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I don't mind religious schools as long as they don't indoctrinate or place too much focus on religious studies. Plenty of my mates went to private and state Jewish schools and turned out normal. Both those schools are far, far better for facilities and education than almost all the state schools round here.
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Religion is, and always has been about control and the protection of wealth by a small (elite) proportion of the population over the larger (masses).
Control that was / is instilled through fear - fear of eternal damnation.
Has been so for thousands of years.
Over time, as science has managed to disprove much of the claims made by those with vested interests and religion has been watered down the element of control has been reduced.
Perversely, however, the advent of religious extremism has morphed into a war on terror and has, to a degree restored the status quo for the elites in that we are now controlled more than ever in the name of terrorism and the fear that this brings.
Terrorism is the new religion and is control through fear.
There is absolutely no place for religion of any kind in a modern society.
Control that was / is instilled through fear - fear of eternal damnation.
Has been so for thousands of years.
Over time, as science has managed to disprove much of the claims made by those with vested interests and religion has been watered down the element of control has been reduced.
Perversely, however, the advent of religious extremism has morphed into a war on terror and has, to a degree restored the status quo for the elites in that we are now controlled more than ever in the name of terrorism and the fear that this brings.
Terrorism is the new religion and is control through fear.
There is absolutely no place for religion of any kind in a modern society.
Difficult to disagree with that. I think if it gives people comfort then by all means worship whichever make-believe deity you want just keep it in your own home/temple and keep general society totally secular.
A good post and obviously an emotive one, but I would like to know is how the posters on here would have reacted if it was a right of centre poster writing it? Chaz, Ranger Col or myself spring to mind. Would we be called racists, imperialists, colonialists, nazis, etc... Over to you supermodswords.
Just depends how you phrase it. This thread shows we can have a sensible debate about a very sensitive issue as the OP isn't inflammatory and set a good tone for the thread IMO.
I haven't read every post in this thread and nor will I. Suffice it to say that I have some very close relationships with Muslims and have taken time to read the more pertinent parts of the Quran. WITHOUT EXCEPTION the followers of Islam that I know are amongst the gentlest, respectful people I know. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole barrel.
We are all aware of the atrocities committed by these so called followers of Islam, but let us not forget that we pillaged our way through Muslim countries in the name of Imperialism not so long ago, the results of which are that we had Muslims fighting on our side in the last world war in exchange for safe passage to the UK in subsequent years. We are not so innocent ourselves.
The Crusades were entirely carried out to enforce our religion on others. Let he who is without sin etc, etc. I am in no way defending the actions of IS, moreover I am pointing out that we are not as pure as the driven snow.
We are all aware of the atrocities committed by these so called followers of Islam, but let us not forget that we pillaged our way through Muslim countries in the name of Imperialism not so long ago, the results of which are that we had Muslims fighting on our side in the last world war in exchange for safe passage to the UK in subsequent years. We are not so innocent ourselves.
The Crusades were entirely carried out to enforce our religion on others. Let he who is without sin etc, etc. I am in no way defending the actions of IS, moreover I am pointing out that we are not as pure as the driven snow.
That's true but I have my doubts.
Personally I have no issues with Islam nor Muslims in fact with anyone. I do believe that if you go to a foreign country you should try and integrate as much as you possibly can. If you go to country where the religious beliefs are different you should not expect the host country to accommodate your every whim. This unfortunately has happened in the UK.
Personally I have no issues with Islam nor Muslims in fact with anyone. I do believe that if you go to a foreign country you should try and integrate as much as you possibly can. If you go to country where the religious beliefs are different you should not expect the host country to accommodate your every whim. This unfortunately has happened in the UK.
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You are an imperialist colonialist. You've admitted that yourself.
And which is why I said in my very first post that unfortunately, no matter what way you dress it up, past British generations have brought a lot of this Islamic immigration down on top of their children (I'm not talking about immigrants like you Pedro, I'm talking about the British in their homeland) and the current generation has to deal with the fallout of that period in history. It doesn't seem fair but alas that's the way it is.
By default of being British (English) I guess I can be classed as imperialist/colonialist though I haven't personally colonised anywhere, then so are a few million others but you are going to have show me exactly where I posted that coz my memory ain't what it used to be.
Not restricted to Britain, of course. France has similar problems with the extreme elements of Islam and chooses to deal with them in a slightly more hardline way.
But, then again, France is a secular nation and has passed laws against certain Islamic dress to underline it's status...
Of course you can't. Only those who support such policies can be classed as such. Are you being serious?
You've clearly not integrated into your host nation enough yet when you believe that your Country has the right to hold onto part of that Country in perpetuity because of a war 300 years ago. Your stance is extremely arrogant and not a little embarrassing considering you're an immigrant and therefore merely a guest in that Country.
And to think that someone like you is complaining about other immigrants coming to Britain and not respecting their host nation enough. One might be tempted to laugh if such hypocrisy wasn't so revolting.
Yes, that's what I meant by hardline. It's illegal to wear a face veil in public and there's a strict code of dress for schools
I was with until your last sentence. On that there are no doubt some few that expect every whim. But the larger problem in UK society for me is the racial intolerance of far too many people, and not only white Brits. The some few who expect every whim merely provide a pseudo excuse for it.
Racism in my experience in the UK is the worst I have experienced. I have lived in the US where racism was huge, but it was open on the counter in your face, and very frequently it became just words and a humour. In the UK it was under the counter, not in your face but on the phone for example, or a fire bomb in the dead of night in your corner shop another too common worse example, and far more viscous. Other countries seem to progress, melt together, other problems become bigger for everyone. The racism in the UK seems the exception, still being hidden with every other label, religion and political movement going, and very nasty.
Maybe talking like on here is a good sign but it's racism, nothing else.
