly battling with reporters, along with recently saying things like “if I’m here”.

If he achieves his “I always win in my second season” I think he’d consider it job done and move on.
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The fact he's squared up to our fans on a few occasions in recent months is definitely a problem

It's one thing if his press conferences got noticeably narky around October and have continued that way for the six months since, but when he looks ready to lamp our fans at the final whistle it's clear the relationship between manager and fans has been severed
 
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The whole club feels toxic atm, that’s to do with a lot of off the field stuff (ticket prices, removing concessions etc) but the manager can’t be surprised that fans don’t believe in him after the last 16-17 months of results. I believe it’s 77 points in 60 league games or something.
 
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KingHotspur said:
The whole club feels toxic atm, that’s to do with a lot of off the field stuff (ticket prices, removing concessions etc) but the manager can’t be surprised that fans don’t believe in him after the last 16-17 months of results. I believe it’s 77 points in 60 league games or something.
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Ange has been found wanting and does not deserve
the extra time to prove his worth, when that was
denied to many Spurs managers before him.
 
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