Match Day Thread Time to look at our defence 2023/2024
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Absolute dross. Problem is, it's not just them. It's the lack of protection in front of them. New central midfield, new full backs and a RCB In the summer please
Flanagan might just be good enough to stay in that RB position. Agger and Sakho for now in the CB but with Ilori eventually replacing Agger. If Enrique ever comes back he would be decent for LB.
Lucas/Replacement DM in a holding role. Henderson and a new strong, physical CM to replace Gerrard slowly ahead of the holding roles. Coutinho in the 10 ahead of that midfield three feeding SAS.
With Lucas out we don't have a proper defensive midfielder to cover. Add to that the fact that Rodgers is starting four forwards per game instead of three midfielders and we are getting too much pressure on our defense.
Lucas/Replacement DM in a holding role. Henderson and a new strong, physical CM to replace Gerrard slowly ahead of the holding roles. Coutinho in the 10 ahead of that midfield three feeding SAS.
With Lucas out we don't have a proper defensive midfielder to cover. Add to that the fact that Rodgers is starting four forwards per game instead of three midfielders and we are getting too much pressure on our defense.
S
Super G Ted'inho
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- May 22, 2011
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- May 22, 2011
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Problem is, it's a choice of Agger, Toure & Skrtel. It's like blind date with 3 crazy women.. you don't want any of them but if you have to pick, you'd chose the least craziest.
Which is why I back Skrtel still.
Sakho and Skrtel should be our pairing right now. He is far more solid than Agger, even if he does have a tendency to shirt pull.
- May 22, 2011
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That is a constant worry and I mentioned somewhere else that Skrtel's problem is that he's always liable to an error, either by messing up a pass or by giving away a silly penalty (or own goal now it seems).
Agger & Sakho hasn't really been used as a combination this season for 1 reason or another but I'd love Rodger's to try it... let's face it, it can't be any worse than the rest of the partnerships that we've used this season!
Weren't Agger and Skrtel part of the same partnership that Rafa used in a very defensive Liverpool system?
They have defiantly fallen off the boil but I think some of this reflects Gerrard's new position. With him in this role we have set up and scored many goals from his pitch long deliveries, but I don't think he is contributing nearly as much defensively as a true defensive midfield player (Masch, Lucas)
What we have is simply a system set out to attack and outscore the opposition. And I don't think Brendan cares about conceding as long as we play good attacking football and ultimately win. Interestingly though in the earlier games of the season (pre Suarez) we played a completely different midfield system and played a lot more conservatively.
They have defiantly fallen off the boil but I think some of this reflects Gerrard's new position. With him in this role we have set up and scored many goals from his pitch long deliveries, but I don't think he is contributing nearly as much defensively as a true defensive midfield player (Masch, Lucas)
What we have is simply a system set out to attack and outscore the opposition. And I don't think Brendan cares about conceding as long as we play good attacking football and ultimately win. Interestingly though in the earlier games of the season (pre Suarez) we played a completely different midfield system and played a lot more conservatively.
It's not that the players aren't good enough. They're all proven and capable of being part of a strong defence. It could be management, style of play, inconsistent line ups or all of the above.
Those who think we need a revamp are wrong. IMO.
Those who think we need a revamp are wrong. IMO.
I really don't rate Agger at all and have no idea why so many Liverpool fans do.
He's supposedly a fine passer of the ball but looked dodgy as **** today, he can't mark on set pieces, wins fewer one on ones than Skrtel and backs off too often rather than going to the man. Few times Johnson had 2 against him and he was slow to move across to support (granted a midfielder should have been there, but if there's not...).
Agger, VC or not, shouldn't play.
Own goal mistakes? That's ridiculous...how could he prevent todays? The one last week was because the ball was behind him and Migs didn't come out, so he had to go backwards to get a foot onto it. At least he tried to cover for his team mates. The freekick today was soft. Penalty granted, but 95% of refs wouldn't give it and plenty of defenders get away with it.
There's such a bandwagon against Skrtel but he's really not half as bad as people make him out to be. He's certainly our best fit defender.
He's supposedly a fine passer of the ball but looked dodgy as **** today, he can't mark on set pieces, wins fewer one on ones than Skrtel and backs off too often rather than going to the man. Few times Johnson had 2 against him and he was slow to move across to support (granted a midfielder should have been there, but if there's not...).
