The left wing throw milkshakes, the right wing murder MPs and make rape threats. Ones a pain in the arse, the other is indescribably abhorrent.
Off Topic The politics thread
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Our local MP's have been crying out for a 'Peoples Vote'.
Since we are supposed to be leaving soon, these, pointless, EU Elections are an ideal opportunity to give them what they have asked for.
So, for me, it's my chance for a protest vote.
I could never in a million years have seen myself voting for Nigel, but times change and 'Politics' is a funny game.
So it's The Brexit Party for me.
And IF we end up staying in The EU I can at least have a laugh at the site of The Brexiteer's who get elected, disrupting things while feeding from the gravy train.
Since we are supposed to be leaving soon, these, pointless, EU Elections are an ideal opportunity to give them what they have asked for.
So, for me, it's my chance for a protest vote.
I could never in a million years have seen myself voting for Nigel, but times change and 'Politics' is a funny game.
So it's The Brexit Party for me.
And IF we end up staying in The EU I can at least have a laugh at the site of The Brexiteer's who get elected, disrupting things while feeding from the gravy train.
The two things are far from the same, but neither is acceptable. It's like kicking someone in the bollocks and saying "at least l didn't stab you". Just behave like a civilised human being...
Police have charged a man with common assault and criminal damage following an incident in Newcastle yesterday (Monday).
At around 1pm, a 55-year-old man had a milkshake thrown at him in the city centre.
A 32-year-old man was detained at the scene and arrested by police. He has now been charged with common assault and criminal damage.
Paul Crowther, 32, of Holeyn Road, Throckley, is due to appear before magistrates in North Tyneside on Tuesday, June 18th.
At around 1pm, a 55-year-old man had a milkshake thrown at him in the city centre.
A 32-year-old man was detained at the scene and arrested by police. He has now been charged with common assault and criminal damage.
Paul Crowther, 32, of Holeyn Road, Throckley, is due to appear before magistrates in North Tyneside on Tuesday, June 18th.
If only. Politics has become ridiculously polarised to the point where such acts are heralded rather than condemned. I’m no fan of Farage however he shouldn’t be assaulted like that.
On the other hand Nigel could learn a lot, in the PR sense from Jeremy Clarkson.
Even Jeremy's enemies, and he has more than a few amongst the 'Greens', had to applaud his reaction when he was hit by a pie (?) while collecting an Honorary Degree.
Good Shot was his reaction. AND he laughed.
Had Nigel behaved in a similar way, I suspect he would have picked up a few extra votes.
Anyone ever noticed you never see Nigel Farage and Kermit in the same room?
I am and always have been a labour party supporter and find Farage abhorrent. Corbyn must have a sore arse from sitting on the fence for so long.
However, although I want to trade with Europe I do not want to be in a political union with the EU.
I am also quite annoyed at several local MPs, despite coming from leave constituencies, say their voters are stupid/wrong and they are remain voting.
Who do I vote for on Thursday?
However, although I want to trade with Europe I do not want to be in a political union with the EU.
I am also quite annoyed at several local MPs, despite coming from leave constituencies, say their voters are stupid/wrong and they are remain voting.
Who do I vote for on Thursday?
Nige, obvs. Do you think he's going to form a government? It's the ultimate protest vote!
You aren't voting for Farage to lead the country. It's a protest vote which will send a message and the more Brexit MEP's we vote in, the more they'll disrupt from within.
After the recent local elections where labour did, by there usual standards, rather poorly, the Leader of the local Party made what I took as being a thinly veiled attack on our local MP's who he seemed to blame for this.
Will any of this make these people change their stance?
I aint holding my breath.
A very cogent and impressive piece and if that sound patronising it isn't meant to be.
And yet many of those in favour of remaining will insist the those in favour of leaving don't know enough to have made a rational decision when they voted to leave.
In my, admittedly limited experience though it's the Brexit People who have logical reasons for wanting to leave.
And none of those favouring Brexit that I've spoken to has even mentioned immigration as being an issue.
Those in favour of staying bring it up regularly though.
