Match Day Thread Time to look at our defence 2023/2024

[Foredeckdave]

And you believe Rodgers's desired style is to be dominated in the midfield and simply rely on SAS to win us matches?

Rodgers's philosophy is about possession, passing, fluidity and versatility - playing to strict systems is the opposite of what he is trying to achieve.

Rodgers has tried to do this but the static nature of our midfield and the un-intelligence of our fullbacks doesn't help him. Hence why he's looking at getting new full backs and a new midfielders in to help complete the jig saw.

Don't be silly. Who, apart from Arsenal has dominated us in the midfield?

Systems are purely what they are systems. They all have strengths and they all have weaknesses and they will all be interpreted in a myriad of ways. It's only when they are viewed over-simplistically that you get nonsense comments like the ones that you are making about both Rodgers and Lucas

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Don't be silly. Who, apart from Arsenal has dominated us in the midfield?

Systems are purely what they are systems. They all have strengths and they all have weaknesses and they will all be interpreted in a myriad of ways. It's only when they are viewed over-simplistically that you get nonsense comments like the ones that you are making about both Rodgers and Lucas

Arsenal, Swansea, Hull, Newcastle, Man Utd, Everton, Southampton???

 

[Foredeckdave]

Arsenal, Swansea, Hull, Newcastle, Man Utd, Everton, Southampton???

ONLY ARSENAL - and that domination lessened in the second half! The fact that the midfield does not always achieve what it is supposed to do is not always down to the superiority of the oppositions midfield!!!

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

ONLY ARSENAL - and that domination lessened in the second half! The fact that the midfield does not always achieve what it is supposed to do is not always down to the superiority of the oppositions midfield!!!

True but the fact that our midfield cannot REGAIN control is the worrying thing.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

True but the fact that our midfield cannot REGAIN control is the worrying thing.

But equally if our defence wasn't conceding basic goals (like from set pieces) we wouldn't have to REGAIN control anywhere near as often. No one's claiming our midfield is perfect because it certainly isn't and there is definitely room for improvement. Whether that's a question of spending, getting a better balance or just getting our current squad playing better is a matter of opinion and time will tell (as always) if Rodgers has the solutions.

Also you have to bare in mind that we have missed Suarez and Cout for 5 league games each and Studge for a few too....all good outlets for the midfield to move the ball to and who we undoubtedly miss when they are out.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

But equally if our defence wasn't conceding basic goals (like from set pieces) we wouldn't have to REGAIN control anywhere near as often. No one's claiming our midfield is perfect because it certainly isn't and there is definitely room for improvement. Whether that's a question of spending, getting a better balance or just getting our current squad playing better is a matter of opinion and time will tell (as always) if Rodgers has the solutions.

Also you have to bare in mind that we have missed Suarez and Cout for 5 league games each and Studge for a few too....all good outlets for the midfield to move the ball to and who we undoubtedly miss when they are out.

The defence is not perfect and I agree it does not help when it's constantly being chopped up and changed every week. There a number of individual errors being made.

Personally, I feel that is just half the problem. There is a lack of protection in front of them - we've seen how easily we get cut open through the middle, the amount of crosses we let in, the amount of times players have clear runs into our box.

I have faith Rodgers will get this sorted in the next 2-3 windows.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

The defence is not perfect and I agree it does not help when it's constantly being chopped up and changed every week. There a number of individual errors being made.

Personally, I feel that is just half the problem. There is a lack of protection in front of them - we've seen how easily we get cut open through the middle, the amount of crosses we let in, the amount of times players have clear runs into our box.

I have faith Rodgers will get this sorted in the next 2-3 windows.

Yes but it's a question of whether you lump all that responsibility on the players or you accept that there are other factors at work. Changing formations (and introducing different ones) always has a tendency to unsettle/unbalance certain areas of the team, a lack of consistency in selection at the back, playing Lucas and Gerrard too deep, a more attacking style etc. All these things can contribute to players losing a bit of form. I just don't think it's correct to write off players when there are other reasons that rarely seem to be considered by some.

As I said before a top class, settled back four really shouldn't need "protecting" other than having good quality, well disciplined midfielders in front of them. Souness was probably the strongest midfielder I've ever seen at Anfield but he never sat in front of the back four as such. Yaya is probably the strongest midfielder in the country right now and yet he isn't a traditional defensive midfielder. Hamann did sit in front but he was never the greatest tackler but his positional sense was sublime, Masch was exactly the opposite. Great midfielders come in different forms and it's up to the manager to get the best out of them. At the moment I'd say the manager isn't making the best use of them but on the flip-side this means he's getting more out of others so that's not me having a go at BR.

Regardless of current form we all know Gerrard, Lucas etc can play better but this assertion that our midfield is regularly dominated is false IMO. It certainly isn't the strongest in the league right now but it's a hell of a lot better than it's getting credit for.

 

[DirtyFrank]

I don't think dominated is the correct word.

Being in the wrong position as a unit without the ball which has lead to large gaps appearing in front of our entire defence? That has happened time and again playing various opponents.

As has been said. This has to be a mixture of players and systems. We've all had our theories on whether it's specific midfield players, defenders, partnerships or system. Well we've pretty much tried everything without solving the problem and the next few weeks will show if the solution lies with the remaining players who will get an extended chance.

If that coincides with a settled back two (although I don't see how a chop and change back two or even 3 creates a 40 yard swathe of empty pitch in front of them no matter who is CB) and it STILL doesn't work? Then we can suggest the gaps come down to the players in time for January.

