Off Topic The Politics Thread

[GoldhawkRoad]

Time for me to bow out of the EU debate I think.
As Stan said previously, all that will happen is the same people making the same points. Also, I can see the way the debate could be heading, with insinuations of jingoism etc. I'm sure it won't be long before accusations of racism raise their head when immigration is discussed (a very tired and predictable way of killing debate).

I'll give my opinions on just one aspect of this issue, our security, one last time and then wait for the referendum:

European borders have become porous, allowing more and more extremists to flow through. Many of these find their way into Britain one way or another. We are facing a huge security threat from radical Islam, possibly our biggest threat since World War 2. Many European police forces, particularly the French, have a terrible reputation for inept investigation of Cultural crimes such as honour killings etc.
It's absolutely the right thing to want to help refugees, but unfortunately many of those migrants flooding into Europe are either economic migrants or jihadists or economic migrants with, at least, extreme views. As was the case in Germany on New Years Eve, many migrants live by different values to the people in the West. A new Interpol report estimates that there are now 5,000 jihadists on Britain's doorstep.
This is thought to be a very conservative figure and imo Europe is sitting on a time bomb!
There is every chance that terrorist attacks will rise and rise in Europe, including here.

We have many home-grown extremists here of course, but why increase the risks by putting our faith in Europe's borders and police forces?

I must be clear and say that I am not against immigration and I am of the opinion that our Country has been enriched by migrants who have settled here. We have a long history of mixed races going back to the Vikings, the Normans and Anglo-Saxons. We are a diverse and incredibly tolerant people imo.

However, the time has come to completely regain control of our borders. Brussels and Strasbourg have been worse than useless in protecting Europe's borders. NATO has kept the peace in Europe and will continue to do so. We must support NATO and get the hell out of the EU while we can.

Suffice to say that I will be voting to leave as a matter of principal. I believe that we can never be a truly sovereign Country whilst being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels etc.

This is the biggest vote of my lifetime imo.

Great post, Col.

 

[Deleted 1]

Time for me to bow out of the EU debate I think.
As Stan said previously, all that will happen is the same people making the same points. Also, I can see the way the debate could be heading, with insinuations of jingoism etc. I'm sure it won't be long before accusations of racism raise their head when immigration is discussed (a very tired and predictable way of killing debate).

I'll give my opinions on just one aspect of this issue, our security, one last time and then wait for the referendum:

European borders have become porous, allowing more and more extremists to flow through. Many of these find their way into Britain one way or another. We are facing a huge security threat from radical Islam, possibly our biggest threat since World War 2. Many European police forces, particularly the French, have a terrible reputation for inept investigation of Cultural crimes such as honour killings etc.
It's absolutely the right thing to want to help refugees, but unfortunately many of those migrants flooding into Europe are either economic migrants or jihadists or economic migrants with, at least, extreme views. As was the case in Germany on New Years Eve, many migrants live by different values to the people in the West. A new Interpol report estimates that there are now 5,000 jihadists on Britain's doorstep.
This is thought to be a very conservative figure and imo Europe is sitting on a time bomb!
There is every chance that terrorist attacks will rise and rise in Europe, including here.

We have many home-grown extremists here of course, but why increase the risks by putting our faith in Europe's borders and police forces?

I must be clear and say that I am not against immigration and I am of the opinion that our Country has been enriched by migrants who have settled here. We have a long history of mixed races going back to the Vikings, the Normans and Anglo-Saxons. We are a diverse and incredibly tolerant people imo.

However, the time has come to completely regain control of our borders. Brussels and Strasbourg have been worse than useless in protecting Europe's borders. NATO has kept the peace in Europe and will continue to do so. We must support NATO and get the hell out of the EU while we can.

Suffice to say that I will be voting to leave as a matter of principal. I believe that we can never be a truly sovereign Country whilst being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels etc.

This is the biggest vote of my lifetime imo.

I want to stay in but agree with much of what you say in terms of how the debate will play out - not necessarily on here but certainly across the country. Most no voters aren't rabid racists and equally I would like to think most yes voters are not betraying their birth right (and I know you never said that!)
This issue is too important for cheap playground talk and deserves a proper level headed debate. I am not holding my breath...

 

[cor blymie]

I think we can all agree the EU is not perfect. I'm voting out, but like rangercol, pointless going over the same arguments, just ends up getting nasty

 

[sb_73]

First poll since the events of last week and drawing up of lines over here.

