Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Chaz]

As well as the Japanese cars you mention, Jaguar, Range Rover and Bentley would benefit from a tax on EU cars

As to wines, Prosecco? Are you joking? Are you ignorant about the rise in English sparkling wines? There are huge vineyards in the South of England and they're winning prizes. They're better than a lot of Champagne houses and would be given a huge boost if there was a tariff on French wines

I have transcribed the Digby Jones interview accurately. You can listen to it yourself. It's on a podcast for today on BBC 5 Live - 606, Wake Up to Money. The Digby Jones interview is approximately 33 minutes and 50 seconds in.

I have no idea whether this link will work but I'll put it in anyway:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07172yh#play

The people who buy jaguar and Range rover now will still buy irrespective if we are in or out. The people who buy BMW or merceddes will still buy them irrespective of of we are in or out.

Very few people buy British wine over foreign wine, no matter how good (and I know a place outside Hambledon that is very good indeed, so no - I'm NOT ignorant) and that won't change one iota. because people buy wines for the label and the taste, not for the price. Prosecco is a very, very popular drink at present, and will remain so. There's a huge price range already in wines (and mid-range and upwards cars) and any impact of additional taxation will not even be noticed by most.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The people who buy jaguar and Range rover now will still buy irrespective if we are in or out. The people who buy BMW or merceddes will still buy them irrespective of of we are in or out.

Very few people buy British wine over foreign wine, no matter how good (and I know a place outside Hambledon that is very good indeed, so no - I'm NOT ignorant) and that won't change one iota. because people buy wines for the label and the taste, not for the price. Prosecco is a very, very popular drink at present, and will remain so. There's a huge price range already in wines (and mid-range and upwards cars) and any impact of additional taxation will not even be noticed by most.

Effectively, what you're saying is that the German Automotive Industry and the French Wine Industry will be relaxed if tariffs are put on their goods coming into the UK. That their goods will be purchased regardless of price. Some will, but buyers on the margins will look elsewhere. I think there'd be huge pressure on Merkel and Hollande if this came about, but, hey, that's just my view

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I very much doubt we'll have tariffs on imports/exports to and from Europe. Free trade is hardly a new phenomenon.

 

[Chaz]

Effectively, what you're saying is that the German Automotive Industry and the French Wine Industry will be relaxed if tariffs are put on their goods coming into the UK. That their goods will be purchased regardless of price. Some will, but buyers on the margins will look elsewhere. I think there'd be huge pressure on Merkel and Hollande if this came about, but, hey, that's just my view

I do not believe that there's such a thing as a 'buyer on the margin' when it comes to deciding on a Jaguar or a Mercedes. There's certainly no such thing as a 'buyer on the margin' when it comes to deciding between British sparkling wine and Champagne.

You might choose a cheaper loaf of bread, or brand of teabag. when spending upwards of £40k on a luxury motor, small differences in price becomes irrelevant.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I do not believe that there's such a thing as a 'buyer on the margin' when it comes to deciding on a Jaguar or a Mercedes. There's certainly no such thing as a 'buyer on the margin' when it comes to deciding between British sparkling wine and Champagne.

You might choose a cheaper loaf of bread, or brand of teabag. when spending upwards of £40k on a luxury motor, small differences in price becomes irrelevant.

Then we'll have to agree to differ, because value is probably more at the forefront of the minds of buyers in the UK now than it has been for many years. Whether cars or wine, the range of choices are good, and buyers carefully evaluate with each brand what they are getting for the money and seek out the best deals

 

[Chaz]

Then we'll have to agree to differ, because value is probably more at the forefront of the minds of buyers in the UK now than it has been for many years. Whether cars or wine, the range of choices are good, and buyers carefully evaluate with each brand what they are getting for the money and seek out the best deals

Generally, yes. However, with luxury cars, expensive wines, and that kind of thing, no. Price has never been the biggest factor, unless you are going to add twenty grand onto the price of a C-class Merc.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Generally, yes. However, with luxury cars, expensive wines, and that kind of thing, no. Price has never been the biggest factor, unless you are going to add twenty grand onto the price of a C-class Merc.

Hmm, well, I don't agree unless we're talking bankers spending bonuses. And not all German cars are luxury cars - a low end Volkswagon for example

 

[TootingExcess]

Such a shame we never got PR.

That way the Tories could split into a pro-European One-Nation Party and a Thatcherite UKIP party. Then Labour could split into Social Democrats and Trots.

