Off Topic The Politics Thread

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DonCorleone said:
The myth that the tories are always clearing up labours mess is easily debunked. Only two labour governments have left office with national debt higher than it was when they came into power. Every other labour government have lowered debt as a percentage of GDP. Those two governments coincided with the 1929 Wall Street crash and the global recession back in 08.

In osbournes first three years as exchequer, he added more to the national debt than the 'irresponsible' Labour Party did in the previous 13 years. In 4 years he added more debt in real terms than every labour chancellor combined. Does increasing national debt by 26% in 5 years (compared to labours 11% in 13 years, with a major recession to boot) count as clearing up labours mess?

He oversaw the UK being stripped of its AAA credit rating, along with the longest sustained decline in wages in economic history. Missed almost all economic targets.

As a result of osbournes austerity, there has been a massive rebalance of the economy. A huge increase in wealth for the 1% and a large reduction in the living standards of the majority. Mainly due to wage repression, cuts to in-work benefits, inflation in the costs of transport, fuel, housing and food. The increased vat rate doesn't help, either.

So, despite the Tory mantra of austerity, to justify their campaign of social security cuts, infrastructure neglect and hasty privatisations, the Tories haven't saved any money at all. In fact they've borrowed and borrowed and borrowed. Austerity is a scam designed to do nothing more than transfer wealth from the poor and ordinary to the super rich.

The Tory party have absolutely no interest in saving money. They are just doing precisely what they have always done - which is to serve the interests of the wealthy establishment minority at the expense of the rest of society. They have dressed up their same old Thatcherite policies (hasty privatisations, deregulated financial markets, defunding of government services, wage repression for the majority, tax cuts for corporations and the super rich) as the medicine to cure an economic crisis that was caused by these exact same policies.

1/10 for dear George.
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Unfortunately I am old enough to remember 1979, when during Jim Callaghan's Winter of Discontent the dead went unburied, rubbish piled up in the streets, and hospital operations were cancelled. We had spiralling unemployment at that time, and inflation rates in excess of 20%. Hence union wage demands for 20% plus increases. Crisis, what crisis ? It took a Conservative Government to come in and tame the trades unions, smashing Marxists like Scargill and the miners along the way, and begin through privatisation the reform of state monoliths like British Steel, British Coal and British Leyland. And British Gas and British Telecom. Under Labour the State decided when you could have a telephone installed, and how many spoilers your Austin Allegro would have. So forgive me Don for suggesting that the Conservatives cleared up a little bit of an economic crisis there.

Regarding Osborne and your 1/10 - PMSL <laugh>

Not the best, but by no means the worst either. Unemployment and inflation remained historically very low, and lots of good work was done on supply side measures like apprenticeships. Labour from 1997 until the banking crisis ran an historically high deficit because they were wedded to spending on pet projects. One example - Gordon Brown's barmy Working Tax Credits - basically a bribe to make working people vote Labour. This budget increased by more than tenfold. Why is the State paying a working man a top up ??.

As for private equity - PMSL again.

Remind me who introduced the truly disastrous PFI into the NHS. Remind me again who introduced University Tuition Fees, having promised in their manifesto not to do so.

Labour makes the mess, Conservatives clear it up :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious said:
Is PMSL a HOC term?
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I sometimes think it would be good for the young idealistic Left to live under a REAL Labour Government. Not the Tory-lite version we had under Blair and Brown, but a real one which you would get under Corbyn. Then you would have Len McCluskey and the ASLEF leader in No.10 every day for beer and sandwiches, you would have nuclear surrender, a population of 80m because of unfettered immigration, and a collapse of living standards, stagflation and depression as the economically illiterate Corbyn crashed the UK economy. Then the IMF would have to step in, just like they did for Labour in the 70s.

Young idealistic Lefties (and @ForestHillBilly <laugh>) - be careful what you wish for. These people really are dangerous.
 
I first got interested in politics at the 1964 election. I went to hear Royston's hero Enoch POwell speak in Kilmarnock, in a whistle-stop tour. He gave an impassioned speech, lasting 25 minutes without notes, about why he was a conservative, how the trickle-down effect worked for the benefit of everyone. It was really impressive, and I was quite convinced for a while. Looking back, I'd say he really did believe it. Maybe it did work up to a point at that time. But at a time when the richest 8 people in the world have more wealth than the poorest 50%, the trickle is now defying gravity.
 