38% Brexit
37% stay
25% undecided

Only 121 days of propaganda, generalisations, stereotyping, oversimplification, ignorance, downright lying and divisiveness to go.

 

[TWGWTDT]

Shouldn't get nasty if we look at it as Humans IMO
We have little choice anyway as it will just be one big Circus
Money again will rule everything
I will vote to stay in not because I flirt with a Mediterranean life style but for my farming heritage as the UK on its own will not look after them and on the whole now people don't care where their food comes from ... They pretend they do and many are great and support local trade but the masses don't
In Europe the farmers are powerful as they should be
I know two people now in my English social circle who grow things
In France I don't know two people in my village who don't grow something
In England pubs are now mini supermarkets stocked 24hrs a day
In France I have 6 fresh markets a week within 15km all cheaper and better from the country that invented hyper markets

Whatever happens I know for the sake of my three lads I have made a good choice for them, have no debts at all and have supplied them with roofs over their heads going forward that hasn't entrapped me into a false life.

 

[Chaz]

First poll since the events of last week and drawing up of lines over here.

38% Brexit
37% stay
25% undecided

Only 121 days of propaganda, generalisations, stereotyping, oversimplification, ignorance, downright lying and divisiveness to go.

Poll in the Daily Mail has it:

51% Stay
39% Brexit
10% undecided

Worth noting that the DM's official line appears to be very much to leave.

 

[TimPR78]

Poll in the Daily Mail has it:

51% Stay
39% Brexit
10% undecided

Worth noting that the DM's official line appears to be very much to leave.

Did the Mail then ask what would Princess Di have done ???

 

[finglasqpr]

Time for me to bow out of the EU debate I think.
As Stan said previously, all that will happen is the same people making the same points. Also, I can see the way the debate could be heading, with insinuations of jingoism etc. I'm sure it won't be long before accusations of racism raise their head when immigration is discussed (a very tired and predictable way of killing debate).

I'll give my opinions on just one aspect of this issue, our security, one last time and then wait for the referendum:

European borders have become porous, allowing more and more extremists to flow through. Many of these find their way into Britain one way or another. We are facing a huge security threat from radical Islam, possibly our biggest threat since World War 2. Many European police forces, particularly the French, have a terrible reputation for inept investigation of Cultural crimes such as honour killings etc.
It's absolutely the right thing to want to help refugees, but unfortunately many of those migrants flooding into Europe are either economic migrants or jihadists or economic migrants with, at least, extreme views. As was the case in Germany on New Years Eve, many migrants live by different values to the people in the West. A new Interpol report estimates that there are now 5,000 jihadists on Britain's doorstep.
This is thought to be a very conservative figure and imo Europe is sitting on a time bomb!
There is every chance that terrorist attacks will rise and rise in Europe, including here.

We have many home-grown extremists here of course, but why increase the risks by putting our faith in Europe's borders and police forces?

I must be clear and say that I am not against immigration and I am of the opinion that our Country has been enriched by migrants who have settled here. We have a long history of mixed races going back to the Vikings, the Normans and Anglo-Saxons. We are a diverse and incredibly tolerant people imo.

However, the time has come to completely regain control of our borders. Brussels and Strasbourg have been worse than useless in protecting Europe's borders. NATO has kept the peace in Europe and will continue to do so. We must support NATO and get the hell out of the EU while we can.

Suffice to say that I will be voting to leave as a matter of principal. I believe that we can never be a truly sovereign Country whilst being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels etc.

This is the biggest vote of my lifetime imo.

I disagree with you slightly there Col. I think the UK's membership of the EU is not the biggest threat to your security. I think it is your membership of NATO and your involvement in the Iraq war which is what triggered the current unrest in Iraq and Syria. The UK and other countries who participated in that war have been subjected to terrorist attacks also, France and Spain come to mind. Lots of other EU countries who didn't participate in the Iraq war have not been subjected to terrorist attacks, ourselves for example. The jihadists you mention want to enter Britain to carry out more attacks because of the invasion of Iraq not because of your membership of the EU.