Agger, VC or not, shouldn't play.
Own goal mistakes? That's ridiculous...how could he prevent todays? The one last week was because the ball was behind him and Migs didn't come out, so he had to go backwards to get a foot onto it. At least he tried to cover for his team mates. The freekick today was soft. Penalty granted, but 95% of refs wouldn't give it and plenty of defenders get away with it.
There's such a bandwagon against Skrtel but he's really not half as bad as people make him out to be. He's certainly our best fit defender.
- May 22, 2011
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When you have Arbeloa at RB (far better defender than Johnson) Mascherarno and Xabi in DM roles (far superior to Lucas or Gerrard on their own there) and player like Kuyt offering as much defensive protection as attacking threat, the CB's are certainly going to look far better.
I think BR knows our strength is in our attack so why not play to that? What's the point in sitting back and trying to win games 1-0 when you know you're far more likely to win by going at teams and trying to win 3-1 or 4-2.
Personally, I think it's the personnel that are the problem. Agger looked rusty but bear in mind he's
Coming back from injury. Same could be said for Johnson but he's been sh*t for a year now.
Skrtel looks good in a sea of mediocrity at the moment which says more about our defence than it does about him.
In games when we're the aggressor, We need either Allen and Lucas playing with Henderson and Gerrard. The midfield offers zero protection.
I maintain - our attack is the only reason why we're in this position. The rest are dross and should be replaced.
Coming back from injury. Same could be said for Johnson but he's been sh*t for a year now.
Skrtel looks good in a sea of mediocrity at the moment which says more about our defence than it does about him.
In games when we're the aggressor, We need either Allen and Lucas playing with Henderson and Gerrard. The midfield offers zero protection.
I maintain - our attack is the only reason why we're in this position. The rest are dross and should be replaced.
You're picking the best of Skrtel and the worst of Agger to compare and it isn't fair at all.
Skrtel looks lively and makes more interceptions and last ditch tackles, sure. But that is because he ****s up so often that he has to. I'd rather have Agger not lose the ball in a defending position than have Skrtel lose it and have to scramble to recover it.
Penalties? Don't get me started. This won't be the last stupid idiotic shirt pulling nonsense that Skrtel does this season.
Quite frankly Agger gets a lot of stick for marking and while a lot of it is deserved, the rest comes from Skrtel or Toure being out of position or caught in possession. He isn't the best at set pieces. Neither is Skrtel. Neither is Toure. Bit when I see the team sheet I have more confidence in Agger to provide stability than I do in any other defenders bar Sakho.
There is an anti and pro bandwagon for all of our players bar Suarez and Sturridge. The reality is in between and not black and white.
Agree with that except for the third paragraph. We WERE the aggressor v Arsenal and Everton and an extra CM was not needed at all. We had a delightful balanced compact springy shape all game. Allen's role has been to patch up the midfield if it was drifting and one or both of Couts and Hendo were poor.
Re defence, we can only do a patch job until Sakho is fit and asserts himself. Then his partner will depend on who Sakho can partner with best. Aggers minimalist zonal tendencies can be difficult to complement tbh with skrtl, but Sakho is a more prescient defender and might understand that type of partner. Or not, and he might prefer skrtel - I don't know - we'll have to see.
I disagree - we played on the counter against Arsenal and Everton. Against teams like west brom, villa, Fulham and now Swansea, we've seen how we have struggled To dominate and control games with the current set up.
What's Agger good at then? He can't defend set pieces, he can't take a man one on one, his passing is hugely over rated (he infact loses the ball more often than Skrtel in our third, but because he makes forward runs, he comes out smelling of roses), he's not a great organiser, he doesn't cover the left flank when the LB pushes up...what does he do? People constantly praise his comfort on the ball. Shove him into midfield then because I want defenders who can defend and Agger can't.
I probably over rate Skrtel, or come across as doing so - he's not fantastic, but he's solid and effective. People sure make a Messiah of Agger though and I can't see why. Great servant, but not good enough.
Sakho > Skrtel > Agger > Toure for me.
We can improve significantly on three of those.