Nigel Leafblower said:
Unfortunately I am old enough to remember 1979, when during Jim Callaghan's Winter of Discontent the dead went unburied, rubbish piled up in the streets, and hospital operations were cancelled. We had spiralling unemployment at that time, and inflation rates in excess of 20%. Hence union wage demands for 20% plus increases. Crisis, what crisis ? It took a Conservative Government to come in and tame the trades unions, smashing Marxists like Scargill and the miners along the way, and begin through privatisation the reform of state monoliths like British Steel, British Coal and British Leyland. And British Gas and British Telecom. Under Labour the State decided when you could have a telephone installed, and how many spoilers your Austin Allegro would have. So forgive me Don for suggesting that the Conservatives cleared up a little bit of an economic crisis there.

Regarding Osborne and your 1/10 - PMSL <laugh>

Not the best, but by no means the worst either. Unemployment and inflation remained historically very low, and lots of good work was done on supply side measures like apprenticeships. Labour from 1997 until the banking crisis ran an historically high deficit because they were wedded to spending on pet projects. One example - Gordon Brown's barmy Working Tax Credits - basically a bribe to make working people vote Labour. This budget increased by more than tenfold. Why is the State paying a working man a top up ??.

As for private equity - PMSL again.

Remind me who introduced the truly disastrous PFI into the NHS. Remind me again who introduced University Tuition Fees, having promised in their manifesto not to do so.

Labour makes the mess, Conservatives clear it up :emoticon-0148-yes:
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I'm not a labour fan, nor was I alive in 1979 so that's irrelevant to my post.

Unemployment is indeed low - recovery of the global economy is always going to lead to more jobs. Whilst low unemployment is always a good thing, how many are on zero hour minimum wage contracts?

As for inflation, again low and stable -Benefits and negatives to that.

My post was mainly regarding Osbourne, as he and Cameron continually spoke about the mess they inherited, But Osbournes austerity has lead to a huge increase in national debt and lower living standards for the average Brit. Those are two things that cannot be refuted.
Nigel Leafblower said:
I sometimes think it would be good for the young idealistic Left to live under a REAL Labour Government. Not the Tory-lite version we had under Blair and Brown, but a real one which you would get under Corbyn. Then you would have Len McCluskey and the ASLEF leader in No.10 every day for beer and sandwiches, you would have nuclear surrender, a population of 80m because of unfettered immigration, and a collapse of living standards, stagflation and depression as the economically illiterate Corbyn crashed the UK economy. Then the IMF would have to step in, just like they did for Labour in the 70s.

Young idealistic Lefties (and @ForestHillBilly <laugh>) - be careful what you wish for. These people really are dangerous.
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Living standards have collapsed under the Tory government, though?

I agree Corbyn would be a disaster, but nuclear disarmament is his only sensible policy.
 
ForestHillBilly said:
They must be drastically overmanned in the Westminster kitchens, unless Royston can make sarnies and tweet/post at the same time. Privatise the Westminster kitchens, I say.
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He'll be replaced by a vending and washing machine soon enough. Wonder if he'll contact his union rep?
 
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All ex-presidents have the sense to stay completely out of politics once they retire. David Cameron seems to be following their example, now that he has gone back to grouse-shooting. But ex-premiers like Heath, Thatcher, Major, and especially Blair have been unable to resist poking their noses in long after their time has gone. Heath's incredible sulk was awesome, but Blair takes the cake for sheer brass neck, becoming a middle-east peace envoy.
 
ForestHillBilly said:
All ex-presidents have the sense to stay completely out of politics once they retire. David Cameron seems to be following their example, now that he has gone back to grouse-shooting. But ex-premiers like Heath, Thatcher, Major, and especially Blair have been unable to resist poking their noses in long after their time has gone. Heath's incredible sulk was awesome, but Blair takes the cake for sheer brass neck, becoming a middle-east peace envoy.
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The VIPs have taken their seats on the stage for the swearing-in.

The cameras honed in on Hillary Clinton - fixed grin and all. Politics is a cruel game <wah>
 
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