Absolutely. I wonder if in France its the same crowd who gloried in Empire (conservatives) who are now whinging about immigration from former colonies? And whining about being in the EU? Why are conservatives such damn hypocrites the World over???
I lived in Turkey for nearly 3 years and i had to learn Turkish to communicate albeit on a very low level as Turkish is a very hard language to learn my Daughter had to learn turkish at school as we were rightly informed that we were in their country and their education system is Turkish not English.
Several expats tried to get the local council to have their utility bills printed in English and the council agreed but in a matter of weeks Ankara ( the capital ) told them they had to stop the practice and told the Brits to learn Turkish or pay for a translator themselves.
We were not allowed to work, We had to pay to live there (via very expensive visa's renewed on a 3 month upto 5 year basis ) and we had to obey all laws without exception under fear of prison/ deportation or very large fine.
Whilst over there we all respected their customs and way of life and tried very hard to intergrate within the community, but over here we have allowed immigrants to dictate to us, abuse our system, flout our laws and generally turn any area they move to into no-go zones for the indigenous population and start to live the way they did back in their own countries without fear of any action against them.
We only have ourselves and the soft politicians we voted for to blame and i am afraid that the immigant population in this country are now too well entrenched for us to be able to lay down the law and change anything, They have their own banking system, they send vast amounts of money out the country destroying the economic balance, They have given us Halal meat and have forced many local councils to adopt said meat in schools, take-aways etc, most supermarkets now only stock Halal meat for fear of upsetting them and risking prosecution for rascism, but when was the last time you saw a muslim buy any meat product at a major supermarket, THEY DON'T they have their own halal meat shops, there have been several reported incidents of muslim shop staff refusing to serve anybody buying pork products or alcohol as it is against their religion to handle them
Every day as i deliver around the country i see new mosques or religious schools being built, many with government or lottery funding, yet i defy anybody to try and build a church or carry a bible in the middle-east and see what happens.
For reasons i cant go into i am currently waiting to see if i will be charged with a section 8 racial offence by the CPS after being abused by the landlord next door and retaliating in kind, HE IS NOT BEING INVESTIGATED BY THE WAY.
When i was called a rascist it hurt, but i know in my heart i am not, but what i have been forced to become in my own country is not a rascist but a realist because in reality until the Government understand the seriousness of the problem and do something about the lunatics trying to turn us into an islamic state and brainwashing their youth into signing up for IS and forcing their way of life upon us nothing will change it will only get worse.
I AM NOT ANTI MUSLIM / ISLAM (My son-in-law is a Muslim as are my 4 grand-daughters) WHAT I AM IS A PROUD ENGLISHMAN WHO JUST WANTS TO LIVE IN THE COUNTRY I WAS BORN IN WITHOUT FEAR OF ANOTHER RELIGION / RACE TRYING THEIR HARDEST TO DESTROY THAT WITH THE RAMBLINGS AND HATRED OUT OF A BOOK 1400 YEARS OLD WRITTEN BY A RELIGIOUS MADMAN INTENT ON TAKING OVER THE WORLD.
Children are not born to hate, they are taught to hate ( be that by any religion.)
Several expats tried to get the local council to have their utility bills printed in English and the council agreed but in a matter of weeks Ankara ( the capital ) told them they had to stop the practice and told the Brits to learn Turkish or pay for a translator themselves.
We were not allowed to work, We had to pay to live there (via very expensive visa's renewed on a 3 month upto 5 year basis ) and we had to obey all laws without exception under fear of prison/ deportation or very large fine.
Whilst over there we all respected their customs and way of life and tried very hard to intergrate within the community, but over here we have allowed immigrants to dictate to us, abuse our system, flout our laws and generally turn any area they move to into no-go zones for the indigenous population and start to live the way they did back in their own countries without fear of any action against them.
We only have ourselves and the soft politicians we voted for to blame and i am afraid that the immigant population in this country are now too well entrenched for us to be able to lay down the law and change anything, They have their own banking system, they send vast amounts of money out the country destroying the economic balance, They have given us Halal meat and have forced many local councils to adopt said meat in schools, take-aways etc, most supermarkets now only stock Halal meat for fear of upsetting them and risking prosecution for rascism, but when was the last time you saw a muslim buy any meat product at a major supermarket, THEY DON'T they have their own halal meat shops, there have been several reported incidents of muslim shop staff refusing to serve anybody buying pork products or alcohol as it is against their religion to handle them
Every day as i deliver around the country i see new mosques or religious schools being built, many with government or lottery funding, yet i defy anybody to try and build a church or carry a bible in the middle-east and see what happens.
For reasons i cant go into i am currently waiting to see if i will be charged with a section 8 racial offence by the CPS after being abused by the landlord next door and retaliating in kind, HE IS NOT BEING INVESTIGATED BY THE WAY.
When i was called a rascist it hurt, but i know in my heart i am not, but what i have been forced to become in my own country is not a rascist but a realist because in reality until the Government understand the seriousness of the problem and do something about the lunatics trying to turn us into an islamic state and brainwashing their youth into signing up for IS and forcing their way of life upon us nothing will change it will only get worse.
I AM NOT ANTI MUSLIM / ISLAM (My son-in-law is a Muslim as are my 4 grand-daughters) WHAT I AM IS A PROUD ENGLISHMAN WHO JUST WANTS TO LIVE IN THE COUNTRY I WAS BORN IN WITHOUT FEAR OF ANOTHER RELIGION / RACE TRYING THEIR HARDEST TO DESTROY THAT WITH THE RAMBLINGS AND HATRED OUT OF A BOOK 1400 YEARS OLD WRITTEN BY A RELIGIOUS MADMAN INTENT ON TAKING OVER THE WORLD.
Children are not born to hate, they are taught to hate ( be that by any religion.)