I promised myself I wasn't going to get involved with this again but... what's wrong with any of those things? What's wrong with a 'United States of Europe' (and I'm pretty certain it won't go that far)? In a globalised world we're stronger together. There's safety in numbers as they say. After all, that's why Italy, for example, was formed in 1861. If we're going to go on about this, I demand freedom for the Parisii. I refuse to be ruled by those bloody Atrebates.
I wonder if it is politicians especially EU ones who hate their idea of a United States of Europe disappearing.
One if the big problems with trying to force a United States of Europe, is that as in physics if you force disparate elements together it often explodes. As is happening now in a minor way. Given a 100 years of independent states trading, political union might then occur naturally.
As for trade, I would argue that the UK businesses will trade with Europe if there is profit in it and vici versa of course. Politicians just need to keep out of the way and stop bemoaning their lack of power/graft and make it frictionless as possible. Its politicians who make the rules up as they go along and they need to reliase we do need or believe in we have said this and it cannot change.
Most Labour MPs do not have a clue about business and how it works so are frankly talking down to us out of their backsides.
One if the big problems with trying to force a United States of Europe, is that as in physics if you force disparate elements together it often explodes. As is happening now in a minor way. Given a 100 years of independent states trading, political union might then occur naturally.
As for trade, I would argue that the UK businesses will trade with Europe if there is profit in it and vici versa of course. Politicians just need to keep out of the way and stop bemoaning their lack of power/graft and make it frictionless as possible. Its politicians who make the rules up as they go along and they need to reliase we do need or believe in we have said this and it cannot change.
Most Labour MPs do not have a clue about business and how it works so are frankly talking down to us out of their backsides.
First we have remainers and mps who personally didn't like the outcome saying it should be overturned, ignored and erased from history. Now, apparently , some Game of Thrones fans who personally didn't like the outcome want it to be rewritten and done again. Where will it all end.........
God forbid, if the worst happens on Sunday I want it replayed until we win.
[QUOTE="The Norton Cat, post: 12843030, member: 1038015"]I promised myself I wasn't going to get involved with this again but... what's wrong with any of those things? What's wrong with a 'United States of Europe' (and I'm pretty certain it won't go that far)? In a globalised world we're stronger together. There's safety in numbers as they say. After all, that's why Italy, for example, was formed in 1861. If we're going to go on about this, I demand freedom for the Parisii. I refuse to be ruled by those bloody Atrebates.[/QUOTE]
I made the same promise, but I just can not help myself on this one.
However you ask a fair question and I'll TRY my version of an answer, although I can't match the logic of Sid's posting.
The United States was formed at a time when the (white) population was made up of a population of mainly British extraction.
They were culturally the same. Their diversions came later.
The joining together of The States was forced upon them by the need to win political control over their own affairs.
The population was much more divided over the issue than you might think, but 'The Leavers' were in the majority.
They wanted to expand and needed their collective strength to do it.
There seems to me to be no logical reason for a similar POLITICAL Union in Europe.
A TRADING UNION, yes, but that's all.
Historically, we have successfully resisted being politically controlled by European Countries, (France and Germany) for the last two hundred years.
Why give in now?
We have little in common culturally with Southern Europe in particular.
We have a totally different legal system but are becoming more and more subject to The European Court.
Nor do we YET have a lot in common politically and I find the rise of the European Right Wing somewhat disturbing.
In Europe, small countries and ethnic groups are trying to gain Independence.
The Soviet Union has been broken. Spain has her Northern Region wanting to break away.
Scotland and perhaps Wales are close to a majority in favour of forming their own political entity. Apart from The EU nowhere else on the Planet are Nations giving up their Sovereignty in favour of a larger conglomeration.
Meanwhile, in most European Countries there are active minorities who are also anti EU.
Whatever the problems, leaving this ship BEFORE it starts to sink might well be the smartest move
Then there are the Economic forecast to consider.
Despite not being in The Euro Bloc, GB has had to fork out for part of the financial mess that is Greece.
