Off Topic This Thread May Be Short-Lived

[Stroller]

I apologise up front to the mods for the nature of this thread, and will fully understand if it has to be swiftly closed due to immoderate responses, but it is a subject that I feel is deserving of discussion, and upon which I feel personally conflicted.

OK, here’s the thing. I am anti-Islam. I am maddened by the fact that the blame for British Muslims joining ISIS is being laid at the door of the security services rather than the Mosques and the parents. I am uncomfortable with the increasing prevalence of niqab-wearing women on the streets of London and hijab-wearing children at my local schools. I would prefer that people who would like to live under Sharia law should do so somewhere else.

Does that make me racist?

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

No, it makes you a westerner. Being anti-religion can't make you racist. The UK is being overrun by immigrants. 99.99% of whom are perfectly decent people but that's besides the point. It wouldn't matter if they were all Saintly folk. Like everything, there's enough & then there's simply too much. The fact that a lot of them are Muslims is possibly GB's fault in the first place but that doesn't lessen the impact on the current generation of "natives" who have to put up with it.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I think it is not Islam that's the problem, Strolls, but extremists who hijack it. I have no problem at all with moderate Muslims.

Otherwise I agree with your views, save that the hijab/headscarf doesn't unsettle me. Head scarves are part of my culture. Full face veils are not and I will never acclimatise to them.

 

[Stroller]

No, it makes you a westerner. Being anti-religion can't make you racist. The UK is being overrun by immigrants. 99.99% of whom are perfectly decent people but that's besides the point. It wouldn't matter if they were all Saintly folk. Like everything, there's enough & then there's simply too much. The fact that a lot of them are Muslims is possibly GB's fault in the first place but that doesn't lessen the impact on the current generation of "natives" who have to put up with it.

That was what I was hinting at, Swords. Religion is a choice, race is not.

 

[Stroller]

I think it is not Islam that's the problem, Strolls, but extremists who hijack it. I have no problem at all with moderate Muslims.

Otherwise I agree with your views, save that the hijab/headscarf doesn't unsettle me. Head scarves are part of my culture. Full face veils are not and I will never acclimatise to them.

I disagree, Goldie. The headscarves seem to have become some kind of statement for Muslim parents to make via their children. It seems to me to be a token of Islamic militancy. The worst aspect of any religion is that children should be defined by their parents in such a way.

 

[Steelmonkey]

Brave thread Strolls, hopefully we can have a discussion without it ending up in a slanging match, with bans to follow!

Personally, I'm not anti-Islam or anti-Muslim, but I do feel that there is an over-obudance of them in England. We have a small amount of immigrants up here in Scotland, and the area I live in has the lowest immigrant population per capita in the UK. I travel all over Scotland with my work, and the immigrant issue seems to be dealt with in a different manner up here, where all immigrants are encouraged to integrate themselves into the community, as opposed to setting themselves up in the Muslim only areas you seem to get in areas of England - this then gives the immigrant, whether they be Muslim, Eastern European, or any other race/religion a feeling of worth, thus margionilising the extremist elements.

I came down to London last year for the first time since moving away 15 years agi, and it is over-run with areas that are solely Muslim, and it's these areas that are the breeding ground for extremism - but without eradicating these ghettos how do you overcome the problem?

 

[UTRs]

Brave thread Strolls, hopefully we can have a discussion without it ending up in a slanging match, with bans to follow!

Personally, I'm not anti-Islam or anti-Muslim, but I do feel that there is an over-obudance of them in England. We have a small amount of immigrants up here in Scotland, and the area I live in has the lowest immigrant population per capita in the UK. I travel all over Scotland with my work, and the immigrant issue seems to be dealt with in a different manner up here, where all immigrants are encouraged to integrate themselves into the community, as opposed to setting themselves up in the Muslim only areas you seem to get in areas of England - this then gives the immigrant, whether they be Muslim, Eastern European, or any other race/religion a feeling of worth, thus margionilising the extremist elements.

I came down to London last year for the first time since moving away 15 years agi, and it is over-run with areas that are solely Muslim, and it's these areas that are the breeding ground for extremism - but without eradicating these ghettos how do you overcome the problem?

This!

Fair play Stolls!

