Match Day Thread Time to look at our defence 2023/2024

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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I disagree - we played on the counter against Arsenal and Everton. Against teams like west brom, villa, Fulham and now Swansea, we've seen how we have struggled To dominate and control games with the current set up.
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We agree then. Didn't get what you exactly meant by the word aggressor initially. Confusing word, let's stick to counterattacking vs possession.


If possession is required, we need Allen certainly IMO. The stupid thing we did today was NOT play like against Arsenal and Everton. Our gallant shape today was meant to work slowly and patiently spaces, yet can't do that without Allen.
 
Livtor said:
We agree then. Didn't get what you exactly meant by the word aggressor initially. Confusing word, let's stick to counterattacking vs possession.


If possession is required, we need Allen certainly IMO. The stupid thing we did today was NOT play like against Arsenal and Everton. Our gallant shape today was meant to work slowly and patiently spaces, yet can't do that without Allen.
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I agree. In games when we're the ones doing the attackers, we need Allen/Lucas in midfield
Else we will be exposed.

Going back to the defence - they all need replacing bar Sakho.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I agree. In games when we're the ones doing the attackers, we need Allen/Lucas in midfield
Else we will be exposed.

Going back to the defence - they all need replacing bar Sakho.
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Interesting to see who Sakho would be better partnered with. When fit, Sakho is good both positionally and reactively and could be complemented well either by a reactive (Skrtel) or zonal defender (Agger).

Agger and Skrtl often bring out the worst out of one another. Koscielny (man-to-man, reactive) and Mertesacker (zonal, positional) have been quite successful, but I suppose different styles don't necessarily mean understanding. In fact, if they don't click, they're calamitous.

Maybe Skrtel and Agger are doomed as a partnership as there is too little overlap in their defensive skills. i.e. Agger positively refuses to mark his man sometimes, while Skrtel frequently refuses to think 2 moves ahead.

Good thing for us that Sakho can do both.
 
Two girls said:
danilo. said:
You're picking the best of Skrtel and the worst of Agger to compare and it isn't fair at all.

Skrtel looks lively and makes more interceptions and last ditch tackles, sure. But that is because he f**ks up so often that he has to. I'd rather have Agger not lose the ball in a defending position than have Skrtel lose it and have to scramble to recover it.

Penalties? Don't get me started. This won't be the last stupid idiotic shirt pulling nonsense that Skrtel does this season.

Quite frankly Agger gets a lot of stick for marking and while a lot of it is deserved, the rest comes from Skrtel or Toure being out of position or caught in possession. He isn't the best at set pieces. Neither is Skrtel. Neither is Toure. Bit when I see the team sheet I have more confidence in Agger to provide stability than I do in any other defenders bar Sakho.

There is an anti and pro bandwagon for all of our players bar Suarez and Sturridge. The reality is in between and not black and white.
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What's Agger good at then? He can't defend set pieces, he can't take a man one on one, his passing is hugely over rated (he infact loses the ball more often than Skrtel in our third, but because he makes forward runs, he comes out smelling of roses), he's not a great organiser, he doesn't cover the left flank when the LB pushes up...what does he do? People constantly praise his comfort on the ball. Shove him into midfield then because I want defenders who can defend and Agger can't.

I probably over rate Skrtel, or come across as doing so - he's not fantastic, but he's solid and effective. People sure make a Messiah of Agger though and I can't see why. Great servant, but not good enough.
Sakho > Skrtel > Agger > Toure for me.
We can improve significantly on three of those.
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I disagree with your points about Agger and Skrtel so much that I don't know where to start. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I rate Agger and don't rate Skrtel as much but I think they both have positives and negatives. Livtor has some good points about the partnerships and who Sakho is likely to choose. We will see how it works out.
 
Mark Lawrenson says it is to late in the season to change our defense as big changes in the team could back fire if we dont pull them off instantly. We are winning so we should just keep doing what we are doing and work on it in the summer.

He has a point.
 
I agree that Agger is by far the better defender than Skrtel. Better positioning, more of a leader, organiser and better on the ball. Skrtel is a last ditch, no nonsense type.

Problem is, Skrtel is one of those players who does more things that are easily noticeable fans - tackles etc. Off the ball, he is not that great i.e. positioning etc and this is where Agger shows his class.

However, both are lacking physically and it;s become a massive problem.

Cannot wait for Sakho to come back and I cannot wait to see who partners him ...
 
Flappy Flanagan (JK) said:
Mark Lawrenson says it is to late in the season to change our defense as big changes in the team could back fire if we dont pull them off instantly. We are winning so we should just keep doing what we are doing and work on it in the summer.

He has a point.
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The only change we should make is bring Sakho back and leave Aly as the left back - he's the best we've got in that position (defensively).
 
Our defence have to do better than today against Chelsea, Crystal Palace, and Newcastle. Well done for holding on today....very scary.<applause>
 
Our problem is not defending as a unit. Lucky to come back with a point yesterday. When we are three up we should sit back and let them come for us, then counter attack.<ok>
 
theresonly1gerrard said:
I really fail to see what people see in Sakho.

He is a liability, we need to spend £30m on a World Class defender like Varane
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I still think he needs more time. He's young and think he's raw. He's also not had that much game time to be honest.
I also think Reina organised our defence more than Mig does, which helps. I think Sakho would also be much better alongside a leader like Carra or Hyppia
 
Sakho is our best defender. Don;t forget, he;s only 23. As SR says, he needs a leader next to him. Skrtel is 29 but he still needs babysitting by someone like Agger.

Skrtel is the one constant in our mediocre defence but still gets the plaudits. It's not a coincidence.
 
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