And While Spain, Portugal and Eire (in particular) are making a fair job of turning their economies round the Italians are going the other way and in France the refusal to pay for their own Social Welfare system has recently resulted in domestic chaos. They seem to be determined to head for financial disaster
The rise of the Right Wing Parties, far in excess of our relatively minor problems should also concern us.
So, these were my thoughts when I voted Leave.
Please feel free to disagree with me. That's a right we British have, (for now).
BUT, please don't tell me, as many remainer's do, that I have not though about the subject.
(Note to any politicians reading this. Telling me that I'm stupid will not in fact encourage me to vote your way).
I made the same promise, but I just can not help myself on this one.
However you ask a fair question and I'll TRY my version of an answer, although I can't match the logic of Sid's posting.
The United States was formed at a time when the (white) population was made up of a population of mainly British extraction.
They were culturally the same. Their diversions came later.
The joining together of The States was forced upon them by the need to win political control over their own affairs.
The population was much more divided over the issue than you might think, but 'The Leavers' were in the majority.
They wanted to expand and needed their collective strength to do it.
There seems to me to be no logical reason for a similar POLITICAL Union in Europe.
A TRADING UNION, yes, but that's all.
Historically, we have successfully resisted being politically controlled by European Countries, (France and Germany) for the last two hundred years.
Why give in now?
We have little in common culturally with Southern Europe in particular.
We have a totally different legal system but are becoming more and more subject to The European Court.
Nor do we YET have a lot in common politically and I find the rise of the European Right Wing somewhat disturbing.
In Europe, small countries and ethnic groups are trying to gain Independence.
The Soviet Union has been broken. Spain has her Northern Region wanting to break away.
Scotland and perhaps Wales are close to a majority in favour of forming their own political entity. Apart from The EU nowhere else on the Planet are Nations giving up their Sovereignty in favour of a larger conglomeration.
Meanwhile, in most European Countries there are active minorities who are also anti EU.
Whatever the problems, leaving this ship BEFORE it starts to sink might well be the smartest move
Then there are the Economic forecast to consider.
Despite not being in The Euro Bloc, GB has had to fork out for part of the financial mess that is Greece.
And While Spain, Portugal and Eire (in particular) are making a fair job of turning their economies round the Italians are going the other way and in France the refusal to pay for their own Social Welfare system has recently resulted in domestic chaos. They seem to be determined to head for financial disaster
The rise of the Right Wing Parties, far in excess of our relatively minor problems should also concern us.
So, these were my thoughts when I voted Leave.
Please feel free to disagree with me. That's a right we British have, (for now).
BUT, please don't tell me, as many remainer's do, that I have not though about the subject.
(Note to any politicians reading this. Telling me that I'm stupid will not in fact encourage me to vote your way).
I agree with you. A trading union is far more preferable to a political union and despite voting remain, I have always disliked the idea of a Federal Europe. As an aside, I think your argument is much more eloquent than Sid's because that to me was simply a slightly intellectualised version of 'we don't want to be told what to do by a bunch of foreigners'.
I disagree about the cultural differences between us and the Europeans though. To start with, depending upon which model you believe, we're all descended from Danes/Dutch/Germans anyway. Linguistically we're very similar. Some Dutch dialects sound very English and there are many Scandinavian words used in north-east dialects. On a personal level, I feel that I have more in common with a Spaniard, Italian, or Greek than I do an American.
As for the rise of the right, that's always been there in mainland Europe and its presence has fluctuated over time. Taking football as an example, you only have to look Italian fan groups and their political affiliations to see that political extremes have always been visible parts of society in Europe. The Lega Nord, for example, has always been lurking in the background in Italy. But, the pendulum swings, and during periods of economic downturn, society in general becomes more nationalistic, more right-wing. The pendulum will swing back the other way eventually. It's a case of maintaining as much equilibrium as possible until the swing back occurs. The majority of Europe favours liberal democracy and so the right, while possibly having some breakthroughs from time to time, will always find it tough to gain a complete foothold. Don't forget, this rise is counterbalanced by a similar rise on the left- the UK Labour Party is currently lead by someone who was previously considered to be too far to the left to be taken seriously.
