Off Topic The QPR Not 606 Rolling Election Poll

[Stroller]

Working poor - troubling, and I think the minimum wage should be upped asap. (easy for me to say when I don't have to balance the books)

Significantly increasing the minimum wage would also significantly reduce tax credit payments. Do you think the Tories will take this opportunity to reduce the Welfare bill?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Significantly increasing the minimum wage would also significantly reduce tax credit payments. Do you think the Tories will take this opportunity to reduce the Welfare bill?

If you're right and it makes economic sense, they will. Their constant mantra is that working should pay over life on benefits.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Connection to healthcare - very broad- would include public companies so presumably having shares in Boots would qualify

Outsourcing certain work isn't unusual in big organisations - cleaning for example - if it's medical care, then I agree it's more fundamental. If it could be shown that it was awarded to a private company in which a minister has a financial interest this would set off alarm bells - but can it?

I'm confident the NHS will remain free at the point of use, but health tourism should be looked at and abusing the system like regularly failing to turn up for doctor's appointments should incur a fine imo

Here's the first one Goldie :

Andrew Lansley - Conservative - John Nash, the former chairman (until 2010) of Care UK, gave £21,000 to fund Andrew Lansley’s personal office in November 2009. In a recent interview, a senior director of the firm said that 96 per cent of Care UK’s business, which amounted to more than £400 million last year, came from the NHS. - Hedge fund boss John Nash is one of the major Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry.

He and wife Caroline gave £203,500 to the party over the past five years. The“hedgie” is also a founder of City firm Sovereign Capital, which runs a string of private healthcare firms. Fellow founder Ryan Robson is another major Tory donor who has given the party £252,429.45.

His donations included £50,000 to be a member of the party’s “Leader’s Group”,a secretive cash-for-access club. The would-be MP, who tried but failed to get selected as the election candidate in Bracknell, is managing partner at Sovereign Capital. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...thcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

In 2008 Andrew Lansley received a donation from Julian Schild used to support his office in his capacity as Shadow secretary for health. Julian Schild’s family made £184million in 2006 by selling hospital bed-makers Huntleigh Technology.
Andrew Lansley’s wife, Sally Low, is founder and managing director of Low Associates (“We make the link between the public and private sectors”). A Daily Telegraph report in February records that the Low Associates website lists pharmaceuticals companies SmithKline Beecham, Unilever and P&G among its clients. It also records Ms Low’s assertion that the company “does not work with any client who has interests in the health sector”. The website currently contains no reference to the drug firms listed above. http://www.channel4.com/news/andrew-lansleys-nhs-plans-still-in-good-health

Circle the ambitious private healthcare firm run and owned by clinicians, has recruited a former aide to health secretary Andrew Lansley as head of communications. Christina Lineen spent two years working for Lansley, who became health secretary after the general election. The company’s income is derived from private patients, either on insurance schemes or paying for themselves, but it also treats NHS patients. - http://www.publicaffairsnews.com/no...ts-ex-lansley-aide-to-head-comms/2/?tx_ttnews

Lansley was a paid director of the marketing agency Profero, who had Diageo Guiness as one of their clients. He gave up the director ship in 2009. In 2008, a senior NHS executive appearing in a commons committee, accused Daigeo of flouting voluntary agreements on responsible drinking labelling. In 2010 Lansley invited fast food companies and Diageo in for discussions on how to tackle obseity, and binge drinking. In 2011 Diageo were given responsibility to pay for training to offer advice on the dangers of alcohol.

 

[Stroller]

If you're right and it makes economic sense, they will. Their constant mantra is that working should pay over life on benefits.

Of course it should, and I think it would make economic sense, but they won't do it because it would mean reducing the profits of their benefactors.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Significantly increasing the minimum wage would also significantly reduce tax credit payments. Do you think the Tories will take this opportunity to reduce the Welfare bill?

Not a hope in hells chance ................. working tax credits are paid to the employees of large corporations who are deemed to be "working poor".

This means that the corporations can pay the legal minimum wage and that you and I (ie taxpayers) can top up thier employees wages through our taxes (so they dont have to).

This means more profit for the corporations and their shareholders.

Their shareholders invariably include Tory MP's .

The Tories are financially backed by these same corporations and are in their pockets and cannot bite the hand that feeds them.

Simples!

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Here's the first one Goldie :

Andrew Lansley - Conservative - John Nash, the former chairman (until 2010) of Care UK, gave £21,000 to fund Andrew Lansley’s personal office in November 2009. In a recent interview, a senior director of the firm said that 96 per cent of Care UK’s business, which amounted to more than £400 million last year, came from the NHS. - Hedge fund boss John Nash is one of the major Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry.