We might've been able to actually vote for who we want for once, rather than the best of a bad bunch.

 

[Chaz]

Hmm, well, I don't agree unless we're talking bankers spending bonuses. And not all German cars are luxury cars - a low end Volkswagon for example

Well if you're going to being bankers bonuses into this, I guess you don't think any further than the standard leftist rhetoric. That's a shame - and also unusual as you're clearly in the Out party, which is traditionally going to be those on the right.

I specifically said 'luxury' cars, not 'low-end - I know for instance that Skoda is also German.

You're doing yourself no favours by going down the 'misinterpreting / bash the bankers' route. Many many people own nice cars that are not bankers. And many many people own low-end cars and earn a fortune.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Well if you're going to being bankers bonuses into this, I guess you don't think any further than the standard leftist rhetoric. That's a shame - and also unusual as you're clearly in the Out party, which is traditionally going to be those on the right.

You're doing yourself no favours by going down that route. Many many people own nice cars that are not bankers.

Leftish rhetoric? I have no idea what you're on about, Chaz.

What I'm saying is that if someone has money burning a hole in their pocket, they may not be put off paying a few more thousands for a smart car because of added import taxes - but most people who wish to buy such a car will include price in their evaluations when choosing between manufacturers

 

[TimPR78]

A facebook 'friend' from my old school days posted an 'article' saying that a soldier had been refused to be served in a Tesco in London because he was wearing his uniform and it might offend the Muslims.

I responded to him advising this has never happened and it's sensationalist bullshit to stir up hatred, furthermore Tesco would have every right to sue him for defamation. Before he took the post down someone else had commented (after my comments) this makes me sick! And shared the post anyway., facts and information mean nothing to some people

 

[Deleted 1]

A facebook 'friend' from my old school days posted an 'article' saying that a soldier had been refused to be served in a Tesco in London because he was wearing his uniform and it might offend the Muslims.

I responded to him advising this has never happened and it's sensationalist bullshit to stir up hatred, furthermore Tesco would have every right to sue him for defamation. Before he took the post down someone else had commented (after my comments) this makes me sick! And shared the post anyway., facts and information mean nothing to some people

Let me guess - Britain first? I absolutely despise that group.

 

[TimPR78]

Let me guess - Britain first? I absolutely despise that group.

Not sure this one came from it, but if I was to find out that the originator supported the site I would hardly be surprised, why bother with things like facts and proof where sensationalist lies works so much better to push an agenda.

 

[kiwiqpr]

EDIT: I've just had a leaflet put through my door. From the Out campaign, it states, in huge red letters, that if we don't leave the EU, the NHS will die. Unbelievable. Blames the EU for everything even remotely negative that's happened in the past twenty years.

That's made my mind up, then. I'm not going to allow such pathetic, fearful, ignorant people to hijack this vital vote for their own ends. I'm voting to stay in.

When you get the equally scaremongering leaflet from the in camp what will you do then

 

[Chaz]

When you get the equally scaremongering leaflet from the in camp what will you do then

If such a thing arrives...

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

If such a thing arrives...

It won't. The Out campaigners will kill your foreign postman to stop it.

 

[TWGWTDT]

The trouble will not come from fear about buying stuff in your big ship it will come if Britain falls out with any European nation ... If the out vote wins
If you think the British public are united enough to take on anyone in say a dispute then we haven't git the minerals

 

[rangercol]

Time for me to bow out of the EU debate I think.
As Stan said previously, all that will happen is the same people making the same points. Also, I can see the way the debate could be heading, with insinuations of jingoism etc. I'm sure it won't be long before accusations of racism raise their head when immigration is discussed (a very tired and predictable way of killing debate).

I'll give my opinions on just one aspect of this issue, our security, one last time and then wait for the referendum:

European borders have become porous, allowing more and more extremists to flow through. Many of these find their way into Britain one way or another. We are facing a huge security threat from radical Islam, possibly our biggest threat since World War 2. Many European police forces, particularly the French, have a terrible reputation for inept investigation of Cultural crimes such as honour killings etc.
It's absolutely the right thing to want to help refugees, but unfortunately many of those migrants flooding into Europe are either economic migrants or jihadists or economic migrants with, at least, extreme views. As was the case in Germany on New Years Eve, many migrants live by different values to the people in the West. A new Interpol report estimates that there are now 5,000 jihadists on Britain's doorstep.
This is thought to be a very conservative figure and imo Europe is sitting on a time bomb!
There is every chance that terrorist attacks will rise and rise in Europe, including here.