While I agree Dave that BR should always keep in mind the players he has when sending them out that doesn't mean he thinks that's best overall and if he doesn't then he should look to buy in players that can play what he thinks is best and move on those who can not adapt. I say this a lot but he might as well do what he thinks best as his job depends on it.

We're about to play 3 of the better midfields in the league, so if it isn't solved we'll soon see if our midfield is worthy of second spot....

 

[Foredeckdave]

I don't think dominated is the correct word.

Being in the wrong position as a unit without the ball which has lead to large gaps appearing in front of our entire defence? That has happened time and again playing various opponents.

As has been said. This has to be a mixture of players and systems. We've all had our theories on whether it's specific midfield players, defenders, partnerships or system. Well we've pretty much tried everything without solving the problem and the next few weeks will show if the solution lies with the remaining players who will get an extended chance.

If that coincides with a settled back two (although I don't see how a chop and change back two or even 3 creates a 40 yard swathe of empty pitch in front of them no matter who is CB) and it STILL doesn't work? Then we can suggest the gaps come down to the players in time for January.

While I agree Dave that BR should always keep in mind the players he has when sending them out that doesn't mean he thinks that's best overall and if he doesn't then he should look to buy in players that can play what he thinks is best and move on those who can not adapt. I say this a lot but he might as well do what he thinks best as his job depends on it.

We're about to play 3 of the better midfields in the league, so if it isn't solved we'll soon see if our midfield is worthy of second spot....

frank. I agree with you that Rodgers will ultimately try and get the players that he wants to suit the style of play he wants to adopt. Every manager who has any form of transfer budget would do that. What I was trying to express was the idea that Rodgers is a realist and until such times as he does have the ideal player, he will accommodate and maximise the skills of those players that he does have.

As you say we are about to play 3 of the better midfields. It would have been better for us if all of our personnel were (and remained) fit. However, that is not the case and we will see how well the squad that we do have can cope. It's just a gut feeling but I get the feeling that by January 1st we will be very satisfied with the sqauds performance. For me that would be a points haul of at least 6.

 

[Tobes]

True but the fact that our midfield cannot REGAIN control is the worrying thing.

You lack balance in the centre of the park imo.

Ironically Gerrard & Henderson missing this weekend could unwittingly spawn a combination that works. You'll miss his dead ball deliver, but his absence will give you more legs in the centre of the pitch & that's been your weak spot imo. Henderson is a terrier chasing a ball on Southport beach for me, doesn't read the game at all.

 

[Foredeckdave]

The BIG problem we face until the New Year is creativity. Even without Gerrard and Henderson, we have enough bodies to fill spaces. But we only have 2 (Coutinho and Alberto) who you could actually label as being constructive. Of those Alberto has so little game-time under his belt that he's unlikely to last a full 90 mins.

 

[DirtyFrank]

I think the Spuds match is the key. A good confident performance, even if the result doesn't go quite our way and these players with little game time can go on.

Its why I want us to play positively and by that I mean more positive than the 2nd half against United or Arsenal. Give Spuds something to worry about other than unlocking our fairly (to date) open defence. Points matter but if we grind this game negatively and lose? These players will slump IMO

 

[Foredeckdave]

I think the Spuds match is the key. A good confident performance, even if the result doesn't go quite our way and these players with little game time can go on.

Its why I want us to play positively and by that I mean more positive than the 2nd half against United or Arsenal. Give Spuds something to worry about other than unlocking our fairly (to date) open defence. Points matter but if we grind this game negatively and lose? These players will slump IMO

I agree totally

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

"Time to look at our defence."

Plenty of time, they're static!!!



Brod is bound to get lucky with injuries that force his hand meaning he finds yet another system that works [HASHTAG]#luckedout[/HASHTAG] I predict we'll have a thread dedicated to our record breaking defence by 22nd February after getting five consecutive away clean sheets

 

[Foredeckdave]

"Time to look at our defence."

Plenty of time, they're static!!!

Not true. Our Full Backs get caught out in our opponents half - so they're not static. Part of the problem for the Centre Backs is that our DMs are so deep that the CBs have little space to play cover defence. As for their performance when it comes to crosses well it appears we are still trying to perfect a system that didn't work in Houllier's day!

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

"Time to look at our defence."

Plenty of time, they're static!!!

Not true. Our Full Backs get caught out in our opponents half - so they're not static. Part of the problem for the Centre Backs is that our DMs are so deep that the CBs have little space to play cover defence. As for their performance when it comes to crosses well it appears we are still trying to perfect a system that didn't work in Houllier's day!

For some reason, people don't seem to be realising when I'm joking lately

Fair play on this one mind, I didn't use a smiley

PS...and I agree.

 

[Foredeckdave]

For some reason, people don't seem to be realising when I'm joking lately

Fair play on this one mind, I didn't use a smiley

PS...and I agree.

Perhaps I need an infusion of concentrated humour recognition

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Perhaps I need an infusion of concentrated humour recognition

Easier for me to buy a joke book

 

[timmy5x]

One game later,

Arse 17
LFC 18
Chavs 18
City 18
toffees 15
Magpies 22
Spurs 21
Scum 19

One of the best defences in the league!!!

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

One game later,

Arse 17
LFC 18
Chavs 18
City 18
toffees 15
Magpies 22
Spurs 21
Scum 19

One of the best defences in the league!!![/QUOT

Marked improvement .