The var thread

[Libby]

Its removed plenty of doubt that would have otherwise hurt teams like us with offsides, handballs etc so far this season.

Its removed alot of referreeing bias we have seen applied to the tip clubs-a fantastic leveller.

Oh, so as long as we're alright then.

I'm sure Watford are delighted that blatant penalties away to the top 6 aren't getting turned down anymore now we've got var.

I'm sure Burnley and Liverpool fans are pleased at the consistency we have being shown now as evidenced in their game this weekend too.

 

[Libby]

I think its been implemented very well, given its never been applied before.

Did you think we'd have 90 matches without a penalty decision being overturned? That was one of the selling points wasn't it?

 

[VocalMinority]

How is asking why it's not giving blatant penalties being 'picky'?

You're telling me you expected to be 90 matches in without it overturning a single penalty decision?


Surprised to see you say that tbh as most of the people I know who were/are for it are saying that they've ****ed up the implementation.

I said that this is how they should do it on this forumafter the mens world cup. Its easily been a net positive in correcting decisions and has improved on the onfield referee.

Complaining because it isn't re refereeing decisions feels very nit picky to me.

People should just accept that it wont change penalty decisions where something like contact or no contact isn't missed and there would be no controversy.

 

[Libby]

I said that this is how they should do it on this forumafter the mens world cup. Its easily been a net positive in correcting decisions and has done better than the onfield referee.

Complaining because it isn't re refereeing decisions feels very nit picky to me.

People should just accept that it wont change penalty decisions where something like contact or no contact isn't missed and there would be no controversy.

My issue with that is it's against why we were told it was necessary to bring it in the first place.

Nobody was saying 18 months ago that var was necessary to catch all those people who are 3cm offside.

If it's not going to give blatant penalties that have been missed/not given then I fail to see the point really. I don't think there'd have been any controversy if Watford had been given a penalty fwiw.

 

[San Tejón]

VAR certainly seems to have stopped all the shirt tugging, at corners, that we saw plenty of at the World Cup finals.
Mind you, with us, and many other teams, using zonal marking, this could be down to no one actually being close enough to the forwards to grab a shirt.

 

[VocalMinority]

My issue with that is it's against why we were told it was necessary to bring it in the first place.

Nobody was saying 18 months ago that var was necessary to catch all those people who are 3cm offside.

If it's not going to give blatant penalties that have been missed/not given then I fail to see the point really. I don't think there'd have been any controversy if Watford had been given a penalty fwiw.

Don't remember the mens world cup eh?

firstly i am 100% in support of giving a free kick if som1 is 3cm offside just as i am in support of giving a throw in if somebody runs the ball 3cm off the pitch. If they ****ed up, they ****ed up. Pushing yourself to the limit but not over it is an essential part of sport.

Second, I said that it should be used for only offsides during the mens world cup on this forum when everyone was complaining about how it was doing what you are saying now.

Current implementation has improved the implementation of the law of the game so thats a pretty big point of having it.

 

[Libby]

Don't remember the mens world cup eh?

firstly i am 100% in support of giving a free kick is som1 is 3cm offside just as i am in support of giving a throw in if somebody runs the ball 3cm off the pitch. If they ****ed up, they ****ed up. Pushing yourself to the limit but not over it is an essential part of sport.

Second I said that it should be used for only offides during the mens world cup on this forum when everyone was complaining about how it was doing what you are saying now. It has improved the implementation of the law of the game. thats a pretty big point of having it.

The Watford penalty was far more blatant than some that were being given at the WC, I haven't found a single Spurs fan who thought it wasn't a penalty.

And yes I get where you are coming from with the 1cm offside thing, my point is more that it's a much smaller error being overturned compared to a penalty not being given.

There's a lot in between what they're doing now and reviewing everything, though I do now think they should review everything.

And fair enough if you did say that, would explain why you're happy with it so far as apart from the new handball law it's all that it's really been used for so far.