We have many home-grown extremists here of course, but why increase the risks by putting our faith in Europe's borders and police forces?

I must be clear and say that I am not against immigration and I am of the opinion that our Country has been enriched by migrants who have settled here. We have a long history of mixed races going back to the Vikings, the Normans and Anglo-Saxons. We are a diverse and incredibly tolerant people imo.

However, the time has come to completely regain control of our borders. Brussels and Strasbourg have been worse than useless in protecting Europe's borders. NATO has kept the peace in Europe and will continue to do so. We must support NATO and get the hell out of the EU while we can.

Suffice to say that I will be voting to leave as a matter of principal. I believe that we can never be a truly sovereign Country whilst being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels etc.

This is the biggest vote of my lifetime imo.

 

[TWGWTDT]

What I mean is the UK has had its culture dissolved ,I can only compare what I see now every few weeks living in two places
Us in the UK are programmed to do well so much so its nearly in direct competition with each other. We out do the Jones whenever we can and its true you see it everyday
If a issue is raised then more often than not it is clouded by opinion or even worse apathy ... I'm alright Jack
Personal debt is high because on the whole it's tied into property and those who are in debt ie have big mortgages look down on people who haven't joined the idiot club
Research how many people in the south have moe than one property and buy to let... That is how we measure success . Cars the same a Englishman thinks his car actually extends 4m all around it and he owns that space. The car is new and clean and gleams with pride expect he doesn't owe it
Now I look st France where I live
People are hard but kind and if there is a problem for example the local council plants the wrong flowers then people rise up and unite can never see the Uk even muster a collective response as there will be a mix of apathy or ownership than prevent our current culture from the basis of any united front . We are too clever here and with that will never come agreement ... Look at this forum

The difference between European cultures and ours is that the people make it very strong that the people in power work for them and it's never forgotten . Here you are fed Chicken and bullshit while you watch a Circus and then spend any energy you may have on moaning about it

So fast forward and the OUT vote wins and a dispute takes place and France blocks its networks or products how will the UK respond?
Maybe they will unite again in which case I am wrong
Research how many companies you think are English are owned by the French or other European countries

I am telling you voting OUT will cause massive problems for the UK it's too crowded and the culture is ruined . I say again that the big companies will move at the blink of an eye , London will become Monaco
What that means for the rest it scars me big time, The north is a different country to the South now anyway
It will be madness

 

[TWGWTDT]

Time for me to bow out of the EU debate I think.
As Stan said previously, all that will happen is the same people making the same points. Also, I can see the way the debate could be heading, with insinuations of jingoism etc. I'm sure it won't be long before accusations of racism raise their head when immigration is discussed (a very tired and predictable way of killing debate).

I'll give my opinions on just one aspect of this issue, our security, one last time and then wait for the referendum:

European borders have become porous, allowing more and more extremists to flow through. Many of these find their way into Britain one way or another. We are facing a huge security threat from radical Islam, possibly our biggest threat since World War 2. Many European police forces, particularly the French, have a terrible reputation for inept investigation of Cultural crimes such as honour killings etc.
It's absolutely the right thing to want to help refugees, but unfortunately many of those migrants flooding into Europe are either economic migrants or jihadists or economic migrants with, at least, extreme views. As was the case in Germany on New Years Eve, many migrants live by different values to the people in the West. A new Interpol report estimates that there are now 5,000 jihadists on Britain's doorstep.
This is thought to be a very conservative figure and imo Europe is sitting on a time bomb!
There is every chance that terrorist attacks will rise and rise in Europe, including here.

We have many home-grown extremists here of course, but why increase the risks by putting our faith in Europe's borders and police forces?

I must be clear and say that I am not against immigration and I am of the opinion that our Country has been enriched by migrants who have settled here. We have a long history of mixed races going back to the Vikings, the Normans and Anglo-Saxons. We are a diverse and incredibly tolerant people imo.

However, the time has come to completely regain control of our borders. Brussels and Strasbourg have been worse than useless in protecting Europe's borders. NATO has kept the peace in Europe and will continue to do so. We must support NATO and get the hell out of the EU while we can.

Suffice to say that I will be voting to leave as a matter of principal. I believe that we can never be a truly sovereign Country whilst being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels etc.

This is the biggest vote of my lifetime imo.

If I could do anything to get England back to what Col deserves I would stand and fight with him but it's ruined the power has long left these beautiful shores
I am not laughing at any of this
I agree with Col this is serious stuff