There are plenty of places wanting to separate from larger conglomeration. As you say, Catalonia and the Basques have long wanted to leave Spain, and Wales and Scotland both want to go their own way. Plaid Cymru and the SNP, despite wanting to be separate from the UK, want their smaller nations to JOIN the EU.
You may be right, the EU might be a sinking ship. Europe might be about to collapse in on itself. Personally, I just don't see that happening- the pendulum that I spoke of will start to swing back the other way. I can understand the dissatisfaction with the EU and the fears. I just think that acting on that dissatisfaction by leaving is a rash act, brought on by factors which, while undesirable, are only short term and which will eventually change. If we leave now, we could miss out in a big way. You have to take the rough with the smooth.
I disagree about the cultural differences between us and the Europeans though. To start with, depending upon which model you believe, we're all descended from Danes/Dutch/Germans anyway. Linguistically we're very similar. Some Dutch dialects sound very English and there are many Scandinavian words used in north-east dialects. On a personal level, I feel that I have more in common with a Spaniard, Italian, or Greek than I do an American.
As for the rise of the right, that's always been there in mainland Europe and its presence has fluctuated over time. Taking football as an example, you only have to look Italian fan groups and their political affiliations to see that political extremes have always been visible parts of society in Europe. The Lega Nord, for example, has always been lurking in the background in Italy. But, the pendulum swings, and during periods of economic downturn, society in general becomes more nationalistic, more right-wing. The pendulum will swing back the other way eventually. It's a case of maintaining as much equilibrium as possible until the swing back occurs. The majority of Europe favours liberal democracy and so the right, while possibly having some breakthroughs from time to time, will always find it tough to gain a complete foothold. Don't forget, this rise is counterbalanced by a similar rise on the left- the UK Labour Party is currently lead by someone who was previously considered to be too far to the left to be taken seriously.
There are plenty of places wanting to separate from larger conglomeration. As you say, Catalonia and the Basques have long wanted to leave Spain, and Wales and Scotland both want to go their own way. Plaid Cymru and the SNP, despite wanting to be separate from the UK, want their smaller nations to JOIN the EU.
You may be right, the EU might be a sinking ship. Europe might be about to collapse in on itself. Personally, I just don't see that happening- the pendulum that I spoke of will start to swing back the other way. I can understand the dissatisfaction with the EU and the fears. I just think that acting on that dissatisfaction by leaving is a rash act, brought on by factors which, while undesirable, are only short term and which will eventually change. If we leave now, we could miss out in a big way. You have to take the rough with the smooth.
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This has been part of the problem with the overall debate. It's not that what I said was "intellectual" or "eloquent", but rather that it put forward a series of arguments which pointed me towards voting to leave. You, along with many remainers I've had discussions with, really don't seem to be interested in what people who voted to leave actually think, but are happy to fit what they say into a convenient box with a label on it. My box appears to be the "Little Englander" box, as I'm simply someone who doesn't want to be told what to do by Johnny Foreigner.
As for my view on a federal Europe (per your comment: "What's wrong with a 'United States of Europe'?"), this is that it simply won't work. Supranational entities never do and I have the entire human history from which to draw evidence. Perhaps the most telling examples are recent European ones, from the late 20th century; The USSR, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. The first two are perhaps unsurprising, held together as they were by communist tyranny, but the break-up of Czechoslovakia just illustrates how fragile these things are. The Czechs and Slovaks actually like each other and yet they STILL wanted a separate existence for largely historical reasons. Even today, two EU member states are close to breaking up, namely the UK and Spain. The UK and the Kingdom of Spain are relatively recent amalgamations of countries that existed independently for centuries before unification and both have significant independence movements in their constituent parts. How then do you expect an amalgamated EU to hold together when you're talking about 27 widely different nations in terms of history, culture and economies? It's just madness to me and begs a complete re-think of what the EU is all about...
Sid gives it large he's better than Farage will be our ralling call, when you run for P.M. marra you have my vote