You say it has improved the implementation of the laws of the game, but I say it hasn't really solved anything, offsides excluded (partially), and we're largely in the same place as we were year ago except with a worse live spectacle.

 

[VocalMinority]

The Watford penalty was far more blatant than some that were being given at the WC, I haven't found a single Spurs fan who thought it wasn't a penalty.

And yes I get where you are coming from with the 1cm offside thing, my point is more that it's a much smaller error being overturned compared to a penalty not being given.

There's a lot in between what they're doing now and reviewing everything, though I do now think they should review everything.

And fair enough if you did say that, would explain why you're happy with it so far as apart from the new handball law it's all that it's really been used for so far.

You say it has improved the implementation of the laws of the game, but I say it hasn't really solved anything, offsides excluded (partially), and we're largely in the same place as we were year ago except with a worse live spectacle.

The problem is youre cherry picking. Yes there will be the odd watford penalty (ive not seen it) but there will have also been dozens of other which are far less clear and you will have this problem wherever you draw the line. At least the current implementation is rather clear. If the ref says something different' like there was contact when there wasn't then it can overturn a decision, if not then it wont.


I dont like the new handball rule. i actually said here (also in the mens world cup funnily enough) that they should reduce the penalty for handball and come up with a different punishment than a penalty, not increase it. I didnt like the rule before VAR too.

 

[Libby]

The problem is youre cherry picking. Yes there will be the odd watford penalty (ive not seen it) but there will have also been dozens of other which are far less clear and you will have this problem wherever you draw the line. At least the current implementation is rather clear.


I dont like the new handball rule. i actually said here (also in the mens world cup funnily enough) that they should reduce the penalty for handball and come up with a different punishment than a penalty, not increase it. I didnt like the rule before VAR too.

Well yeah, I am kind of cherry picking, I could probably give you a shocker from almost every game week, which var was supposed to eliminate.

The point is it's not just one example, there's of multiple examples oh blatant penalties not being given which was supposedly var was going to eliminate. The PL even acknowledged it earlier this season.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

VAR certainly seems to have stopped all the shirt tugging, at corners, that we saw plenty of at the World Cup finals.
Mind you, with us, and many other teams, using zonal marking, this could be down to no one actually being close enough to the forwards to grab a shirt.

I saw Jannik Vestergaard grab a shirt once.


He was in M&S and a pile of them fell on top of him...

 

[VocalMinority]

Well yeah, I am kind of cherry picking, I could probably give you a shocker from almost every game week, which var was supposed to eliminate.

The point is it's not just one example, there's of multiple examples oh blatant penalties not being given which was supposedly var was going to eliminate. The PL even acknowledged it earlier this season.

I agree, and over time i hope they slowly use it for more as they get used to using it while ensuring it doesnt overturn correct decisions. until then i am happy with what it has done. out of interest when was the last penalty given when somebody dived with visibly no contact?

 

[Libby]

I agree, and over time i hope they slowly use it for more as they get used to using it while ensuring it doesnt overturn correct decisions. until then i am happy with what it has done. out of interest when was the last penalty given when somebody dived with visibly no contact?

I'm not sure, can't recall one this season. It's more about initiating and exaggerating contact now really.

As I've said before, I think if they're going to use then they may as well use it for everything.

I take your point about offside being offside, but it seems silly to spend minutes looking at something where no real advantage has been gained, yet if a corner is wrongly awarded and scored from it's not even checked, which is a huge advantage.

 

[Libby]

Have we had any ruled out by var yet?

 

[VocalMinority]

I'm not sure, can't recall one this season. It's more about initiating and exaggerating contact now really.

As I've said before, I think if they're going to use then they may as well use it for everything.

I take your point about offside being offside, but it seems silly to spend minutes looking at something where no real advantage has been gained, yet if a corner is wrongly awarded and scored from it's not even checked, which is a huge advantage.

Theres no advantage if somebody accidental lets the ball go slightly out of play from a long ball under no pressure. but the rules say the aim is to keep it in play so that what you do. same with offside. its part of the game.

