Off Topic Tipping etiquette?

[bum_chinned_crab]

Well of course they're trying to make a living, nobody would do anything (outside of charity/volunteer work) for free. But in order to keep their job, they have to work their hardest, otherwise they lose said job.

I agree, but that wasnt what you said or it wasnt how I read it anyway. If they did it for charity it would be 'giving up their free time'.

 

[Steven Toast]

I agree, but that wasnt what you said or it wasnt how I read it anyway. If they did it for charity it would be 'giving up their free time'.

Well most people in hospitality are young, aged 16-24 and most live at home with their parents so have very little in the way of overheads, I imagine they go out and get the work for experience and given the choice most would rather be sat at home or out with mates. The older ones are a bit different and are probably there out of necessity, but it doesn't mean they'll work any less hard. In fact they'll work harder,because they have more to lose.

You wouldn't get a job anywhere in hospitality if you said you weren't available to work weekends and holidays, I imagine it's what puts a lot of people off it.

 

[HHH]

Having worked in hospitality for the better part of a decade (thank **** it's behind me), I know tips are a tough one to work out. When I worked behind a bar, the occasional customer would buy you a drink and that was good enough for me.

In a restaurant, it's a different matter entirely. When you tip, you tip the service, not the food. If you had a **** meal and the staff were a set of ****s, that's fair enough. If the food was crap but the service was good, the staff were polite and apologetic and did everything they could, they should still get a tip. It isn't the front of house's fault if the chef's **** up, it isn't their responsibility and shouldn't be punished because they did their job right at the end of the day.

I've had a fair few customers over the years say "oh I'm not leaving a tip, you get paid for what you do right?". I mean, what kind of daft attitude is that? In an industry where the pay is famously **** and the hours are unsociable, the majority of waiting/bar staff money comes from tips. If they're there on a Saturday night serving you a meal, it means they aren't at home with their family or out with their friends, they're giving up their free time to make sure you have an enjoyable evening. And while it's not mandatory, it's encouraged because it gives the staff a sign that they're doing a good job. "Well, I don't get tipped in my job and I work hard". Fair enough, but you probably don't work 10 hours a day, Saturday and Sunday at £6.50 an hour. You probably don't have to work Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve and all bank holidays. The majority of people have common sense and know the score, but some people really are inconsiderate arseholes.

The whole etiquette of who you do and don't tip is a funny one

Now in my job, I do work 10 or more hours a day. I do work most weekends. I do work many bank holidays, Christmas eve is just a normal working day for me, I have worked Christmas and New year's day and I will again.

I work in a profession where you can save a life and you could be prosecuted for your mistakes. I only earn what you would call a living wage, but there would be no question of me receiving a tip.

The one time a poor old dear wanted to give me some money, I had to do my very best to let her down gently without offending her. Mind, I think she thought I was the Avon lady.

Saying that, I do always tip at least 10% in a restaurant. Simply because I believe everyone who puts in a shift deserves a living wage.

 

[Spook]

Having worked in hospitality for the better part of a decade (thank **** it's behind me), I know tips are a tough one to work out. When I worked behind a bar, the occasional customer would buy you a drink and that was good enough for me.

In a restaurant, it's a different matter entirely. When you tip, you tip the service, not the food. If you had a **** meal and the staff were a set of ****s, that's fair enough. If the food was crap but the service was good, the staff were polite and apologetic and did everything they could, they should still get a tip. It isn't the front of house's fault if the chef's **** up, it isn't their responsibility and shouldn't be punished because they did their job right at the end of the day.

I've had a fair few customers over the years say "oh I'm not leaving a tip, you get paid for what you do right?". I mean, what kind of daft attitude is that? In an industry where the pay is famously **** and the hours are unsociable, the majority of waiting/bar staff money comes from tips. If they're there on a Saturday night serving you a meal, it means they aren't at home with their family or out with their friends, they're giving up their free time to make sure you have an enjoyable evening. And while it's not mandatory, it's encouraged because it gives the staff a sign that they're doing a good job. "Well, I don't get tipped in my job and I work hard". Fair enough, but you probably don't work 10 hours a day, Saturday and Sunday at £6.50 an hour. You probably don't have to work Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve and all bank holidays. The majority of people have common sense and know the score, but some people really are inconsiderate arseholes.