 

[fusari805]

Interesting thread, hope it's able to run its course without people flaring up, whilst understanding the mods position if it is closed. This subject is a potential minefield! Imo I feel the Hijab in the west is unnecessary and fuels segregation, it is a visually prominent separation between Islam and the rest and fuels Islamafobia, rightly or wrongly. Not sure where I stand on this as have no issue with the people, I work for many on a daily basis and most are kind and welcoming (the odd a**hole household, but your gonna get that regardless of religion) IMO I feel there would be less friction between the religious/atheists if the extreme parts of their religion was relaxed due to living in the west. Hijab being the most notable, at the same time I don't agree with us laying down the law like I believe the french tried to/did. It's not the race people dislike it's parts of the religion that seem alien to us, so no your not racist, your just voicing an opinion that is in many peoples heads in a similar/stronger or weaker version to your own. Also would be interesting to know the percentage of women that wear Hijab out of choice rather forsed by their partner/dad etc

 

[QPR999]

I apologise up front to the mods for the nature of this thread, and will fully understand if it has to be swiftly closed due to immoderate responses, but it is a subject that I feel is deserving of discussion, and upon which I feel personally conflicted.

OK, here’s the thing. I am anti-Islam. I am maddened by the fact that the blame for British Muslims joining ISIS is being laid at the door of the security services rather than the Mosques and the parents. I am uncomfortable with the increasing prevalence of niqab-wearing women on the streets of London and hijab-wearing children at my local schools. I would prefer that people who would like to live under Sharia law should do so somewhere else.

Does that make me racist?

Crikey Strolls, this has caught me completely unawares. This may well be too much for a football forum to deal with in an appropriate manner. I'll let it run for now to see how it goes. I can't speak for Beth or Tramore who are probably tucked up in bed right now though. You'll have to be prepared to have the plug pulled at any stage and without explanation.

What I will ask is this. Please can we have no one liners about hatred towards Muslims or Islam? Keep it sensible and clean and with a degree of discussable intellect.

Stroller, as this is your thread, I'll ask you politely to marshal it when no mod is present to keep it on an even keel. Emotive threads such as this are a privilege and not to be taken for granted. They are notoriously difficult to moderate and take up a lot of our time when they go wrong.

We have just had to close an off-topic thread due to posters hi-jacking it for their own personal feud. This one will not see the light of day if it happens again.

Good luck!

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

Personally I think Saint Gabriel has a lot to answer for. First he appeared to Daniel explaining his "visions" to him, then a thousand years later he makes another appearance this time to a woman called Mary & tells her she's going to give birth to God himself. After this he disappears for another 600-odd years & then arrives back this time to tell a disturbed individual called Muhammed that he's God's greatest and final messenger. A lot of handiwork for one mischievous angel who clearly delighted himself in winding these poor wretches right up with conflicting information about their divinity.

 

[Stroller]

Brave thread Strolls, hopefully we can have a discussion without it ending up in a slanging match, with bans to follow!

Personally, I'm not anti-Islam or anti-Muslim, but I do feel that there is an over-obudance of them in England. We have a small amount of immigrants up here in Scotland, and the area I live in has the lowest immigrant population per capita in the UK. I travel all over Scotland with my work, and the immigrant issue seems to be dealt with in a different manner up here, where all immigrants are encouraged to integrate themselves into the community, as opposed to setting themselves up in the Muslim only areas you seem to get in areas of England - this then gives the immigrant, whether they be Muslim, Eastern European, or any other race/religion a feeling of worth, thus margionilising the extremist elements.

I came down to London last year for the first time since moving away 15 years agi, and it is over-run with areas that are solely Muslim, and it's these areas that are the breeding ground for extremism - but without eradicating these ghettos how do you overcome the problem?

Integration seems to be the core issue to me.

'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish' is a shameful phrase from our history, but the Irish and Afro-Caribbean immigrants to this country have integrated with British life, whilst retaining their cultural heritage.

 

[QPR999]

No, it makes you a westerner. Being anti-religion can't make you racist. The UK is being overrun by immigrants. 99.99% of whom are perfectly decent people but that's besides the point. It wouldn't matter if they were all Saintly folk. Like everything, there's enough & then there's simply too much. The fact that a lot of them are Muslims is possibly GB's fault in the first place but that doesn't lessen the impact on the current generation of "natives" who have to put up with it.

Wow! Not the post I expected to see from you Swords. Are you after a moderator's job?

 

[Stroller]

Crikey Strolls, this has caught me completely unawares. This may well be too much for a football forum to deal with in an appropriate manner. I'll let it run for now to see how it goes. I can't speak for Beth or Tramore who are probably tucked up in bed right now though. You'll have to be prepared to have the plug pulled at any stage and without explanation.

What I will ask is this. Please can we have no one liners about hatred towards Muslims or Islam? Keep it sensible and clean and with a degree of discussable intellect.

Stroller, as this is your thread, I'll ask you politely to marshal it when no mod is present to keep it on an even keel. Emotive threads such as this are a privilege and not to be taken for granted. They are notoriously difficult to moderate and take up a lot of our time when they go wrong.

