I know you are expert at this, but aren’t we making the same point? If my post is wrong, interested to understand how?
The way forward for THFC ??
- Thread starter The RDBD
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1. Working on such stuff in varying degrees does
not make me an "expert" , merely someone who knows
quite a bit more about it than the "man in the street" .
2. Whether Citeh are inflating their revenues or not
(thus achieving a lower measure) is moot..
As I said, without the X/Y data the measure is
effectively meaningless.
The only reason I can praise Spurs is solely because I
know there is no "letter of the law" + "creative accounting"
antics on the revenue streams.
Here's an obvious point for the season ahead: the Asian Cup is in January, and Sonny is guaranteed to be in the Korean squad
So the way forward presumably also involves not having Bryan Gil begging to be loaned out in January for his mental wellbeing
So the way forward presumably also involves not having Bryan Gil begging to be loaned out in January for his mental wellbeing
So with the new season only a week away,
how are Spurs doing on the criteria initially set out ...
> 1. Revenues
a) Match day
b) On-pitch prowess
c) External
On a, it does not seem that there will be significant
drops in ST sales for this season.
> 2. Player costs
a) Transfer fees
b) Wages
No apparent changes there (always well controlled)
> 3. Managers
New manager appointed.
No immediate signs of negative football.
> 4. DoF
Scott Munn is in, but I don't believe his role
is a true DoF as I would have it (I am open
to be convinced otherwise) .
> 5. Player acquisition
a) Academy
b) Scouting
c) Route to the seniors
d) The market place
No obvious signs this summer that the current
state of affairs is already improving (especially
on d - the clearing out of squad players who
have no future at the club) ..
> 6. Supporters
Referring to 1a the ground will be full,
but what atmosphere there will be at
new WHL remains to be seen.
how are Spurs doing on the criteria initially set out ...
> 1. Revenues
a) Match day
b) On-pitch prowess
c) External
On a, it does not seem that there will be significant
drops in ST sales for this season.
> 2. Player costs
a) Transfer fees
b) Wages
No apparent changes there (always well controlled)
> 3. Managers
New manager appointed.
No immediate signs of negative football.
> 4. DoF
Scott Munn is in, but I don't believe his role
is a true DoF as I would have it (I am open
to be convinced otherwise) .
> 5. Player acquisition
a) Academy
b) Scouting
c) Route to the seniors
d) The market place
No obvious signs this summer that the current
state of affairs is already improving (especially
on d - the clearing out of squad players who
have no future at the club) ..
> 6. Supporters
Referring to 1a the ground will be full,
but what atmosphere there will be at
new WHL remains to be seen.
If he stays surely Perisic will the obvious man to come on to cover Sonnys absence with Solomon and probably Richarlison all likely to also be ahead of young Bryan unfortunately.
Yeah we’re actually quite well covered.
The other one to consider is AFCON, which is 13 January to 11 February. You’d think Sarr and Bissouma will be there. The PL is on a break 14-30 of January though so hopefully they won’t miss too much. Sarr’s Senegal team are defending champions so he might be in to the end but you’d imagine Mail might not make it as far with Bissouma.
This was based on the assumption that Perisic would be headed back to Hajduk Split this summer, which seems to be off the cards
Just a general thought on the following dimension :
5. Player acquisition
a) Academy
By my reckoning, Kane s the first Spurs player since Hoddle
(a gap of 40 years) to have been thru much of an
academy pipeline and then as a senior provided both
longevity and upward momentum on-pitch to the club.
Is it too much to ask of the academy to be seriously
reducing the gap between the emergence of such players ??
5. Player acquisition
a) Academy
By my reckoning, Kane s the first Spurs player since Hoddle
(a gap of 40 years) to have been thru much of an
academy pipeline and then as a senior provided both
longevity and upward momentum on-pitch to the club.
Is it too much to ask of the academy to be seriously
reducing the gap between the emergence of such players ??
Hard to say, there are probably on average 30-40 world class players in football at any given time so it’s difficult to ever really expect us to produce one even once every ten years.
I think we can/ should definitely aim to produce more Mason’s and Skipp’s though; solid, consistent players who can compete in top leagues. Even if just one a season, that would either help with first team squad strengthening or making the club a respectable profit.
Would you say that they were the defender equivalents
of Hoddle and Kane (I believe a two knee Ledley
probably would have been) ??
That aside, what should the academy be aiming for ??
To produce one Ledley/Hoddle/Kane every decade ??
I don’t know enough about how hard it is to sign youth prospects nor how much the Academy costs to make setting targets sensible. Bare minimum would be getting transfer fees to cover the costs I suppose.
@Dier Hard must be about right that 30 or 40 really top players exist at any one time which implies about 3 will join an academy every year. There must be about a hundred clubs worldwide with decent academies though so us getting one every 30 years sounds about right.
Yeah I’d say do, I never like to really remember Campbell but it can’t be denied he was an excellent defender. Ledley for me is the best CB I’ve ever seen in our shirt and if he had two knees I think he may not have remained at Spurs for all of his career, I remember Les Ferdinand saying as such during a half time interview at WHL and it was met by a few boos but Ledley was as good as any CB during his career, truly believe that, but no elite club would’ve touched him with those knees.