Which is why my tip is the most valuable.

"Join a trade union."

The Japanese and Chinese see gratuity as insulting and derogatory and the Scandinavians never expect it. It's a pathetic Americanism that encourages employees to grovel for their wages by expecting the customer to pay more for the meal/service.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Which is why my tip is the most valuable.

"Join a trade union."

The Japanese and Chinese see gratuity as insulting and derogatory and the Scandinavians never expect it. It's a pathetic Americanism that encourages employees to grovel for their wages by expecting the customer to pay more for the meal/service.

The Japanese don't accept tips, but it's only Japan, the Chinese absolutely expect a tip.

 

[Spook]

The Japanese don't accept tips, but it's only Japan, the Chinese absolutely expect a tip.

When my grandad was in the merchant navy, he said the only place in the Far East where tipping was culturally appropriate was Hong Kong. Maybe the recent shift to capitalism in China has something to do with it?

 

[originallambrettaman]

When my grandad was in the merchant navy, he said the only place in the Far East where tipping was culturally appropriate was Hong Kong. Maybe the recent shift to capitalism in China has something to do with it?

I've been going to the Far East for thirty years, Hong Kong, China, Korea, Taiwan and Japan and there's only really Japan where it is culturally unacceptable to tip, though they don't generally expect a tip in Korea either. They'll take it though, whereas in Japan they absolutely won't.

 

[Steven Toast]

Which is why my tip is the most valuable.

"Join a trade union."

The Japanese and Chinese see gratuity as insulting and derogatory and the Scandinavians never expect it. It's a pathetic Americanism that encourages employees to grovel for their wages by expecting the customer to pay more for the meal/service.

The customer isn't paying more for their meal at all, it's itemised on the bill. It's not mandatory, if it was it'd be included in the price of the meal (which in America, it is). It's a gesture of good faith and the staff at my restaurant certainly didn't expect it and indeed I bollocked one lad for highlighting the 'service not included' bit at the bottom of the receipt.

There's nothing pathetic about it, it's a custom that's been around long before the Americans started doing it. You know they work **** hours for **** pay, the attitude of "join a trade union" is bollocks and you wouldn't say that to any waiting or bar staff, I certainly wouldn't.

 

[Spook]

The customer isn't paying more for their meal at all, it's itemised on the bill. It's not mandatory, if it was it'd be included in the price of the meal (which in America, it is). It's a gesture of good faith and the staff at my restaurant certainly didn't expect it and indeed I bollocked one lad for highlighting the 'service not included' bit at the bottom of the receipt.

There's nothing pathetic about it, it's a custom that's been around long before the Americans started doing it. You know they work **** hours for **** pay, the attitude of "join a trade union" is bollocks and you wouldn't say that to any waiting or bar staff, I certainly wouldn't.

As a patient, would you ever tip a doctor or a nurse? The NHS has suffered cuts and nurses in particular work long hours and arguably don't get paid enough for the work they do. What about a fireman after saving you from a burning building? I've worked with my old man a bit and he's a joiner; whenever a customer buys him some beer for a job it's out of the ordinary. That's a gesture of good faith, especially when a job is completed quicker than expected. Tipping in the catering industry is expecting the customer to pay your wages when that should be the employer's responsibility.

By the way, I've never left a tip for a meal and I've had no problem. If a waiter or waitress confronted me about it, "Join a trade union" would be my exact response.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

There's nothing pathetic about it, it's a custom that's been around long before the Americans started doing it. You know they work **** hours for **** pay, the attitude of "join a trade union" is bollocks and you wouldn't say that to any waiting or bar staff, I certainly wouldn't.

You keep saying that but they knew that when they took the job.

As I say, i always tip in restaurants without exception because I think it's a 'nice thing to do' and I wouldnt feel right not to do it. But the argument they get **** pay for **** hours, well just isnt an argument. Lots of people get **** pay for **** hours and dont get tipped. I dont know why I tip in restaurants but dont to other service people, it's just inbred somehow. And why do people tip hairdressers? Why is buying a haircut different to, I dont know, buying a shirt? You wouldnt tip someone in a clothes shop.

