Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Uber_Hoop]

Osborne is (until tomorrow at least) still Chancellor - where he will be after the new cabinet is announced is anyone's guess, but he'll be there, mark my words. Cameron's hand was forced when the result was announced, but he's not whined, he's stated that he would not be the one implementing it and stood aside.

Neither of these 'ran away' like Johnson, Farage, IDS and Gove. Not with the stench of so much blatant lying following them in their wake.

Farage's behaviour is, of course, not beyond reproach but, in fairness to the man, he's never been in a position of governmental power. He headed up a protest party somewhat on the periphery of things which never had a remote chance of wielding any real power either side of the referendum. Whether he remained as UKIP leader or he effs off and does "I'm A Non-Entity..." is something on an inconsequence in the grand scheme of things. Was anybody seriously expecting him to become a member of the Brexit negotiating team?

 

[TheBigDipper]

And I thought I was the cynical one, TheBigDipper!

Yes, of course, big business is cynical too, but let's not yet rule out the possibility that Siemens simply regard the UK as a marketplace in which they still wish to remain a player, whether in the EU or otherwise. They may have UK supplier relationships that they wish to maintain, or a skilled UK labour force that they value, or, as I said before, believe it easier to do business in the UK if they keep a presence in the UK. These are not beyond the realms of possibility too, are they?

All totally valid, credible points - except the one about me being cynical, honest!

Ever heard the saying "A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist?". That's been the bedrock of my entire working life in the cesspool of corporate business. I'm the realist, I look like a pessimist to optimists and I get my stuff in on time and under budget because I planned in advance for the pitfalls that might appear.

All I was doing was pointing out reasons why your suggestion that Siemens statement proved something about our post-Brexit future may not be valid. I hope it does, but I bet that wasn't in Siemens minds when they said it.

 

[durbar2003]

When is Siemens leaving?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

All totally valid, credible points - except the one about me being cynical, honest!

Ever heard the saying "A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist?". That's been the bedrock of my entire working life in the cesspool of corporate business. I'm the realist, I look like a pessimist to optimists and I get my stuff in on time and under budget because I planned in advance for the pitfalls that might appear.

All I was doing was pointing out reasons why your suggestion that Siemens statement proved something about our post-Brexit future may not be valid. I hope it does, but I bet that wasn't in Siemens minds when they said it.

One swallow doesn't make a bukkake party, of course, but I very much hope that we see more businesses stepping forward to make similar statements.

 

[sb_73]

12 energy companies have dumped their fixed price tariffs citing rising gas and electricity wholesale costs post Brexit and falling £ (bit of a bounce back today, it's good to have a leader. If she has a plan it will be even better). Average increase in gas and electricity costs £105 per household. We remain dependent on gas and power from Europe and beyond, though solar overtook coal as a power source briefly recently.

Good chance that the UK might be attractive to foreign investors going forward if whoever is the next Chancellor sticks to the low corporate tax regime Osborne wants (though how that sits with May's pretty anti big business rhetoric of yesterday who knows) and if the £ settles permanently lower we can specialise in exporting stuff cheap.

 

[rangercol]

Just don't voice any concerns or diversity of opinion out loud and keep humming 'the sun has got his hat on', and democracy will do you proud Matt.

What benefits have you noticed so far Col? The workers of Forterra, brick maker, which has closed two plants in Lancashire because of the near instant downturn in construction, and Lush, cosmetics, which is closing its factory in Poole and opening one in Düsseldorf, explicitly because of Brexit, may be interested to know. As will anyone who's pension fund doesn't give them a defined benefit and has investments in building, airlines, banks and worst of all commercial property. We will never know the number of jobs that have not been created because of cancelled investments. Branson claims 3,000 just for Virgin, but I would concede that he is such a pro Remainer that this may not be entirely reliable. The 50 attack helicopters we are buying from the US will cost £250m more because of the fall in sterling.

This doesn't give me any pleasure at all mate I would be delighted to be proved completely wrong as this thing unravels.

Agree on May, she looks better placed to have a civilized negotiation than any of her rivals did, and she doesn't look like a soft touch. I don't trust her at all of course, but then you wouldn't expect me to.

It's not all doom and gloom.
The FTSE100 hit an 11 month high yesterday;
The FTSE250 was up 3.5%;
The pound leapt against the dollar and euro;
Boeing is planning to build a £100million British site in a £3billion deal supplying the UK with new marine patrol planes;
The London Index is up 20% on this year's low;
At the Farnborough air show, firms have announced multi-billion pound deals;
Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic have aigned a £3.4billion order with Airbus for 12 aircraft. The wings to be made in the UK and Rolls Royce will supply engines;
Shares in several house building companies have risen more than 7%;
Banks have had a rally in share prices.
Hardly armageddon.

 

[rangercol]

Osborne is (until tomorrow at least) still Chancellor - where he will be after the new cabinet is announced is anyone's guess, but he'll be there, mark my words. Cameron's hand was forced when the result was announced, but he's not whined, he's stated that he would not be the one implementing it and stood aside.

Neither of these 'ran away' like Johnson, Farage, IDS and Gove. Not with the stench of so much blatant lying following them in their wake.

Farage has achieved everything he set out to do.
Out of all of them, he's the one entitled to walk away with the job done.

 

[durbar2003]

Doom and Gloom

 

[ELLERS]

Neither of these 'ran away' like Johnson, Farage, IDS and Gove. Not with the stench of so much blatant lying following them in their wake.