 

[TWGWTDT]

It's naive to think that any terror cell wanting to come to Britain won't do so easily in or out of the EU

Leaving the EU will be about money nothing else

 

[QPR999]

I disagree with you slightly there Col. I think the UK's membership of the EU is not the biggest threat to your security. I think it is your membership of NATO and your involvement in the Iraq war which is what triggered the current unrest in Iraq and Syria. The UK and other countries who participated in that war have been subjected to terrorist attacks also, France and Spain come to mind. Lots of other EU countries who didn't participate in the Iraq war have not been subjected to terrorist attacks, ourselves for example. The jihadists you mention want to enter Britain to carry out more attacks because of the invasion of Iraq not because of your membership of the EU.

I suppose they've conveniently forgotten about Bosnia then?

 

[finglasqpr]

I suppose they've conveniently forgotten about Bosnia then?

Please elaborate.

 

[QPR999]

Please elaborate.

If you consider that these attacks are in essence a retaliation against the west for their involvement in Iraq. What they are saying is that their attacks on us are revenge for the killing of their muslim brothers. The very reason that nutter who killed Lee Rigby gave after he cowardly slaughtered him. He seems to have conveniently forgotten that it was people like Lee Rigby who saved many muslims from the genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo.

 

[TimPR78]

If you consider that these attacks are in essence a retaliation against the west for their involvement in Iraq. What they are saying is that their attacks on us are revenge for the killing of their muslim brothers. The very reason that nutter who killed Lee Rigby gave after he cowardly slaughtered him. He seems to have conveniently forgotten that it was people like Lee Rigby who saved many muslims from the genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Not like religtards to disregard facts is it ?

 

[Chaz]

Not like religtards to disregard facts is it ?

Nothing to do with religion of any kind. All to do with being a murderous psychopath.

 

[finglasqpr]

If you consider that these attacks are in essence a retaliation against the west for their involvement in Iraq. What they are saying is that their attacks on us are revenge for the killing of their muslim brothers. The very reason that nutter who killed Lee Rigby gave after he cowardly slaughtered him. He seems to have conveniently forgotten that it was people like Lee Rigby who saved many muslims from the genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Yes I agree. The killing of Lee Rigby was cowardly and totally wrong. The NATO forces who went into Bosnia saved many thousands of Bosnian Muslims and also Bosnian Croats from being slaughtered. It wasn't just Muslims they saved. The only problem was, the Serbs had already massacred thousands in the years before NATO stepped in.

 

[TimPR78]

Nothing to do with religion of any kind. All to do with being a murderous psychopath.

They base their hatred on a version of religion, granted it might be warped to fit anothers agenda who uses these people hence me calling them religtards rather than the religious, but a lot of these sheep believe they are doing it in the name of their version of a sky fairy.

 

[Chaz]

Any reason for the deliberate use of the provocative terms though? You could easily say 'the name of their god' without deliberately trying to inflame responses. There's no need, you can surely make your point without this?

 

[TimPR78]

Any reason for the deliberate use of the provocative terms though? You could easily say 'the name of their god' without deliberately trying to inflame responses. There's no need, you can surely make your point without this?

Sorry if the terms offend, not really my intension but to use 'god/allah/odin' in my eyes is me recognizing/validating a deity existing or even just a plausible concept of existence, which I refuse to do without evidence to back it up.

 

[sb_73]

I'd like to have El Pirata's view of this. From what I have read organised religion (Serbian Orthodox and Croatian Catholocism) seemed to play a very big role in the nationalist agendas rife at the time. 'Ethnic cleansing ' was the same thing as 'religious cleansing' as ethnicity was judged by religion. Begovic is a surname in Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian, all the local populations are Slavs with some mixture of Turk etc in some cases. The main way of telling them apart is religion.

 

[Chaz]

Sorry if the terms offend, not really my intension but to use 'god/allah/odin' in my eyes is me recognizing/validating a deity existing or even just a plausible concept of existence, which I refuse to do without evidence to back it up.

Use of 'god' (small g) rather than 'God' (big G) is fine, I think nobody here would misunderstand you. It's simply that the term you used is one that I always find particularly offensive. And we've been through the 'evidence' argument before - faith and science are two very different aspects of humanity, and there's no real common ground to argue for either. You can't apply scientific research methods to explain faith, and you can't use faith based reasoning to explain science.

What I will agree on - as I have stated before - is that when people like Lee Rigby's killers claim they are acting in the name of a particular religion, this is nonsense. What they are doing is hanging their psychopathic violent natures on the peg of an unrelated and peaceful faith, and using it as justification for their acts. When in reality they are simply murderers.