He and wife Caroline gave £203,500 to the party over the past five years. The“hedgie” is also a founder of City firm Sovereign Capital, which runs a string of private healthcare firms. Fellow founder Ryan Robson is another major Tory donor who has given the party £252,429.45.

His donations included £50,000 to be a member of the party’s “Leader’s Group”,a secretive cash-for-access club. The would-be MP, who tried but failed to get selected as the election candidate in Bracknell, is managing partner at Sovereign Capital. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...thcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

In 2008 Andrew Lansley received a donation from Julian Schild used to support his office in his capacity as Shadow secretary for health. Julian Schild’s family made £184million in 2006 by selling hospital bed-makers Huntleigh Technology.
Andrew Lansley’s wife, Sally Low, is founder and managing director of Low Associates (“We make the link between the public and private sectors”). A Daily Telegraph report in February records that the Low Associates website lists pharmaceuticals companies SmithKline Beecham, Unilever and P&G among its clients. It also records Ms Low’s assertion that the company “does not work with any client who has interests in the health sector”. The website currently contains no reference to the drug firms listed above. http://www.channel4.com/news/andrew-lansleys-nhs-plans-still-in-good-health

Circle the ambitious private healthcare firm run and owned by clinicians, has recruited a former aide to health secretary Andrew Lansley as head of communications. Christina Lineen spent two years working for Lansley, who became health secretary after the general election. The company’s income is derived from private patients, either on insurance schemes or paying for themselves, but it also treats NHS patients. - http://www.publicaffairsnews.com/no...ts-ex-lansley-aide-to-head-comms/2/?tx_ttnews

Lansley was a paid director of the marketing agency Profero, who had Diageo Guiness as one of their clients. He gave up the director ship in 2009. In 2008, a senior NHS executive appearing in a commons committee, accused Daigeo of flouting voluntary agreements on responsible drinking labelling. In 2010 Lansley invited fast food companies and Diageo in for discussions on how to tackle obseity, and binge drinking. In 2011 Diageo were given responsibility to pay for training to offer advice on the dangers of alcohol.

Interesting, Pils. When you get links between private NHS work and donations to a party, it begins to look like a bribe. Since all this is in the public domain, presumably it complies with Parliamentary rules, which begs the question whether the rules are tight enough

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Seriously Goldie I could give you at least another 150 examples involving current MPs and Peers all documented and in the public domain.

That is just with regards NHS contracts and parliamentary funding.

Dont get me started on George Osbournes father in law's role in Quadrilla - one of the largest Fracking companies currently applying for a licence within the UK.

It is all out there (if you know where to look) and it is absolutely terrifying the levels of corruption once you start to appreciate the big picture!

 

[Sooperhoop]

Well, election is done, plenty of time to get used to the aftermath. General conclusions from my perspective (on the thread, not the election), good fun, but I don't think any of the main protagonists changed their minds from their starting position. Would have been good to have had a Scot/surrogate Scot to put the SNP perspective - Steelmonkey, where were you? Likewise Kippers, lots of votes, no voice. Mainly good tempered, but its a bit worrying how easily we slip into stereotypes and just oppose views for the sake of opposing rather than trying to understand them - I am as guilty of this as anyone. Hopefully our elected leaders will spend a bit more time listening.

Thread awards:

The Floyd Mayweather Dodging the Punches and Hitting Back Award - Chaz, even though he sometimes chose to ignore all but one or two words in some posts.
The Good Lord I Thought I Was Cynical Award - Sooper. Good Lord I thought I was cynical.
The Lenin in Exile in Switzerland Award - Ossie, see you at the Finland Station mate.
The Existential Despair of the Left Award - Stroller. One day you may have a party with a chance on the ballot paper.
The Agent Provocateur Award - Swords, light blue touchpaper and stand back.
The Honourary Flyer Extreme Paranoia Award - Goldie - BBC bias! SNP self interest!

Cheers lads.

Don't worry Stan by time you reach my age you'll be far more cynical than me, God help you!...

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Interesting, Pils. When you get links between private NHS work and donations to a party, it begins to look like a bribe. Since all this is in the public domain, presumably it complies with Parliamentary rules, which begs the question whether the rules are tight enough

Here's Daves.....