While we're on it, does anyone still tip the binmen? Everyone always did when I was growing up but you never hear of it now.

 

[Steven Toast]

As a patient, would you ever tip a doctor or a nurse? The NHS has suffered cuts and nurses in particular work long hours and arguably don't get paid enough for the work they do. What about a fireman after saving you from a burning building? I've worked with my old man a bit and he's a joiner; whenever a customer buys him some beer for a job it's out of the ordinary. That's a gesture of good faith, especially when a job is completed quicker than expected. Tipping in the catering industry is expecting the customer to pay your wages when that should be the employer's responsibility.

By the way, I've never left a tip for a meal and I've had no problem. If a waiter or waitress confronted me about it, "Join a trade union" would be my exact response.

No, because they don't earn £6.50 an hour. Yeah the NHS sucks, but you honestly can't draw parallels between hospitality (not catering) and medicine, they're two completely different things. For starters, I wouldn't voluntarily go to a hospital on a Friday night. My fiance is a physiotherapist who works 2 weekends a month and does **** loads of on calls. It's why she gets paid a lot more than a waiter does. In terms of being paid for what she does, it probably isn't enough, no, but in terms of being paid for a skilled service, it's fair enough.

It's not about expecting anything, the staff don't stand there waiting for you to tip like you're some over lord with all the power. If you get one, great, if not, whatever, it's not the end of the world. It's the person's choice at the end of the day, but people who make a big deal out of not tipping, like they're trying to prove some sort of heroic point; like it honestly matters if you chuck a couple of quid from your (broadly speaking) 5 figure salary onto a plate to say thank you for a nice time, knowing that the staff member who served you that night will see less than 1% of the bill you just paid and will be in the building long after you're gone.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

No, because they don't earn £6.50 an hour. Yeah the NHS sucks, but you honestly can't draw parallels between hospitality (not catering) and medicine, they're two completely different things. For starters, I wouldn't voluntarily go to a hospital on a Friday night. My fiance is a physiotherapist who works 2 weekends a month and does **** loads of on calls. It's why she gets paid a lot more than a waiter does. In terms of being paid for what she does, it probably isn't enough, no, but in terms of being paid for a skilled service, it's fair enough.

It's not about expecting anything, the staff don't stand there waiting for you to tip like your some over lord with all the power. If you get one, great, if not, whatever, it's not the end of the world. It's the person's choice at the end of the day, but people who make a big deal out of not tipping, like they're trying to prove some sort of heroic point; like it honestly matters if you chuck a couple of quid from your (broadly speaking) 5 figure salary onto a plate to say thank you for a nice time, knowing that the staff member who served you that night will see less than 1% of the bill you just paid and will be in the building long after you're gone.

You keep saying that, what has it got to do with anything? They knew the wages when they took the job.

****loads of people under 21 earn less than £6.50 an hour and dont get tipped.

 

[Spook]

No, because they don't earn £6.50 an hour. Yeah the NHS sucks, but you honestly can't draw parallels between hospitality (not catering) and medicine, they're two completely different things. For starters, I wouldn't voluntarily go to a hospital on a Friday night. My fiance is a physiotherapist who works 2 weekends a month and does **** loads of on calls. It's why she gets paid a lot more than a waiter does. In terms of being paid for what she does, it probably isn't enough, no, but in terms of being paid for a skilled service, it's fair enough.

It's not about expecting anything, the staff don't stand there waiting for you to tip like you're some over lord with all the power. If you get one, great, if not, whatever, it's not the end of the world. It's the person's choice at the end of the day, but people who make a big deal out of not tipping, like they're trying to prove some sort of heroic point; like it honestly matters if you chuck a couple of quid from your (broadly speaking) 5 figure salary onto a plate to say thank you for a nice time, knowing that the staff member who served you that night will see less than 1% of the bill you just paid and will be in the building long after you're gone.