They didn't need to 'run away' they failed because they tried to put the fear of god into the Brexit voters. Osbourne will not get a post (i think anyway). However i can see some of the brexit team getting jobs.

 

[Rangers Til I Die]

I fear the Brexiters are not going to like this.
Last week I got an email telling me the famous petition was done, dusted and out.
Today I get an email to inform me that the petitions committee has decided it will be discussed afterall!
Coincidence with appointment of TM, due process or conspiracy?

 

[sb_73]

It's not all doom and gloom.
The FTSE100 hit an 11 month high yesterday;
The FTSE250 was up 3.5%;
The pound leapt against the dollar and euro;
Boeing is planning to build a £100million British site in a £3billion deal supplying the UK with new marine patrol planes;
The London Index is up 20% on this year's low;
At the Farnborough air show, firms have announced multi-billion pound deals;
Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic have aigned a £3.4billion order with Airbus for 12 aircraft. The wings to be made in the UK and Rolls Royce will supply engines;
Shares in several house building companies have risen more than 7%;
Banks have had a rally in share prices.
Hardly armageddon.

Fair enough Col. Good to see someone has the effort to find some alternative perspectives.

 

[ELLERS]

Don't be mistaken into thinking there's any benevolence in big business. If it becomes financially unsustainable to be based in the UK compared with on Mainland Europe, companies WILL relocate. That's a risk we now have to face, depending on the trade arrangements to be negotiated.

I wonder if people realise how much is at stake here, and if it doesn't go well, how hard the hit is that UK Plc will take? (By the way, it doesn't matter whether you think it will go well, all that matters is if businesses think it'll go well or not)

My mate worked for a German company here and they relocated to France laying off 400, Guess what that was 4-6 years ago when we were in the EU. It happens all the time. Companies move around to save money. As for the line 'I wonder if people realise how much is at stake here' ? You sound like project fear. Not all Brexit voters are thick racists.

 

[ELLERS]

It's not all doom and gloom.
The FTSE100 hit an 11 month high yesterday;
The FTSE250 was up 3.5%;
The pound leapt against the dollar and euro;
Boeing is planning to build a £100million British site in a £3billion deal supplying the UK with new marine patrol planes;
The London Index is up 20% on this year's low;
At the Farnborough air show, firms have announced multi-billion pound deals;
Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic have aigned a £3.4billion order with Airbus for 12 aircraft. The wings to be made in the UK and Rolls Royce will supply engines;
Shares in several house building companies have risen more than 7%;
Banks have had a rally in share prices.
Hardly armageddon.

I don't think it matters what you say Col. A lot of the remain voters are so doom and gloom. I said recently that a respected business analyst said we were better out of the EU and it was dismissed.
I for one am looking forward to the future out of the EU and from what i keep hearing on the business channel, the UK is in a very good position to get good deals.

 

[ELLERS]

I fear the Brexiters are not going to like this.
Last week I got an email telling me the famous petition was done, dusted and out.
Today I get an email to inform me that the petitions committee has decided it will be discussed afterall!
Coincidence with appointment of TM, due process or conspiracy?

RTID, there will be a debate and the outcome will be the same.

 

[sb_73]

Labour Party preparing to eat itself, and getting nasty with bricks through windows, much nastiness at a party meeting in Brighton from both sides apparently. From what I have just heard on the news all those people who have joined Labour in the last couple of weeks won't get a vote, unless they pay an extra £25 and if the £3 members from last year haven't stumped up £25 for this year, neither will they. Still would expect Corbyn to win and the party to split, probably a good result for the country.

 

[Stroller]

I agree our border security leaves much to be desired, Chaz, and must be radically improved. If there is a political will, we certainly can control immigration numbers.

Who's been responsible for border security and immigration control for the last 6 years?

 

[ELLERS]

Labour Party preparing to eat itself, and getting nasty with bricks through windows, much nastiness at a party meeting in Brighton from both sides apparently. From what I have just heard on the news all those people who have joined Labour in the last couple of weeks won't get a vote, and if the £3 members from last year haven't stumped up £25 for this year, neither will they. Still would expect Corbyn to win and the party to split, probably a good result for the country.

Yes Sb i heard the same. Seems to be a bit of a fix. The bricks and stuff is wrong and the idiots that do that need to get a life. Labour are in a mess and if a snap GE was called, they would get stuffed.

 

[ELLERS]

Who's been responsible for border security and immigration control for the last 6 years?

That was May but her hands were tied. She had no say on numbers but it will be different in the future.
I said before she didn't get the nickname Teresa 'deport' May for nothing.

 

[sb_73]

Yes Sb i heard the same. Seems to be a bit of a fix. The bricks and stuff is wrong and the idiots that do that need to get a life. Labour are in a mess and if a snap GE was called, they would get stuffed.

I think May could be regretting saying she wouldn't call a quick election. I think people are craving a bit of stability and direction, and she would be the obvious choice before the minutiae of Brexit negotiations and debate gets overwhelming, and possibly divisive again within the Tory party. UKIP leaderless, Tories have a relatively popular leader in Scotland and nothing to lose there, Lib Dems invisible.

 

[Stroller]

That was May but her hands were tied. She had no say on numbers but it will be different in the future.
I said before she didn't get the nickname Teresa 'deport' May for nothing.

She got a tough reputation but that was all spin. She was actually an abject failure.....

https://peterreynolds.wordpress.com...t-home-secretary-theresa-may-tried-to-censor/