Dvid Cameron - Nursing and care home tycoon Dolar Popat has given the Conservatives £209,000. The Ugandan-born dad-of-three has amassed an estimated £42million fortune as founder and chief of TLC Group, which provides services for the elderly. Mr Cameron made the businessman a peer shortly after entering No10 in May 2010, and Lord Popat’s donations include a £25,000 gift registered a week after the Tories’ health reforms were unveiled last July.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...thcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

In 2005 Cameron received£1,500 from Care home property company Chiltern Care Holdings - electoral commission

 

[sb_73]

Here's the first one Goldie :

Andrew Lansley - Conservative - John Nash, the former chairman (until 2010) of Care UK, gave £21,000 to fund Andrew Lansley’s personal office in November 2009. In a recent interview, a senior director of the firm said that 96 per cent of Care UK’s business, which amounted to more than £400 million last year, came from the NHS. - Hedge fund boss John Nash is one of the major Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry.

He and wife Caroline gave £203,500 to the party over the past five years. The“hedgie” is also a founder of City firm Sovereign Capital, which runs a string of private healthcare firms. Fellow founder Ryan Robson is another major Tory donor who has given the party £252,429.45.

His donations included £50,000 to be a member of the party’s “Leader’s Group”,a secretive cash-for-access club. The would-be MP, who tried but failed to get selected as the election candidate in Bracknell, is managing partner at Sovereign Capital. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...thcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

In 2008 Andrew Lansley received a donation from Julian Schild used to support his office in his capacity as Shadow secretary for health. Julian Schild’s family made £184million in 2006 by selling hospital bed-makers Huntleigh Technology.
Andrew Lansley’s wife, Sally Low, is founder and managing director of Low Associates (“We make the link between the public and private sectors”). A Daily Telegraph report in February records that the Low Associates website lists pharmaceuticals companies SmithKline Beecham, Unilever and P&G among its clients. It also records Ms Low’s assertion that the company “does not work with any client who has interests in the health sector”. The website currently contains no reference to the drug firms listed above. http://www.channel4.com/news/andrew-lansleys-nhs-plans-still-in-good-health

Circle the ambitious private healthcare firm run and owned by clinicians, has recruited a former aide to health secretary Andrew Lansley as head of communications. Christina Lineen spent two years working for Lansley, who became health secretary after the general election. The company’s income is derived from private patients, either on insurance schemes or paying for themselves, but it also treats NHS patients. - http://www.publicaffairsnews.com/no...ts-ex-lansley-aide-to-head-comms/2/?tx_ttnews

Lansley was a paid director of the marketing agency Profero, who had Diageo Guiness as one of their clients. He gave up the director ship in 2009. In 2008, a senior NHS executive appearing in a commons committee, accused Daigeo of flouting voluntary agreements on responsible drinking labelling. In 2010 Lansley invited fast food companies and Diageo in for discussions on how to tackle obseity, and binge drinking. In 2011 Diageo were given responsibility to pay for training to offer advice on the dangers of alcohol.

Bit late to this party Pils........I like someone who backs up his arguments. Of course there are corrupt links, but most of what you have posted there is from before Lansley was a minister. Doesn't mean he wasn't influenced later, but you'd be much more convincing having a go at him for a wasteful and pointless reorganisation.

Of the £100bn plus per year spent on the NHS less than £10bn goes to contracted out services, a lot of this to charitable/not for profit providers. And of course the vast majority of GP services are contracted out (not included in the £10bn) technically privatised. GPs are self employed. Do you think the NHS should be pickled in aspic? As long as it is free at the point of delivery, paid for out of general taxation (or perhaps a hypothecated health tax) and provides timely, high quality services in decent facilities with outcomes comparable with other big Western European countries I don't really care if the provider is public or private sector. Of course these countries currently have better outcomes overall than us and much more private sector health care provision, paid for from compulsory state run health insurance.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Of course it should, and I think it would make economic sense, but they won't do it because it would mean reducing the profits of their benefactors.

The Tories originally opposed the minimum wage on the grounds that it would be too great a cost to employers and jobs would be lost. They were wrong to do so, and it's to Labour's credit that they brought it in, something the Tories have acknowledged.

I assume any reluctance to raise the minimum wage is based on the same argument, that jobs may be lost. I can't say whether they are right or wrong, just that when someone goes out and does a hard week's work, whatever that work, they should be properly rewarded.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Spot the link here then Goldie -

Michael Fallon - Conservative MP for Sevenoaks – Former Director of Attendo AB 2008 – 2013 - a Swedish private health company offering care and social care. The register of interests show, he receives an annual fee of £13,954.88 net, for approximately 20hrs work. Bridgepoint the private equity firm which acquired Care UK, whose chairman John Nash bankrolled Andrew Lansley’s office just prior to the takeover, has also invested in Attendo AB.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Here's Daves.....