Once again. Join. A. Trade. Union. Or quit. If you're not satisfied with your wage, that's between you and your employer; it's not the customer's fault. I worked in a call centre for a short amount of time and I got paid £6-an-hour. I was 16 at the time and I thought that was great money for someone my age. Our wages went up a quid if we completed a certain amount of surveys each week but that was dependent on our work and the employer's decision.

 

[Steven Toast]

You keep saying that but they knew that when they took the job.

As I say, i always tip in restaurants without exception because I think it's a 'nice thing to do' and I wouldnt feel right not to do it. But the argument they get **** pay for **** hours, well just isnt an argument. Lots of people get **** pay for **** hours and dont get tipped. I dont know why I tip in restaurants but dont to other service people, it's just inbred somehow. And why do people tip hairdressers? Why is buying a haircut different to, I dont know, buying a shirt? You wouldnt tip someone in a clothes shop.

While we're on it, does anyone still tip the binmen? Everyone always did when I was growing up but you never hear of it now.

I'd guess at the fact that getting a haircut is a direct service. Unless the person selling you the shirt also made it, you'd be tipping them for essentially scanning a bar code. Which seems a little silly. At least in hospitality the people are looking after you and going out of their way to be nice. Saying that if I was having trouble buying a gift for somebody and the sales person went out of their way to help me, I'd probably give them a quid or two to say thanks.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Once again. Join. A. Trade. Union. Or quit. If you're not satisfied with your wage, that's between you and your employer; it's not the customer's fault. I worked in a call centre for a short amount of time and I got paid £6-an-hour. I was 16 at the time and I thought that was great money for someone my age. Our wages went up a quid if we completed a certain amount of surveys each week but that was dependent on our work and the employer's decision.

Waiting tables is generally a minimum wage job, joining a trade union is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

 

[originallambrettaman]

I'd guess at the fact that getting a haircut is a direct service. Unless the person selling you the shirt also made it, you'd be tipping them for essentially scanning a bar code. Which seems a little silly. At least in hospitality the people are looking after you and going out of their way to be nice. Saying that if I was having trouble buying a gift for somebody and the sales person went out of their way to help me, I'd probably give them a quid or two to say thanks.

What's the difference between being served in a shop and served in a restaurant?

One hands you a plate, the other hands you a shirt, either is capable of providing a good service or a **** one.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

I'd guess at the fact that getting a haircut is a direct service. Unless the person selling you the shirt also made it, you'd be tipping them for essentially scanning a bar code. Which seems a little silly. At least in hospitality the people are looking after you and going out of their way to be nice. Saying that if I was having trouble buying a gift for somebody and the sales person went out of their way to help me, I'd probably give them a quid or two to say thanks.

Ok then, how about a postman? Why doesnt he get a tip every time he walks to your house in the pissing rain? Or if you're having some home improvements done - would you tip a guy who built a new garden wall for you?

 

[Spook]

Waiting tables is generally a minimum wage job, joining a trade union is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

They could campaign the government to raise the minimum wage then. They know that waiting tables is generally a minimum wage job before they are employed. I've had a minimum wage job and I never complained because the money I was on was good for my situation. If they want more money, they should apply for a higher-paying job.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

I'd guess at the fact that getting a haircut is a direct service. Unless the person selling you the shirt also made it, you'd be tipping them for essentially scanning a bar code.

Actually that analogy doesnt work for waiters or bar staff at all unless the waiter you're tipping also made the food for you or the bar staff brewed the drink. You basically just talked yourself out of tipping people in the catering industry.

 

[Steven Toast]

You keep saying that, what has it got to do with anything? They knew the wages when they took the job.

****loads of people under 21 earn less than £6.50 an hour and dont get tipped.

Fair point, but the wage is the lowest you can legally earn, the responsibilities for that job don't stop at pulling pints and serving food. Also, the employers do say £6.50 plus tips, which I suppose is a little unfair in a country where it isn't mandatory.

While a 16 year old in a shoe shop might have to occasionally unpack some stock, they'll never have to do a line clean, or scrub glass shelves, or deep clean a glass washer, or deal with drunken morons. I couldn't afford to pay my staff more than minimum wage, I honestly would've if I could because some of the crap they had to put up with was inexcusable from some people.