I actually like offside.
Its all about momentum trying to trick your opponent into running when you don't or forcing them to run towards you just as a pass is made so you have that advantage running forward. Its really tricky to time but really pays off if you time it well.

People said that the wolves play got no advantage in their offside last week, but in truth our defender (yoshida was it?) was rushing to get goal side of him while the wolves player was moving backwards. this meant that our defender had the wrong momentum to stop the pass. while the wolves player had no problem receiving it. it was actually very important in creating the goal. I think people really underestimate the importance of this rule and the effect it has on positioning and gameplay in general.

 

[VocalMinority]

Have we had any ruled out by var yet?

I dont remember any happening but weve seen them in the past so thats one thing i would expect it to stop penalty wise.

 

[Libby]

Theres no advantage if somebody accidental lets the ball go slightly out of play from a long ball under no pressure. but the rules say the aim is to keep it in play so that what you do. same with offside. its part of the game.

I actually like offside.
Its all about momentum trying to trick your opponent into running when you don't or forcing them to run towards you just as a pass is made so you have that advantage running forward. Its really tricky to time but really pays off if you time it well.

People said that the wolves play got no advantage in their offside last week, but in truth our defender (yoshida was it?) was rushing to get goal side of him while the wolves player was moving backwards. this meant that our defender had the wrong momentum to stop the pass. while the wolves player had no problem receiving it. it was actually very important in creating the goal. I think people really underestimate the importance of this rule and the effect it has on positioning and gameplay in general.

See I'd like to see the offside rule amended now we have var, changes in rules should always be geared towards more goals rather than less imo.

You are right to say how the differences in movement is finer margins than most of us would realise, but I'd like to see then restrict it to a clear advantage in someqay, especially as I believe there's a margin for error anyway.

 

[VocalMinority]

See I'd like to see the offside rule amended now we have var, changes in rules should always be geared towards more goals rather than less imo.

You are right to say how the differences in movement is finer margins than most of us would realise, but I'd like to see then restrict it to a clear advantage in someqay, especially as I believe there's a margin for error anyway.

I assume you mean unfair advantage. Gaining an advantage without being offside is a large part of the fun of the offside rule.

As for changing it, not for me. I would rather have a clear rule with no margin for error. I also dont believe you should always favour more goals. Goals are exciting because they are rare. i neither favor increasing them or decreasing them.

 

[Libby]

I assume you mean unfair advantage. Gaining an advantage without being offside is a large part of the fun of the offside rule.

As for changing it, not for me. I would rather have a clear rule with no margin for error. I also dont believe you should always favour more goals. Goals are exciting because they are rare. i neither favor increasing them or decreasing them.

Yes I did and fair point on the last bit, not something I'd considered before.

Generally though we'll have to agree to disagree I think. Which where is me and you normally end up tbh but I always enjoy these exchanges.

 

[garysfc]

Been going since I was 12-13 & that equates to nearly 50 years. ST since christ knows when. Very, very rarely leave before game finishes (& certainly don’t moan at game) but today did something I didn’t think possible. My son gave up at 3-0 for bar. I did same at 4-0 & we both left at HT. Criminal! The last few years abysmal business decisions have crucified this club. Shell shocked. Don’t know what to say. Just got to Bitterne to see last 20mins. Laughable. Crying shame. Yes, shameful. So many people culpable. Don’t really need to list. If you haven’t got the balls to accept some responsibility then from my little insignificantly little box as a simple supporter, you can FO.

Edit: WTF - so raging, posted on wrong thread!

 

[st_brendy]

Given the incidents this weekend and last weekend, I get the feeling that the referees were sat down before last weekend and instructed to lower the 'clear and obvious' threshold when acting as the VAR.

Two goals ruled out for fouls. A red card given. A penalty given. Whereas before last weekend, I'm tempted to say that VAR had only overturned one decision which wasn't handball or offside related.