Dvid Cameron - Nursing and care home tycoon Dolar Popat has given the Conservatives £209,000. The Ugandan-born dad-of-three has amassed an estimated £42million fortune as founder and chief of TLC Group, which provides services for the elderly. Mr Cameron made the businessman a peer shortly after entering No10 in May 2010, and Lord Popat’s donations include a £25,000 gift registered a week after the Tories’ health reforms were unveiled last July.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...thcare-firms-set-for-bonanza-115875-22859373/

In 2005 Cameron received£1,500 from Care home property company Chiltern Care Holdings - electoral commission

Can't comment on the sum to Cameron personally -,presumably he declared it - but the other stuff is cash for honours which stinks and permeates both Tory and Labour governments. Blair was keen on them if you recall.

A good argument for having an elected House of Lords which the Lib Dems pressed for and failed to get (and thus withdrew their support for boundary changes)

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Bit late to this party Pils........I like someone who backs up his arguments. Of course there are corrupt links, but most of what you have posted there is from before Lansley was a minister. Doesn't mean he wasn't influenced later, but you'd be much more convincing having a go at him for a wasteful and pointless reorganisation.

Of the £100bn plus per year spent on the NHS less than £10bn goes to contracted out services, a lot of this to charitable/not for profit providers. And of course the vast majority of GP services are contracted out (not included in the £10bn) technically privatised. GPs are self employed. Do you think the NHS should be pickled in aspic? As long as it is free at the point of delivery, paid for out of general taxation (or perhaps a hypothecated health tax) and provides timely, high quality services in decent facilities with outcomes comparable with other big Western European countries I don't really care if the provider is public or private sector. Of course these countries currently have better outcomes overall than us and much more private sector health care provision, paid for from compulsory state run health insurance.

Of course you are absolutely correct with regards Lansleys reorganisation "skills"- but tbh I was just picking random info to demonstrate to Goldie that the NHS really is in the process of being privatised and to show just how incestuous the relationship between Government and the private corporations involved really is.

 

[Bush Rhino]

Don't be so pompous, Chaz, can't you recognise sarcasm? You are not helping by accusing people of sour grapes and whining.

Much of what I have heard from Tories since Friday morning has been of a gloating nature. You won, we get it, but people should be entitled to express concerns over what unfettered Toryism will bring in the next five years.

Because joking about infanticide is just hilarious. Its either in poor taste or not funny, I'm sure you will have an opinion on this Stroller, I do.

If you are going to bash a Tory, it is usually quite easy but I think you appear to have gone slightly wide of the mark with these comments. A little bit like the Junior Hoilett of the Left Wing brigade.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Spot the link here then Goldie -

Michael Fallon - Conservative MP for Sevenoaks – Former Director of Attendo AB 2008 – 2013 - a Swedish private health company offering care and social care. The register of interests show, he receives an annual fee of £13,954.88 net, for approximately 20hrs work. Bridgepoint the private equity firm which acquired Care UK, whose chairman John Nash bankrolled Andrew Lansley’s office just prior to the takeover, has also invested in Attendo AB.

I guess the important thing is that all the facts are on the table when assessing the commercial value that Attendo gives to the NHS.

As to the fees, a lot of ex-ministers seem to be at it. Look at Rifkind and Straw. £5000 a day, nice work if you can get it

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Indeed Goldie...............scares the crap out of me my friend!

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

Because joking about infanticide is just hilarious. Its either in poor taste or not funny, I'm sure you will have an opinion on this Stroller, I do.If you are going to bash a Tory, it is usually quite easy but I think you appear to have gone slightly wide of the mark with these comments. A little bit like the Junior Hoilett of the Left Wing brigade.

In a hypothetical situation, which is the realm Stroller was operating in, infanticide could be a noble pursuit

 

[Bush Rhino]

In a hypothetical situation, which is the realm Stroller was operating in, infanticide could be a noble pursuit

Given my post stated how I feel uncomfortable with that variety of humour, I ask the following:

If the left are so opposed to fox hunting, then why is joking about dead children acceptable? Realms being irrelevant in this case.

****ed morality if you ask me.

 

[Stroller]

In a hypothetical situation, which is the realm Stroller was operating in, infanticide could be a noble pursuit

I don't think you're helping, Swords!

I hereby apologise to anyone offended by my lighthearted quip.

Can we move on now?