Kane, Ledley and Hoddle are/ were world class players. I don’t really think you can look at the academy and expect/ aim to produce a player like that ever but you obviously hope you can. I said in the other post I think there are around 30-40 world class players at any given time, then probably around 150 very good players as the tier below and then around 300-400 decent players which is where I’d place Mason and Skipp. If we can produce just one of those players a season, which I think is achievable, I think you can look at the academy as being very successful.
Assuming my guess of 100 decent academies is about right, our fair share of 500 decent players is one every two years.
A re-visit of :
5. Player acquisition
b) Scouting
Or more specifically, : how to avoid the NDombeles ??
Checking a players' :
1. injury record is easy to do
2. graft / tackling etc depends on what stats are being
gathered over the seasons, for any given player
3. attitude can be difficult (mainly anecdotal as no
selling club would issue a "school report" that could
crash their chances of getting good money from a buyer)
For their highest transfer fee bands, Spurs do not seem
to be faring well. Obviously we want the club to be
better on this, but conversely we do not know whether
Spurs are so much worse wrt the PL in general /
financial peers.
5. Player acquisition
b) Scouting
Or more specifically, : how to avoid the NDombeles ??
Checking a players' :
1. injury record is easy to do
2. graft / tackling etc depends on what stats are being
gathered over the seasons, for any given player
3. attitude can be difficult (mainly anecdotal as no
selling club would issue a "school report" that could
crash their chances of getting good money from a buyer)
For their highest transfer fee bands, Spurs do not seem
to be faring well. Obviously we want the club to be
better on this, but conversely we do not know whether
Spurs are so much worse wrt the PL in general /
financial peers.
https://www.givemesport.com/ranking...y---ajax-to-manchester-united-euro-95-million
This is allegedly a list of the 20 highest cost transfers in PL history. About half of them are too early to tell but of the other half there are way more failures than successes.
I think our biggest problem when it comes to spending big is that we're largely buying players with the hope they turn into the value calibre of their fee, rather than buying players that are already seen as the value calibre of their fee. So if/ when they don’t reach their potential you’ll have overpaid by a considerable amount.
Our top ten highest signings are as follows (from 10th to 1st):
Sissoko - signed off the back of an impressive Euros, never looked like a £30m player beforehand, proved an ok squad player but overall - flop.
van de Ven - early impressions are he will be a success and potentially worth his £37m fee in due course - jury's out but likely success.
Porro - a £38m enigma, technically superb yet defensively woeful, if his defending improves he’ll be a success if it doesn’t then… - jury's out.
Sanchez - signed off the back of one impressive season in the Eredivisie for £40m, never reached potential but done ok at times - flop.
Maddison - one of the most obvious signings to ever make, a £60m calibre player in this market got for £40m - jury's out but likely monumental success.
Lo Celso - signed off the back of one impressive season in La Liga for a total fee of £42m, one of the worst signings we've ever made - monumental flop.
Romero - Serie A defender of the year in a league with the best collective of CBs meant £47m was sound value, despite occasional hotheadedness - success, potential huge success.
Johnson - a promising player who should do very well under Ange but we can’t be sure yet, so at £47.5m - jury’s out but hopeful success.
Ndombele - promised so much delivered so little, a hopeful Dembele heir at £55m proved to be a fat, lazy mess - monumental flop.
Richarlison - the signing that I think confused even the most optimistic of fans, never proven himself significantly in the Prem, signed for a world class and current club record fee of £60m and is so far the club’s worst ever signing - monumental flop.
Our top ten highest signings are as follows (from 10th to 1st):
Sissoko - signed off the back of an impressive Euros, never looked like a £30m player beforehand, proved an ok squad player but overall - flop.
van de Ven - early impressions are he will be a success and potentially worth his £37m fee in due course - jury's out but likely success.
Porro - a £38m enigma, technically superb yet defensively woeful, if his defending improves he’ll be a success if it doesn’t then… - jury's out.
Sanchez - signed off the back of one impressive season in the Eredivisie for £40m, never reached potential but done ok at times - flop.
Maddison - one of the most obvious signings to ever make, a £60m calibre player in this market got for £40m - jury's out but likely monumental success.
Lo Celso - signed off the back of one impressive season in La Liga for a total fee of £42m, one of the worst signings we've ever made - monumental flop.
Romero - Serie A defender of the year in a league with the best collective of CBs meant £47m was sound value, despite occasional hotheadedness - success, potential huge success.
Johnson - a promising player who should do very well under Ange but we can’t be sure yet, so at £47.5m - jury’s out but hopeful success.
Ndombele - promised so much delivered so little, a hopeful Dembele heir at £55m proved to be a fat, lazy mess - monumental flop.
Richarlison - the signing that I think confused even the most optimistic of fans, never proven himself significantly in the Prem, signed for a world class and current club record fee of £60m and is so far the club’s worst ever signing - monumental flop.
Richarlison worse than Ndombele? Did he beat you up or something?
He is though, that's the thing. Ndombele has had more good performances and statistically done more for the club than Richarlison... which is absolutely damning.
Same applies to Lo Celso too.