We have just had to close an off-topic thread due to posters hi-jacking it for their own personal feud. This one will not see the light of day if it happens again.

Good luck!

Thanks Nines, I'll try to keep it in line.

 

[Steelmonkey]

Integration seems to be the core issue to me.

Totally agree. If they integrate, and learn all the good things that we have to offer, rather than allow them to be isolated within their own communities, then maybe radicalisation would be less prevelent?

 

[durbar2003]

This is not going to end well !!!!!!

 

[fusari805]

Crikey Strolls, this has caught me completely unawares. This may well be too much for a football forum to deal with in an appropriate manner. I'll let it run for now to see how it goes. I can't speak for Beth or Tramore who are probably tucked up in bed right now though. You'll have to be prepared to have the plug pulled at any stage and without explanation.

What I will ask is this. Please can we have no one liners about hatred towards Muslims or Islam? Keep it sensible and clean and with a degree of discussable intellect.

Stroller, as this is your thread, I'll ask you politely to marshal it when no mod is present to keep it on an even keel. Emotive threads such as this are a privilege and not to be taken for granted. They are notoriously difficult to moderate and take up a lot of our time when they go wrong.

We have just had to close an off-topic thread due to posters hi-jacking it for their own personal feud. This one will not see the light of day if it happens again.

Good luck!

Fair play 9's, hope nobody ruins it for the rest of us

 

[Stroller]

Totally agree. If they integrate, and learn all the good things that we have to offer, rather than allow them to be isolated within their own communities, then maybe radicalisation would be less prevelent?

The point is that Islam is fundamentally contradictory to what we view as being a British way of life. We are incompatible.

 

[KooPeeArr]

My current issues are more with the degeneration of society what with the street from the station that reeks like an Amsterdam coffee shop where I got accosted a couple of months back, my former boss whose blatant flaunting of rules has thankfully caught HMTCs attention and my neighbour who thinks it's OK to smoke pot in the garden while playing with his two year old (with a regular procession of two minute visitors).

Kant says that anarchy is law and freedom without force and certainly the police and overrun prisons render themselves impotent in terms of proper justice.

Within these shores, people with morality thrust upon them are the least intrusive and general society probably exacerbates any segregation while giving any groups a sense of superior piety over the norm (which would only enhance a radical view).

On religion, I'm currently reading the Brothers Karamazov which contains a strong element of theological philosophy and is completely relevant and brilliant.

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

Kant says that anarchy is law

Sounds like a kant alright

 

[Didley Squat]

I apologise up front to the mods for the nature of this thread, and will fully understand if it has to be swiftly closed due to immoderate responses, but it is a subject that I feel is deserving of discussion, and upon which I feel personally conflicted.

OK, here’s the thing. I am anti-Islam. I am maddened by the fact that the blame for British Muslims joining ISIS is being laid at the door of the security services rather than the Mosques and the parents. I am uncomfortable with the increasing prevalence of niqab-wearing women on the streets of London and hijab-wearing children at my local schools. I would prefer that people who would like to live under Sharia law should do so somewhere else.

Does that make me racist?

I look at it as such, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

If a particular type of people come to our country, they need to follows the given laws of the land.
What if we went to their country of birth .......... would we be allowed to change their laws to suit our needs?

The biggest problem we have here in Australia and it may be the same all round the world ............. is that a particular race of people want to move to our country, ( why, because we have little crime and violence? ) ............. but they then want to insist on us that we should allow them to practice their beliefs and enforce their rules upon us.

In other words, we must allow them into our country, pay them benefits and alike, allow them to practice their beliefs, which may include treating women as third rate citizens, female genital mutilation, acts of violence / terrorism .................... for which they feel they have a god given right to cry 'Racists / discrimination ' if we object.

The weak kneed politicians, ( who allowed them into our great country in the first place ) and the bleeding hearts society, then bow further to their needs, so not to upset the United Nations and alike.

Yes, you, I and many other self respecting people, who love our country and what our fathers fought for, are witnessing society changing for the worse.
There are many of a certain faith who obviously want peace but they and their leaders are yet to make decisive statements and draw a line in the sand, denouncing those that choose to express hate whilst masking their beliefs as religious.

Another sore point may be seeing the areas we grew up in changing overnight, for the worse. We can't hold onto time forever but all we ask for is a little common courtesy from our fellow man. We do not want to feel threaten in our own environment and if we see something that is wrong, we should be allowed to voice our opinion in the right ............ and not be hounded for it.

These are just my thoughts cause at the end of the day, I just want people in general to mix and get along ............ if you don't wish to assimilate with us, why come to our country in the first place?